"Potential New Operator" For 98.7

[Barry]

Could customized Spanish A/C programming similar to “Juan” work in New York?
Nearby there are stations running this service in Poughkeepsie, and Danbury CT. Juan includes a considerable amount of soft Mexican music.

Juan
Juan, Poughkeepsie

 

[davideduardo]

Except as mentioned, Central and South Florida.

I've mentioned that more times than I can count: Migrants to Central Florida from Puerto Rico tend to be middle class looking for safety, better health care and higher incomes. Immigrants to Miami are refugees, mostly from the upper income and education classes, from nations with socialist governments like Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua, or ongoing unrest like Colombia, Ecuador and Perú.

 

[davideduardo]

Could customized Spanish A/C programming similar to “Juan” work in New York?
Nearby there are stations running this service in Poughkeepsie, and Danbury CT. Juan includes a considerable amount of soft Mexican music.

"Juan" is an updated version of HBC's "Recuerdo" from the early 2000's. It contains a lot of "romantic" (or as you say, "soft") regional Mexican music. That music has just about zero appeal to any other group.

What "Juan" and his friends really are is Mexican Regional music gold, with limits on the "bar songs" and up-tempo ones. In the different variants, there are more or less "compatible" ballads and pop songs that were very popular with "working class" people in Mexico.

In other words, this is a tempo-controlled format for persons from Mexico. A Puerto Rican or Dominican will have no use for this, and among Mexicans it is a "second tier" format after current based banda, norteña and their derivatives.

 

[Mrbiglott]

How about 98.7 JACK FM?

 

[TheBigA]

How about 98.7 JACK FM?

It exists in Victoria TX:

98.7 Jack FM – Playing What We Want – Victoria Music Radio

98.7 Jack FM Radio, a Townsquare Media station, plays the best Jack music in Victoria, Texas on KTXN-FM.

987jack.com

 

[Theater of My Mind]

The other part is that casual listeners don't care for the trade-off of music in exchange for commercials. They resent the interruptions, and prefer to get music from places where it's uninterrupted. That's why I say the future isn't in playing popular music supported by advertising.

You have stated this repeatedly here on this site. While I don't believe the whole radio industry can be painted with such a broad brush, I do agree with your assessment in principle.

There will probably always be room for some very mainstream, ad-supported music stations, but there certainly seems to be no growth in it anymore. With each passing year it gets easier for people to to use streaming apps instead of radio in vehicles as in-car entertainment systems continue to evolve. And, at the same time, the generation that grew up with music on the radio being a central part of their lives diminishes while the more tech savvy generations that have grown up in the streaming age grow.

So, your statement points to just a few possible solutions:

• Music stations changing to a non-commercial model
• Music stations changing to talk
• Music stations changing to some other concept, perhaps as yet untried

Which of these do you believe is the future then? Or is it something else?

 

[Weiserguy]

News flash: even those of us who grew up on ad-supported radio, and thought that it was the bee's knees (even though the poor bee didn't) have figured out how to use Spotify or SiriusXM. I use Spotify in ad mode, and I can live with 2 minutes of ads per half hour. If I used it more often, I'd pay the monthly fee and blow off the ads. It's not just the ads, but that I can choose what to play and what to blacklist. I also have a boatload of my own music on my phone, more than enough to listen to on a 9-hour flight from Puerto Rico to the West Coast (as I did three weeks ago) with no repeats. While there are luddites among the Boomer generation -- and even more of them among the pre-Boomers -- lots of us have also made the transition. Radio had a chance, but everyone wanted to program to the 25-54 sweet spot, so the industry is progressively moving closer to having nobody.

 

[TheBigA]

Which of these do you believe is the future then? Or is it something else?

We've already seen music stations change to talk. I don't see commercial music stations changing to non-commercial. Unless they get sold to EMF. What I see them doing is growing their digital footprint and cutting staff at their broadcast stations. I haven't seen many stations lose listeners when they cut on-air talent. We're waiting to see what the change in Nielsen PPM monitoring will do to commercial load. That'll take a while to assess.

When commercial stations invest in talent, they want that talent to do more than just announce music. The TJ Show is an example of what we're seeing as far as millennial radio. The trend is to have a core group of friends who interact the way characters behave on reality TV shows. Bobby Bones is another example. But these are shows based on personal interaction, not music.

There are a lot of public stations experimenting with some form of AAA music. That seems to be a growth area for them. If they can get an FM license cheaply, perhaps from a college getting out of radio ownership, then they'll put some form on non-commercial music format on it.

 

[TheBigA]

Radio had a chance, but everyone wanted to program to the 25-54 sweet spot, so the industry is progressively moving closer to having nobody.

Once again, radio companies would gladly program 60s oldies to boomers until they die. It's the advertisers who crave the 25-54 demo.

 

[radioislife2020]

It would be interesting if Urban One decided to try some NYC radio. They definitely have the money to do it.

 

[TheBigA]

It would be interesting if Urban One decided to try some NYC radio. They definitely have the money to do it.

The problem is it would be a one-station operation, which is very hard to do in NY. We saw Cumulus unable to compete with a 3 station cluster. MediaCo is struggling with 2 stations. These small clusters have to compete against the formidable iHeart and Audacy groups. So I would advise Urban One to stay away unless they buy more than the one station.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

We've already seen music stations change to talk.

Some of them just flipped to simulcasts of existing AM formats, though. But, if talk is the future then why were you so supportive of Audacy killing WCBS? Not only was that one of the best talk stations in the nation, it was one of the most locally-focused stations in the region. If talk is truly the future and music is not, then they should have moved that top-ten billing station to FM and poured their resources into growing that talk format. Instead, they took the cheap way out. So, is talk radio the future or isn't it?

I don't see commercial music stations changing to non-commercial. Unless they get sold to EMF.

That's not "changing" anything, it's just selling out to a religious broadcaster. And you know what, an explosion of godcasters is starting to look like the most likely future for radio. They always take over the most distressed mass media platforms as we have seen first with shortwave, then AM, and now FM.

What I see them doing is growing their digital footprint and cutting staff at their broadcast stations.

Is there anyone even left to cut?? Anyway, there is only one big broadcaster with a meaningful digital footprint and it suffers from the same problem as its terrestrial footprint, the same problem you initially called out, namely the endless ads interrupting the music.

I haven't seen many stations lose listeners when they cut on-air talent.

Seriously? We have seen a constant decline in radio listening that just happens to coincide with the constant cutting of on-air talent. While that may not be the only reason for the loss of listeners, it's not irrelevant.

We're waiting to see what the change in Nielsen PPM monitoring will do to commercial load. That'll take a while to assess.

My guess is that as long as there's a place to jam another commercial and earn a nickel, big radio will keep doing it regardless of what PPM says.

When commercial stations invest in talent, they want that talent to do more than just announce music.

That's nothing new...

The TJ Show is an example of what we're seeing as far as millennial radio. The trend is to have a core group of friends who interact the way characters behave on reality TV shows. Bobby Bones is another example. But these are shows based on personal interaction, not music.

The TJ Show got no ratings in NYC. That would seem to indicate millennials weren't going for it. I haven't heard how he's doing in the other syndicated markets he's in, though. Are those stations killing it with millennials? Got any numbers to share?

There are a lot of public stations experimenting with some form of AAA music. That seems to be a growth area for them. If they can get an FM license cheaply, perhaps from a college getting out of radio ownership, then they'll put some form on non-commercial music format on it.

Yeah I love it but AAA is a really niche format and I don't think a public station AAA model is going to save big radio. I would not be sad to see some of the big operators finally get their assets liquidated in the next bankruptcy though, and for those licenses be divided up between more small-business-minded operators who are willing to do more of this kind of thing, though.

 

[Rollo-Smokes]

The TJ Show got no ratings in NYC. That would seem to indicate millennials weren't going for it. I haven't heard how he's doing in the other syndicated markets he's in, though. Are those stations killing it with millennials? Got any numbers to share?

Um, I doubt Emmis is subscribing to Nielsen.

And in today's world, PPM numbers don't hold the same weight as social media engagement. That would be more important for the TJ Show than Nielsen's numbers.

 

[TheBigA]

Some of them just flipped to simulcasts of existing AM formats, though. But, if talk is the future then why were you so supportive of Audacy killing WCBS? Not only was that one of the best talk stations in the nation, it was one of the most locally-focused stations in the region.

First of all, WCBS was a news station, not a talk station. Two different things. Two years earlier, Audacy chose WINS as its primary all-news station. They gave it an FM simulcast. They could see the demographics for the news format was aging, and there wasn't enough audience for two stations in the same format in the same city. WCBS was billing well, but cost too much money. The duplication of the format was hurting them. They couldn't have three AM simulcasts in the same market. They tried to differentiate WCBS by adding more sports. But when Good Karma offered them money for an LMA that allowed them to keep the money from the Mets, they took it. By doing so, 880 is now a locally-focused sports talk station that allows Audacy to profit from Mets baseball without breaking the news format. Win-Win-Win.

Is there anyone even left to cut??

Do you listen to radio in NY? There are lots of on local air staffers thanks to AFTRA mandating a certain amount of live & local talent.

Seriously? We have seen a constant decline in radio listening that just happens to coincide with the constant cutting of on-air talent. While that may not be the only reason for the loss of listeners, it's not irrelevant.

Once again, listen to all the live & local talent in NYC. How do all the local hosts help a station like WXBK? The decline in radio listening happened when radio was fully staffed. It happened because listeners wanted more control over what they heard, and streaming gave them that control. Broadcast radio can't deliver a personalized music format for each listener.

The TJ Show got no ratings in NYC. That would seem to indicate millennials weren't going for it.

The TJ show got no ratings in NYC because they don't subscribe. Neither does 880AM.

The TJ show does well in the 60+ markets that carry it. There's a lot of competition for syndicated morning shows. They seem to be doing well considering that their syndicator doesn't own any radio stations.

Yeah I love it but AAA is a really niche format and I don't think a public station AAA model is going to save big radio.

I didn't say it would. I said that public radio stations are doing it. When Hubbard tried it in Seattle, it flopped.

I would not be sad to see some of the big operators finally get their assets liquidated in the next bankruptcy though, and for those licenses be divided up between more small-business-minded operators who are willing to do more of this kind of thing, though.

That's not how it would work. If there was a Chap 7 liquidation, the creditors would sell the stations to the highest bidders in order to get their investment back. The highest bidders would likely be all religious companies. There are no small business-minded operators who can see a future playing music on commercial radio. If there were, they would be lining up with cash for 98.7.

 

[Miss Tuned]

You have stated this repeatedly here on this site. While I don't believe the whole radio industry can be painted with such a broad brush, I do agree with your assessment in principle.

There will probably always be room for some very mainstream, ad-supported music stations, but there certainly seems to be no growth in it anymore. With each passing year it gets easier for people to to use streaming apps instead of radio in vehicles as in-car entertainment systems continue to evolve. And, at the same time, the generation that grew up with music on the radio being a central part of their lives diminishes while the more tech savvy generations that have grown up in the streaming age grow.

So, your statement points to just a few possible solutions:

• Music stations changing to a non-commercial model
• Music stations changing to talk
• Music stations changing to some other concept, perhaps as yet untried

Which of these do you believe is the future then? Or is it something else?

This is where I'm at. There are a lot of stations in my market whose programming is a variation on pop music (newer, older, softer, more rhythmic, etc etc), with inoffensive wallpaper DJs, interrupted every 20 minutes by 5-6 minutes of depressing ads for gambling and Big Macs.

It's not 1989, the pop music they're playing is not a rare commodity that I'd otherwise have to go to a record store to obtain. The wallpaper DJ is telling me about a show I didn't watch on TV last night, and spouting platitudes like "I love that song" and "I hope you aren't too cold out there today". My car has Spotify, which for a small fee gives me access to pretty much every song I love, with no commercials. Three days out of five in the working week, I'm not even commuting, I'm sitting at a computer which is playing music. I don't need news, my phone does that. I don't need traffic, my in-car navigation does that.

To make any impact in that context, a radio station has to be really well programmed, it has to give me music discovery or insightful presentation or something that I can't just create for myself on Spotify, and it has to make it worth me listening to the clutter, which most stations don't. It can still be done, but the days of "we own a stick, we're playing pop music, advertisers will come along and it'll print money" are long gone.

What I'm seeing in my own market is a lot of experimentation. There's a station that's been going for a few years that's mostly automated, but has sponsored hours instead of commercials - it's a Jack-a-like, variety hits and funny liners, but a lot of the liners between songs will plug a sponsor in a jokey way (e.g. "leather jackets that'll make your ex regret everything"). With a low cost base, it seems to be surviving. Other new stations are clearly passion projects, funded by people who don't expect to make any money, but who want to make radio and can afford to make radio because they make/have made money elsewhere. That seems to be where things are going.

 

[TheBigA]

My car has Spotify, which for a small fee gives me access to pretty much every song I love, with no commercials.

Or some similar service. Spotify has replaced the personal record collection. That's why record stores for the most part are gone, and why the music industry is no longer based on physical sales. Labels and artists now receive direct royalties that relate to the plays of their music on digital platform. That business has adapted. Radio in some ways has not, mainly because it IS so well programmed and does something that streaming doesn't. The studies show people don't do one thing to the complete exclusion of the other. But the usage of broadcast radio is limited. So it is rebudgeting and reallocating human resources around the new usage.

To make any impact in that context, a radio station has to be really well programmed, it has to give me music discovery or insightful presentation or something that I can't just create for myself on Spotify, and it has to make it worth me listening to the clutter, which most stations don't. It can still be done, but the days of "we own a stick, we're playing pop music, advertisers will come along and it'll print money" are long gone.

As you say, a lot of stations are adapting to that. It's up to the individual talent to demonstrate their value to their employers, otherwise they are gone. The value is easily quantified, and one thing management is good at is reading the numbers. They know who is delivering value, and who is not. So yes, some radio companies and stations are experimenting with formats or presentations in order to find their way in the new reality. We can't discount that there still is an audience for traditional radio. But not enough to justify all stations staying with status quo. Clearly there's value in podcasting, so if a radio show can provide a podcast of what they do, that is value that can be quantified. If they can do sponsored social media in a way that can be quantified, that is more value. Record labels and artists adapted to the new streaming world with help from the streaming royalty. They received a new revenue stream that replaced (to some degree) the previous physical sales. Radio stations don't have a new revenue stream yet. Or at least they haven't completely figured out how to replace the revenue from :30 spots. At least not yet.

It's a process, and that's what we're seeing now. We will see it again at 6PM today at 98.7.

 

[radiofan2023]

This is where I'm at. There are a lot of stations in my market whose programming is a variation on pop music (newer, older, softer, more rhythmic, etc etc), with inoffensive wallpaper DJs, interrupted every 20 minutes by 5-6 minutes of depressing ads for gambling and Big Macs.

It's not 1989, the pop music they're playing is not a rare commodity that I'd otherwise have to go to a record store to obtain. The wallpaper DJ is telling me about a show I didn't watch on TV last night, and spouting platitudes like "I love that song" and "I hope you aren't too cold out there today". My car has Spotify, which for a small fee gives me access to pretty much every song I love, with no commercials. Three days out of five in the working week, I'm not even commuting, I'm sitting at a computer which is playing music. I don't need news, my phone does that. I don't need traffic, my in-car navigation does that.

To make any impact in that context, a radio station has to be really well programmed, it has to give me music discovery or insightful presentation or something that I can't just create for myself on Spotify, and it has to make it worth me listening to the clutter, which most stations don't. It can still be done, but the days of "we own a stick, we're playing pop music, advertisers will come along and it'll print money" are long gone.

The only station formats I get new music from are college and AAA, because they add more new music that's different than other stations in this market I've listened to.

 

[Xroka28]

Jai Kurshner just teased a format that is going to be music on 98.7 (in case anyone thinks 98.7 is going to be talk radio)

 

[secondchoice]

One would think the "new" service would be able to do a press release today. A smart owner would want whoever LMA's this station to succeed. If what ever goes on the air at the station goes well, then set back an collect rent. If there is significant revenue, the LMA could buy it.

IMHO: They have to come up with a realistic sales price to sell it soon or it will continue to lose value.

 

[RadioGuy1864]

United Stations has BOB FM and HANK FM as 24 hour formats. Unless they are going to debut a totally new format, it's probably one of those two.