Portable HD radios later this year

[Mike Walker]

There's a great article in the new Radio World about a chip NOT MANUFACTURED OR CONTRACTED BY Ibiquity that will be out later this year. This chip will bring HD to portable devices, as it includes AM and FM analog AND HD Digital decoding on a device about the size of a fingernail, and using ONE TENTH the power of existing HD decoders.

So much for the argument that there will "NEVER BE PORTABLE HD RADIOS, they consume too much power". A Radio World editorial bemoaned the lack of portable HD a few weeks ago. They say in this article that they were (pleasantly) surprised to see it THIS quickly. Most thought it was a year to a year and a half away. Not true! It looks like second half of '07! The chips are a reality, and work just fine. All that remains is to ramp up production, and stick 'em in some radios! Preferably teenie-weenie ones

 

[Mike Walker]

I knew folks here would eventually yell at me for not posting a link to this story, so I have tried (in vain) to find it online. It will probably be on RW's site in a few days (they're still headlining stuff from the last issue). The company making the low power HD chip is SiPort, based in the Silicon Valley. They are a member of the NRSC (National Radio Standards Committee), and a semiconductor manufacturer. That's about all the info I've got so far...at least from the web.

I can't legally scan the RW story and put it here, so you're on your own. Pick up RW, or do a lil' research online (and post here whatever you find, please). Maybe you'll have better luck. Kind of makes my point...NOT EVERYTHING CAN BE ILLUSTRATED WITH A WEB LINK!

 

[700WLW]

There's a great article in the new Radio World about a chip NOT MANUFACTURED OR CONTRACTED BY Ibiquity that will be out later this year. This chip will bring HD to portable devices, as it includes AM and FM analog AND HD Digital decoding on a device about the size of a fingernail, and using ONE TENTH the power of existing HD decoders.

So much for the argument that there will "NEVER BE PORTABLE HD RADIOS, they consume too much power". A Radio World editorial bemoaned the lack of portable HD a few weeks ago. They say in this article that they were (pleasantly) surprised to see it THIS quickly. Most thought it was a year to a year and a half away. Not true! It looks like second half of '07! The chips are a reality, and work just fine. All that remains is to ramp up production, and stick 'em in some radios! Preferably teenie-weenie ones

"Desperately Seeking Portable HD"

"When Will We See Handheld HD Radios? Don't Hold Your Breath... So it is with great irony that while the handheld receiver provides perhaps the strongest argument for the value of HD Radio's multipath immunity, such a device remains just out of reach due to battery-life constraints. As a result, the lack of handheld HD Radio receivers - at least for the next few years - will keep the fledgling technology from becoming a player in the increasingly important portable audio industry. Given the strength and projected growth of that sector, this absence could have significant impact on HD Radio's success, as well as to the radio industry's overall relevance to future audiences."

http://www.rwonline.com/pages/s.0054/t.359.html

"Bringing HD Radio to the Masses"

"Designing, building and testing these systems and the other circuit blocks will be very challenging," Ma said. "For one thing, we don't have a lot of publications and earlier work to refer to because this is fundamental research in a new area. So, basically, we just have to explore this for ourselves."

http://uanews.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/UANews.woa/wa/MainStoryDetails?ArticleID=13525

"RW Opinion: I Want My Portable HD" 1.17.2007

"So it appears that new HD receiver designs optimized for portable use from the ground up (both in size and power requirements) are required. Appropriate chipsets may get to market later this year. This implies that we may see the first portable HD receivers on the shelves sometime in 2008, with reasonably priced models possibly available for holiday 2009 buying. Meanwhile, of course, battery technology also continues to improve, and Ibiquity reportedly has put portable receiver development high on its priority list. All this is good news, but the timing is still worrisome. Portable HD devices need to get to market soon. Without them, the entire HD Radio transition is at risk."

http://www.rwonline.com/pages/s.0044/t.774.html

Where is the link ? Searching the entire RW site for "portable HD Radio", this was the latest article, dated 1/17/2007.

 

[Mike Walker]

No Einstein, this ISN'T the latest article. Radio World is a newspaper. You know...NEWSPAPER...ink and paper. Their website is peripheral to PUBLICATION. I said it's in their latest ISSUE, not online!

The article is on Page 22 of the March 1st issue...available NOW (at NEWSSTANDS and to subscribers). There's a lag between when they publish, and when items are available online.

 

[clouseau]

There's a great article in the new Radio World about a chip NOT MANUFACTURED OR CONTRACTED BY Ibiquity that will be out later this year. This chip will bring HD to portable devices, as it includes AM and FM analog AND HD Digital decoding on a device about the size of a fingernail, and using ONE TENTH the power of existing HD decoders.

So much for the argument that there will "NEVER BE PORTABLE HD RADIOS, they consume too much power". A Radio World editorial bemoaned the lack of portable HD a few weeks ago. They say in this article that they were (pleasantly) surprised to see it THIS quickly. Most thought it was a year to a year and a half away. Not true! It looks like second half of '07! The chips are a reality, and work just fine. All that remains is to ramp up production, and stick 'em in some radios! Preferably teenie-weenie ones

"Desperately Seeking Portable HD"

"When Will We See Handheld HD Radios? Don't Hold Your Breath... So it is with great irony that while the handheld receiver provides perhaps the strongest argument for the value of HD Radio's multipath immunity, such a device remains just out of reach due to battery-life constraints. As a result, the lack of handheld HD Radio receivers - at least for the next few years - will keep the fledgling technology from becoming a player in the increasingly important portable audio industry. Given the strength and projected growth of that sector, this absence could have significant impact on HD Radio's success, as well as to the radio industry's overall relevance to future audiences."

http://www.rwonline.com/pages/s.0054/t.359.html

"Bringing HD Radio to the Masses"

"Designing, building and testing these systems and the other circuit blocks will be very challenging," Ma said. "For one thing, we don't have a lot of publications and earlier work to refer to because this is fundamental research in a new area. So, basically, we just have to explore this for ourselves."

http://uanews.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/UANews.woa/wa/MainStoryDetails?ArticleID=13525

"RW Opinion: I Want My Portable HD" 1.17.2007

"So it appears that new HD receiver designs optimized for portable use from the ground up (both in size and power requirements) are required. Appropriate chipsets may get to market later this year. This implies that we may see the first portable HD receivers on the shelves sometime in 2008, with reasonably priced models possibly available for holiday 2009 buying. Meanwhile, of course, battery technology also continues to improve, and Ibiquity reportedly has put portable receiver development high on its priority list. All this is good news, but the timing is still worrisome. Portable HD devices need to get to market soon. Without them, the entire HD Radio transition is at risk."

http://www.rwonline.com/pages/s.0044/t.774.html

Where is the link ? Searching the entire RW site for "portable HD Radio", this was the latest article, dated 1/17/2007.

The final line of the article IN THE MAGAZINE states...

"On Balance, the SiPort development should be a strong and groundbreaking development for US digital radio broadcasting, enablingcost effective HD radio delivery to portable digital audio systems and potentiallyto a whole new class of personal data devices. Watch for it's ultimate impact over the coming months."

Considering this is Pizzi AGAIN only a month later, it's pretty telling.

Clouseau

 

[700WLW]

We will have to see, whether this is just more hot-air, by The Cartel, or not - at this point, it is vapor-ware. It is funny, how all these manufacturers keep buidling all these HD radios, but no one is interested. Also, Apple has already chosen RDS-FM for the iPod, so there is one huge opportunity lost. Questions remain, of the lousy reception and poor programming for HD Radio. There is no convincing argument, in favor of HD Radio, in trumping the purchases of cheap $10 analog AM/FM radios. At this point, consumer-interest in HD Radio is dead:

"Sirius, XM, and HD: Consumer interest reality check"

"While interest in satellite radio is diminishing, interest in HD shows no signs of a pulse."

http://www.hear2.com/2007/02/sirius_xm_and_h.html#comments

 

[Chuck]

Working prototypes of radios with this chip have been demonstrated. The same chip also receives L-Band in countries that use that system, so this one "universal dab" chip should work pretty much around the world. It's the real deal, and should be manufactured in large enough numbers to ensure economy of scale.

Since it is software dependent, it is likely that it will decode FMExtra as well.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Working prototypes of radios with this chip have been demonstrated. The same chip also receives L-Band in countries that use that system, so this one "universal dab" chip should work pretty much around the world. It's the real deal, and should be manufactured in large enough numbers to ensure economy of scale.

Since it is software dependent, it is likely that it will decode FMExtra as well.

Then it is not just an iBiquity/HD radio chip at all, but a software defined Digital Signal Processor for radio that can pretty much decode DRM, WI-FI, WiMax, FMeXtra, and just about everything else, worldwide. So much for HD radio being some kind of "defacto standard".

 

[moderator7]

Some posts have been moved to TIO:


http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,64374.0.html

 

[700WLW]

Working prototypes of radios with this chip have been demonstrated. The same chip also receives L-Band in countries that use that system, so this one "universal dab" chip should work pretty much around the world. It's the real deal, and should be manufactured in large enough numbers to ensure economy of scale.

Since it is software dependent, it is likely that it will decode FMExtra as well.

Then it is not just an iBiquity/HD radio chip at all, but a software defined Digital Signal Processor for radio that can pretty much decode DRM, WI-FI, WiMax, FMeXtra, and just about everything else, worldwide. So much for HD radio being some kind of "defacto standard".

"Bringing HD Radio to the Masses" 1.27.2007

"The big challenge is large-system integration because we have to address the noise problem, Chowdhury added. By its very nature, DSP is very noisy, but analog is very sensitive to noise. So we have to combine the DSP and the analog signal processing on the same chip without the DSP noise compromising the analog performance. That is where a lot of our research will be focused... Designing, building and testing these systems and the other circuit blocks will be very challenging, Ma said. For one thing, we don't have a lot of publications and earlier work to refer to because this is fundamental research in a new area. So, basically, we just have to explore this for ourselves."

http://uanews.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/UANews.woa/wa/MainStoryDetails?ArticleID=13525

From the snippet above, we can see, that building a LP HD chip is going to be very challenging, partly due to the noise factor. Now, is SiPort working on the same thing - where does SiPort fit in ? Has TI already determined that this is not practical ? Apple only included RDS-FM for the iPod, with no AM., as I'm assuming, due to the noise factor. What gives - is iNiquity paying two companies to build the same thing ? And another big question - with HD radios requiring loop and dipole antennas, how is HD reception going to be possible in iPod-type devices ?

 

[Mike Walker]

This chip will have no impact on HD radio beocming the "De-facto standard". That's already happened. Tried to buy another type of terrestrial digital radio in the US? Good luck! What this chip does is answer all of the OTHER concerns voiced here...desire for Wi-Max, etc...and future expandability. This is WAY cool...even if you don't use your device for HD. I WILL BUY a device with this chip in it, unless it's so poorly designed as to be useless. Hell, I might even buy it then if it's reasonably cheap! That's a confession, by the way. I WILL BUY RADIO CRAP if it's cheap!

 

[700WLW]

Anyone, feel like taking-a-stab, at reply #9 ?

 

[SUPERCASTER]

This chip will have no impact on HD radio beocming the "De-facto standard". That's already happened.(See #1)
Tried to buy another type of terrestrial digital radio in the US? Good luck! (See #2) What this chip does is answer all of the OTHER concerns voiced here...desire for Wi-Max, etc...and future expandability. This is WAY cool...even if you don't use your device for HD. (See #3)
I WILL BUY a device with this chip in it, unless it's so poorly designed as to be useless. Hell, I might even buy it then if it's reasonably cheap! That's a confession, by the way. I WILL BUY RADIO CRAP if it's cheap! (See #4)

#1-Only interim FCC approval and experimental status for multicasting does not, a "de-facto standard" make.

#2-No problem:
From Chuck-

Here is a quick web page with pictures: http://www.chalkhillmedia.org/kzqx/fmextra.htm

#3-Good idea, don't use it for HD.

#4-You already did, it's called HD radio.

 

[EasyPeazy]

Anyone, feel like taking-a-stab, at reply #9 ?

Sure.

1) There's no such thing as "RDS-FM" there is just RDS. That's the name of the spec.

2) If you had actually read the article Mike Walker referenced, you would already know iBiquity didn't commission SiPort to develop anything. SiPort apparently sees the potential to make a great deal of money and decided to build a chip compatible with the NRSC-5a standard. Afterward they licensed the HDC HD Radio codec and HD Radio logo from iBiquity.

3) TI decided to engage in a similar effort - again, with no prompting I've read about from iBiquity.

SiPort and TI both smell money in HD Radio. It's that simple.

 

[Mike Walker]

Exactly, Easy. That's the encouraing thing about this chip...it ain't from Ibiquity. They had nothing to do with it's design or (eventual) manufacture. So much for the "cartel" theories!

 

[700WLW]

Anyone, feel like taking-a-stab, at reply #9 ?

Sure.

1) There's no such thing as "RDS-FM" there is just RDS. That's the name of the spec.

2) If you had actually read the article Mike Walker referenced, you would already know iBiquity didn't commission SiPort to develop anything. SiPort apparently sees the potential to make a great deal of money and decided to build a chip compatible with the NRSC-5a standard. Afterward they licensed the HDC HD Radio codec and HD Radio logo from iBiquity.

3) TI decided to engage in a similar effort - again, with no prompting I've read about from iBiquity.

SiPort and TI both smell money in HD Radio. It's that simple.

"What is RDS ? A Brief Introduction to RDS (Radio Data System for VHF/FM broadcasting)"

"The use of more and more frequencies for radio programmes in the VHF/FM range make it inceasingly difficult to tune a conventional radio to a desired programme. This kind of difficulty is solved with the Radio Data System, that has been on the market since 1987, and whose spectacular evolution is still continuing. Now in 2006 the forecast is that each year more than 100 million new RDS radios will be sold worldwide. RDS has by now conquered all receiver price classes and one can easily imagine that it will soon be part of the standard equipment of any radio receiver."

And look, it does all the texting and traffic-alert information, that HD/IBOC does !

"RDS FM Transmitter/Car Charger for iPod®"

"While listening to your iPod®, see the song and artist's name displayed on your car stereo using our patent-pending RDS FM Transmitter/Car Charger for iPod."

http://us.kensington.com/html/11206.html

And look, the iPod has RDS, but no HD/IBOC ! And, what do I see in the title, "RDS FM" !

And, you still didn't address the other questions, that I posted, in reply #9 !

 

[EasyPeazy]

Anyone, feel like taking-a-stab, at reply #9 ?

Sure.

1) There's no such thing as "RDS-FM" there is just RDS. That's the name of the spec.

2) If you had actually read the article Mike Walker referenced, you would already know iBiquity didn't commission SiPort to develop anything. SiPort apparently sees the potential to make a great deal of money and decided to build a chip compatible with the NRSC-5a standard. Afterward they licensed the HDC HD Radio codec and HD Radio logo from iBiquity.

3) TI decided to engage in a similar effort - again, with no prompting I've read about from iBiquity.

SiPort and TI both smell money in HD Radio. It's that simple.

"What is RDS ? A Brief Introduction to RDS (Radio Data System for VHF/FM broadcasting)"

"The use of more and more frequencies for radio programmes in the VHF/FM range make it inceasingly difficult to tune a conventional radio to a desired programme. This kind of difficulty is solved with the Radio Data System, that has been on the market since 1987, and whose spectacular evolution is still continuing. Now in 2006 the forecast is that each year more than 100 million new RDS radios will be sold worldwide. RDS has by now conquered all receiver price classes and one can easily imagine that it will soon be part of the standard equipment of any radio receiver."

And look, it does all the texting and traffic-alert information, that HD/IBOC does !

"RDS FM Transmitter/Car Charger for iPod®"

"While listening to your iPod®, see the song and artist's name displayed on your car stereo using our patent-pending RDS FM Transmitter/Car Charger for iPod."

http://us.kensington.com/html/11206.html

And look, the iPod has RDS, but no HD/IBOC ! And, what do I see in the title, "RDS FM" !

And, you still didn't address the other questions, that I posted, in reply #9 !

It's not "RDS FM" or "RDS-FM" as you're prone to saying, it's an "RDS FM Transmitter..." In other words, an FM transmitter with RDS. Duh.

And gee - no iPod with HD yet? Isn't that what this whole thread was about before you derailed it with your usual BS?

The chipset that will eventually power an HD Radio / iPod device is just coming out of development.

Do you suppose TI and others might be developing these chips because they see them ending up in iPod-like devices or actual iPods? Do you suppose their development might have been at the request of a company like Apple or Microsoft? Microsoft would be an especially likely candidate given their recent deal with Clear Channel HD stations.

Hmmm... Maybe the widespread consumer demand for HD won't come from the automakers after all - it may end up in next generations iPods first.