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It seems that the only marketing that Entercom does for
WBEN occurs on this forum. One imbecile listener and one
desperate salesman spewing gibberish is all they've got.
They can't even spell the headline of this thread correctly.
In the Fact Free Universe of WBEN - Ignorance is Bliss...
WBEN occurs on this forum. One imbecile listener and one
desperate salesman spewing gibberish is all they've got.
They can't even spell the headline of this thread correctly.
In the Fact Free Universe of WBEN - Ignorance is Bliss...
He did use the word "sybdication".
Hmmmm...maybe it was some subconscious thing relating to the sybian, especially considering the tingle those two propaganists clearly give him.
See: Howard Stern Show
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Buddy Shula
Guest
Desperate salesman?? Let's compare paychecks dude. Seriously, that is not a nice thing to say. It is obvious you are jealous by the success of the new show. I have no idea what planet you are living on, but in the planet I live on, at the company I work for, this show is the talk of the town. These are 2 brilliant radio innovators, who have a loyal, trusting audience. Not sure who you are, but my guess is that you have been knocked out of the industry you love, or demoted somehow, and are jealous of people's success. I hate to say that, but I think it's true. That fact that you call me desperate is very incorrect. Then, you question the marketing Entercom does?? They don't need to market the show or the station. It's already great. You should take a little advice from some people who are actively engaged and have been in our industry for 35 years...people like me. Or people who have won national awards for their show, like Tom, who is a radio icon.
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Buddy Shula
Guest
You keep using the Neilson crap. Please explain your methodology on how 7 out of 8 listeners don't even listen once per week. WTF are you talking about? Are you saying that nobody listens to WBEN? Please explain to me, and I will privately send you a list of million dollar advertisers who get huge listener response from the station.
Somebody, for all his years in the biz and stellar paychecks, seems to not understand the concept of "AQH share".
Don't dare show him the actual ratings share, he'll become apoplectic.
Donald Trump in training perhaps? Definitely has the grandiose delusion thing down.
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dand5780
Guest
You seriously aren't comparing those stations to WBEN, are you? Let's go step by step. First of all, people listen to WBEN for (not fake) news and talk.
In Rochester
WXXI - had to look that up, NPR station. Enough said.
WHAM - I am a WHAM listener as well as a WBEN listener. Buffalo and Rochester are, of course, close to each other. Would someone in Lockport only listen to WLVL and not WBEN? No, you listen to WBEN as well because it's a better station. WHAM has, many of the same syndicated shows. But it is not only a news and talk station, but also a sports station. So if you aren't interested in games, or sports talk, you might turn to WBEN. Also, they only for the most part have one live local talk show on WHAM (Lonsberry) where WBEN has Beach, Bauerle & Bellavia, Hardline, and The Financial Guys.
WYSL - appears to be no local shows and all a few steps below the national shows of WBEN/WHAM.
Toronto, and Southern Ontario listeners to WBEN say they listen to WBEN simply because there is no truth to the stations in Canada. In fact, there are SO MANY Canadian callers that the Buffalo callers question why they take so many Canadian callers.
The scoreboard shows that WBEN failed as an FM simulcast.
The ratings DECLINED with a second signal.
Entercom gave up and realised the format cannot grow.
WBEN listeners are almost entirely old white men.
That's not going to change. Sorry to burst your myopic bubble,
but most people don't worship WBEN.
If the people at Entercom think that ratings are "fake",
perhaps they should stop subscribing...
The ratings DECLINED with a second signal.
Entercom gave up and realised the format cannot grow.
WBEN listeners are almost entirely old white men.
That's not going to change. Sorry to burst your myopic bubble,
but most people don't worship WBEN.
If the people at Entercom think that ratings are "fake",
perhaps they should stop subscribing...
Funny you should say that. Yesterday you said the AP is doing fake news. Guess who is now reporting their story?
http://www.wben.com/AP-Exclusive-DHS-weighed-Nat-Guard-for-immigration/23019208
So maybe it's not fake. And it's not. The AP showed the actual memo, signed by the DHS Secretary. So it was approved policy.
About Canada: Does WBEN show up in the Numeris ratings books for the Toronto, Hamilton and St. Catharines/Niagara markets? Methinks you're overstating the impact WBEN is having on Canadian markets. (Spoiler alert: There ISN'T any.)
About Rochester: With WHAM, you seem to forget that they also have live & local mornings as well as sports talk in early evenings(and an hour of Kimberly & Beck from their sister station Radio 95.1). And....excuse me, but Glenn Beck is a few steps below the other national shows?
WBEN in Fall cumed 141,000 persons. Out of the total 12+ population of Buffalo, that's roughly one person out of eight who ever listens to WBEN in the course of a week.
"Cume" is the estimated number of total persons 12+ or in a specific demographic who listen to a particular station once a week.
6 people out of every 8 are listening to something else. One person is not listening to the radio.
At any given time, out of every 100 actual radio listeners, 8 are listening to WBEN. The other 92 are listening to something else. At the same time, more are listening to WYRK and WBLK, and almost as many listening to WGRF, WHTT and WTSS. In AM, more 25-54 year olds are listening to WGR.
So WBEN is definitely in the top tier. But it has lots of company. It has its best results in 55+, but in younger demos, like 18-34 it is 13th in the market. It also does a lot better with men than women, so the biggest audience is men over 55. It does not get practically any ethnic listening, so, further, the biggest listener group is old white men over 55.
This is not a "dominant" station except in 55+ and even 65+. It is a significant player, but not the most important one in audience size and... for the future... not a in a growth format.
You really need to stop shooting the messenger. Nielsen is not "crap" as the concept of statistical sampling is totally valid. Even the US Census uses it 9 years out of every 10! Yes, sampling has a margin of error, but in areas... like radio... where absolute numbers are not required (I can sell an 8.3 as well as an 8.5 as well as a 7.9), sampling is the only way of getting a handle on audience size.
I'll bet your superiors at Entercom spend a lot of time looking at the ratings for WBEN to see if the return on the investment in salaries is justified for each show. And they probably conclude each meeting with "and who's going to explain this to Buddy, because he still does not get it..."
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All of us in sales management have had sellers like Buddy. As long as there are clients who buy based on relationships and as long as we give these relationship sellers a good product to sell they will be valued members of the staff.
The key thing about talk, from a sales perspective, is people listen to what is being said. There aren't a lot of distractions to what is being said. That's a good sales environment. Same with sports talk. They're paying attention to the people who are talking, and what they're saying. Not tapping their foot to a beat. Very different experience.
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Buddy Shula
Guest
Again, your Neilson methodology has nothing to do with advertiser results. Zero. BTW, I just looked at the Fall book. AQH persons 12 plus, WBEN is the 3rd ranked station. Adults 55 plus, it is #1. The only other stations on AM in the top seven of 55 plus are WGR and WECK. In an old city like Buffalo, I will take the 55 plus crowd anyway. Far more than the younger demo. This is an age group that will be around at least another 10 years, plus they love and are loyal to AM radio. By the way, with the new FCC chairman, AM radio will have a lot of great options very soon. I was talking to the president of a major bank the other day and he said that he banks advertises only to 55 plus, because as he said "millennial do not have a pot to piss in" His words. Bottom line....if I am in Buffalo, and I want to do well from radio over the next 10 years, I will align myself with an older AM station any day! It is where the money is. Also, you say that WBEN reaches just one of every eight radio listeners....WTF is wrong with that?? IF I have a business, and someone told me that I can reach one out of 8 radio listeners in Buffalo, I'm in....dependent on the price of course
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Show us yours! I love a good pissing contest.
While the initial reaction to the show "on the inside" may be excellent, until you have some metric on the increases in audience size, what you are saying is just hyperbole. Your format has spent a decade in the 7 to 9 share range, meaning well over 90% of radio listeners are not paying any attention to them. And, if you look at rating rather than share, at any given time somewhere around 1% of the folks in Buffalo are listening to WBEN. The other 99 are not listening to over the air radio or are listening to your competitors.
That goes beyond hyperbole. Now you are BSing us. It's great that you believe in your product, but you are not going to sell us anything here. There is nothing innovative about doing a two person talk show. There is nothing innovative about talk shows at all, just clever twists, engaging personalities and interesting perspectives. But you and your station did not invent the wheel.
You are not the only person who has been in radio for 35 years. The problem is distinguishing between those who have 1 year's experience 35 times over and the those who have added to their knowledge each year, year after year.
Be sure to tell your clients that have been in business a long time and which have established names and reputations that they don't need to advertise any more because they are "already great". You will be well-loved for saving them so much money.
Not really. They're the same options you have right now. You can put your AM station on an FM translator or stream. Some owners are hoping the FCC will drop AM from the ownership cap, so companies can own more AMs in a market. But that doesn't help getting younger people to listen. The FCC isn't looking at doing anything to help the noise level or the frequency response of AM radio, and that's what's killing AM for younger listeners. Coupled with the fact that most of the air personalities are their parent's age.
Ratings are an estimate of audience size. And audience size is only one ingredient in the sales formula.
The recipient of an ad message must be receptive. That means they have to be paying attention, but more than that they have to be interested in the offer. If a soccer mom would never buy a pickup truck, no matter how engaged a listener to a station she is, she does not "hear" those ads.
The recipient must be "in the market" knowingly or not for the product or service being offered. If you just bought a car, you don't pay attention to car ads at all and will not act on any of them.
The recipient must have the money to make the purchase. This even applies to small items or purchases when listeners are on tight budgets.
The recipient often has to be convinced that a new "thing" is better than the one they habitually use or buy. Brand and product loyalty are hard to overcome.
The message must be addressed to the potential customer's needs. If improperly written, it will not sell. As one of the big agencies used to post in their offices, "It's not creative unless it sells".
The message must be understandable. Sometimes ads are so engaged in production hijinks that the message does not come through. And different consumers perceive things in different ways.
The prices have to be competitive and attractive. The retail locations have to be conventient. There has to be parking and security. The store or shop has to look nice and inviting. Etc., etc.
And so on. The medium is not the message. The medium must deliver consumers, but the advertiser's services have to be attractive. There are dozens of elements besides being on WBEN that make an ad campaign effective.
At least you are actually looking at the same book as I am.
Some love WBEN. Nobody "loves" AM radio. They listen because the station they like is there. But you are correct that your format and AM do have as much as another decade of successful operation ahead of them, and in cities where the average age is greater than the national norm (USA 36 years old, Buffalo 38) there is significant opportunity selling older demos.
Yes, if they can find a way to move more AM stations to FM, eliminate the requirement to keep AM transmitters on the air once a translator is obtained, etc. The rest depends on the laws of physics, and those can't be repealed.
I was rebutting your statements about "the whole town is talking about" your new afternoon show. If only about 15% of the whole market cumes the station ever, "the whole" anything is hyperbole.
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Buddy Shula
Guest
David, I am going to end this pissing contest. It is obvious you know the industry we live, and so do I. I work very hard every day to help advertisers get solutions to their marketing problems. I do not use ratings, I do not use metrics... I come up with ideas and present them to the clients and strategize based on my radio knowledge. I prefer to sell to the older, loyal, AM audience in Buffalo. I have been doing this consistently in sales for 20 years. Prior to that, I was only on air full time. I respect what you are saying, but I think we have different approaches. What matters, is that we both love radio.
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Buddy Shula
Guest
This is just dumb. Call me when you need a job in radio so I can deny you.
B
Buddy Shula
Guest
Sorry for the post. It was meant for flybynights idiot comment.
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