The PPM has been very kind to the Classic Hits format and Bonneville must be at least second guessing their decision. B973 had it's best book just before the decision to go FM/News/Talk and AM/Sports. And now KJR-FM is reaping the benefits of that decision. Conratulations to Jay and crew.
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PPM Rankings
- Thread starter Radio-Schmoozer
- Start date
Not sure how you getting your "teenagers". The cume posted is for 12+...which incudes everyone 12 and above...including 55+!!! You don't think KOMO and KWJZ might have a few of those 55+ in there, do you?
Ok, Here's the 25-54 top 30 instead of just 20
25-54 Average Persons
1- KPLZ (Big winner across the board w/PPM)
2- KJAQ (Big PPM Winner
3- KRWM
4- KJR-FM (Big PPM winner)
5- KCMS
6- KISW
7- KZOK
8- (tie)KKWF
8- (tie)KMPS
10- KBKS
11- KUOW
12- KUBE
13- KMTT
14- KJR-AM
15- KQMV
16- KNDD
17- KIRO-AM
18- KOMO AM
19- KIRO-FM
20- KWJZ
21- KTTH-AM
22- KFNK
23- KPTK-AM
24- KNBQ
25- KPLU
26- KDDS
27- KVI-AM
28- KGY-AM
29- KFMY
30- KNHC
25-54 Average Persons
1- KPLZ (Big winner across the board w/PPM)
2- KJAQ (Big PPM Winner
3- KRWM
4- KJR-FM (Big PPM winner)
5- KCMS
6- KISW
7- KZOK
8- (tie)KKWF
8- (tie)KMPS
10- KBKS
11- KUOW
12- KUBE
13- KMTT
14- KJR-AM
15- KQMV
16- KNDD
17- KIRO-AM
18- KOMO AM
19- KIRO-FM
20- KWJZ
21- KTTH-AM
22- KFNK
23- KPTK-AM
24- KNBQ
25- KPLU
26- KDDS
27- KVI-AM
28- KGY-AM
29- KFMY
30- KNHC
KGY AM? Remember, Olympia is in the Seattle market. It doesn't have to be "somebody in Seattle" getting the station. It is more than like, just ONE person with a PPM device somewhere in KGY's backyard. The sample size is so small, that one or two meters could allow a station that did not show up in the diary method, to potentially show up when it had not before.
NOTE TO RADIO-SCHMOOZER...could you post the 12+ cume ranks down as far as you have them...and perhaps some milestones...what range #1 is (600K's) vs #20 for example?
NOTE TO RADIO-SCHMOOZER...could you post the 12+ cume ranks down as far as you have them...and perhaps some milestones...what range #1 is (600K's) vs #20 for example?
LBB has a point - PPM seems to reflect a good deal of intuitive listening, gut reaction if you will. But to see the complete demise of KVI or KIXI in any reasonble demo is counter intuitive.
On the other hand, maybe we're so used to the King with no clothes, we don't recognize him after a Nordstrom sale.
On the other hand, maybe we're so used to the King with no clothes, we don't recognize him after a Nordstrom sale.
Assuming these numbers are accurate, and assuming they are followed by similar rankings in upcoming months, is it possible we have seen one of the most historic developments in the history of radio broadcasting: the total demolition of KIRO?
Based on the posted numbers, KIRO FM is barely in the top 20 in 25-54 rank or in 12+ cume. KIRO-AM, with the Mariners (and remember they started the season strong) also poorly ranked.
It wasn't that long ago that KIRO-AM, even when they were struggling, was ALWAYS a top 5 station in cume and often #1 in cume. And certainly they were at the top of the heap when the had the Mariners.
The decision to switch one of the country's truly great heritage AM stations to the FM band with PPM just around the corner was a very risky move. For the sake of the many fine people working at KIRO, I hope the numbers come around. But based on the "early returns" it looks like Bruce Reese & Drew Horowitz may have destroyed a legend.
Based on the posted numbers, KIRO FM is barely in the top 20 in 25-54 rank or in 12+ cume. KIRO-AM, with the Mariners (and remember they started the season strong) also poorly ranked.
It wasn't that long ago that KIRO-AM, even when they were struggling, was ALWAYS a top 5 station in cume and often #1 in cume. And certainly they were at the top of the heap when the had the Mariners.
The decision to switch one of the country's truly great heritage AM stations to the FM band with PPM just around the corner was a very risky move. For the sake of the many fine people working at KIRO, I hope the numbers come around. But based on the "early returns" it looks like Bruce Reese & Drew Horowitz may have destroyed a legend.
S
scoobidont
Guest
While I agree that things look bad for KIRO, I don't know that it's accurate to say they "destroyed a legend."
Unless by legend, you mean KBSG. Which, I assume, you don't.
It's not like any spoken word station is setting the PPM on fire. Even KUOW lost some ground.
Hindsight is 20/20. KIRO has been in a state of flux for 6 years. Technology has also changed. Smart phones, GPS, adaptations to vehicles, mp3 players and other things have given the individual more choices than ever and the audience is exercising that power. For the most part, people today want what they want now. No broadcast medium can deliver that. I can get the traffic on my phone and I don't have to sit through 8 minutes of news that doesn't affect me. I can listen to "Boom Boom Pow" by Black Eyed Peas a hundred times on my commute if I feel like it and I don't have to listen to Monti, T-Man, Jacki or anyone else blather on about something I don't care about.
KIRO could have stayed on the AM and the result, likely, would have been about the same. The only difference would have been that KBSG probably would have performed better than sports or news/talk for a lot less investment.
But I still think KIRO has a lot of problems.
Unless by legend, you mean KBSG. Which, I assume, you don't.
It's not like any spoken word station is setting the PPM on fire. Even KUOW lost some ground.
Hindsight is 20/20. KIRO has been in a state of flux for 6 years. Technology has also changed. Smart phones, GPS, adaptations to vehicles, mp3 players and other things have given the individual more choices than ever and the audience is exercising that power. For the most part, people today want what they want now. No broadcast medium can deliver that. I can get the traffic on my phone and I don't have to sit through 8 minutes of news that doesn't affect me. I can listen to "Boom Boom Pow" by Black Eyed Peas a hundred times on my commute if I feel like it and I don't have to listen to Monti, T-Man, Jacki or anyone else blather on about something I don't care about.
KIRO could have stayed on the AM and the result, likely, would have been about the same. The only difference would have been that KBSG probably would have performed better than sports or news/talk for a lot less investment.
But I still think KIRO has a lot of problems.
C
checkingout
Guest
It's a whole new game.
R
radioprofessor
Guest
I may be able to shed some light on the PPM having experience in multiple PPM markets. The parameter of success seems to be playing out with the latest PPM releases with a variation or two, in my humble view. In broad strokes:
1. News and News Talk lean older and do not perform as well. They got much more credit than they ever deserved. Same with NPR. News on FM makes no difference in the PPM world. Washington DC is the exception but that is an unusual city. While FM News may narrowly beat AM news and talk, in most markets the demo is too old to matter. The format does get a nice spike in Winter during poor weather in northern cities. Please note after the election and winter numbers declined at most News outlets 25-54.
2. Automated stations do not do well over the long haul, in my analysis. The stations that are winning 25-54 in PPM, regardless of format, play a lot of music but also have heritage personalities. I look at KISS in Boston, MIX in Chicago, STAR in Seattle, KISS in LA and the list goes on. The morning personality that will make money in the PPM world learns to deliver content, yet still play music in morning drive. Some make the transition and some have ego's that won't allow them to consider music might be equally as important as their personality; a parameter that won't work in PPM.
3. SOFT-AC and office stations do well in cume at 6+, but tend to lean older.
4. Country has not fared well. Seattle, San Diego and Phoenix numbers are bringing that point home. Smooth Jazz and AAA also face tough times. The exception is San Diego where smooth Jazz is working. Rythmic, Urban and Hispanic continue to face tough times and are the subject of the FCC Inquiry into the PPM.
5. PPM does see variation day to day and week to week, but the monthlies tend to be much less volatile. This is not an extrap, but the first full month of listening from the panel that will not change. The preference parameter is set and the market will adjust. I would expect an Active Rock format (KROQ style) to emerge to challenge KISW and JACK. Expect to see a gold based soft AC (think KODA or KOIT) to challenge KRWM, KPLZ, KCMS and KJR-FM and possibly another Mainstream CHR to attack KUBE, KISS, KPLZ andKQMV, none of which seems to be firing on all cylinders. I expected KISS to do much better based on other markets.
Hope this humble post shares some insight as Seattle digests the new reality. It is a whole new game indeed.
1. News and News Talk lean older and do not perform as well. They got much more credit than they ever deserved. Same with NPR. News on FM makes no difference in the PPM world. Washington DC is the exception but that is an unusual city. While FM News may narrowly beat AM news and talk, in most markets the demo is too old to matter. The format does get a nice spike in Winter during poor weather in northern cities. Please note after the election and winter numbers declined at most News outlets 25-54.
2. Automated stations do not do well over the long haul, in my analysis. The stations that are winning 25-54 in PPM, regardless of format, play a lot of music but also have heritage personalities. I look at KISS in Boston, MIX in Chicago, STAR in Seattle, KISS in LA and the list goes on. The morning personality that will make money in the PPM world learns to deliver content, yet still play music in morning drive. Some make the transition and some have ego's that won't allow them to consider music might be equally as important as their personality; a parameter that won't work in PPM.
3. SOFT-AC and office stations do well in cume at 6+, but tend to lean older.
4. Country has not fared well. Seattle, San Diego and Phoenix numbers are bringing that point home. Smooth Jazz and AAA also face tough times. The exception is San Diego where smooth Jazz is working. Rythmic, Urban and Hispanic continue to face tough times and are the subject of the FCC Inquiry into the PPM.
5. PPM does see variation day to day and week to week, but the monthlies tend to be much less volatile. This is not an extrap, but the first full month of listening from the panel that will not change. The preference parameter is set and the market will adjust. I would expect an Active Rock format (KROQ style) to emerge to challenge KISW and JACK. Expect to see a gold based soft AC (think KODA or KOIT) to challenge KRWM, KPLZ, KCMS and KJR-FM and possibly another Mainstream CHR to attack KUBE, KISS, KPLZ andKQMV, none of which seems to be firing on all cylinders. I expected KISS to do much better based on other markets.
Hope this humble post shares some insight as Seattle digests the new reality. It is a whole new game indeed.
Bongwater said:
Even smaller than a cell phone is the brain of your basic major chain operator...and they are bring down hundreds at a time! But possible the size of grey matter from home offices of Citadel + Cumulus + CC + CBS may, at least, EQUAL the size of an average cell phone!
well cowboys not sure what say about the ole PPM cause it looks like my prediction of KIRO-AM, WOLF, KBKS and KZOK was a big ole turd whirler :-\ Kind of like picking McCain for President. KIRO-AM was the best of the AM's but that is like saying you are the sweetest smelling skunk, no audience is sniffin news or talk or sports in the PPM :-X Who the hell would pick KPLZ as the top station in just about every frickin demo 
JACK, KJR-FM are monsters and Country got a PPM horse with no saddle :-\ The WOLF beat KMPS in mornings, 18-34 and 25-54 but still didn't crack the top five.
I am not taking anything away from the gang at STAR, KJR, JACK WARM and KCMS. I agree with the old prof. I expect a new gold based AC to drag audience out of WARM, KPLZ, KCMS and especially KJR-FM. Cheap to run and you got to think Sandusky may do it so no one chaps WARM's hide especially since MOVin moved on and Smooth Jazz is a defunct format. Boneaville may just want to flip KIRO back to KBSG :-[ What the hell is Cheap Channel going to do with KJR-AM or KUBE. T-Man stands for Twentith Man :-X SEE BS had their automated station clean the clocks of their expensive former top five station KZOK and KMPS. Ouch Exitcom got their butts whipped with KISW still alive but down, END dead, WOLF down (but better than COMPASS) and the Mountain more like a molehill :'( Fisher got no AM bite anymore,yet there little old FM STAR is number one, huh? but really are Kent and Alan the best morning show in Seattle ??? Really :-[ Damn folks this is weird.
I admit when I blew it and I blew it on predicting the PPM. This dog ain't got no bite
JACK, KJR-FM are monsters and Country got a PPM horse with no saddle :-\ The WOLF beat KMPS in mornings, 18-34 and 25-54 but still didn't crack the top five. I am not taking anything away from the gang at STAR, KJR, JACK WARM and KCMS. I agree with the old prof. I expect a new gold based AC to drag audience out of WARM, KPLZ, KCMS and especially KJR-FM. Cheap to run and you got to think Sandusky may do it so no one chaps WARM's hide especially since MOVin moved on and Smooth Jazz is a defunct format. Boneaville may just want to flip KIRO back to KBSG :-[ What the hell is Cheap Channel going to do with KJR-AM or KUBE. T-Man stands for Twentith Man :-X SEE BS had their automated station clean the clocks of their expensive former top five station KZOK and KMPS. Ouch
Exitcom got their butts whipped with KISW still alive but down, END dead, WOLF down (but better than COMPASS) and the Mountain more like a molehill :'( Fisher got no AM bite anymore,yet there little old FM STAR is number one, huh? but really are Kent and Alan the best morning show in Seattle ??? Really :-[ Damn folks this is weird.I admit when I blew it and I blew it on predicting the PPM. This dog ain't got no bite
radioprofessor said:
I would say your're right, if we thought Kiss was a strong as Z, Kiss LA, etc...but clearly it has not been in diary as strong as these two examples, but...#3 12+, #1 18-34, (unless I was told wrong)....seems reasonable to me, given where KBKS had been over the last year, a pretty remarkable turn around...and a pretty good PPM debut...
It really looks like the PPM has given a "reality check" for stations in the Seattle market. But I do agree, stations should give it a couple PPM readings, before they make any changes. I expect ALOT of changes coming to radio here in the Seattle market, within the next year or year-and-a-half.
The staff at Fisher must be jumping up and down right now, with Star 101.5 getting the highest ratings. That was unexpected probably to them!
The staff at Fisher must be jumping up and down right now, with Star 101.5 getting the highest ratings. That was unexpected probably to them!
The Star staff is full of pro's that know ratings can be fleeting.
This only the 1st month of PPM, lets see where we all are in July.
Meanwhile, Star and the current staff has fended of attacks for years. Just because us guys, which makes up at least 90% of the posters here don't care for the format, does'nt mean S**T.
I'll be the tenth to say, I'm shocked!
Congrats to Kent and Alan and staff!
This only the 1st month of PPM, lets see where we all are in July.
Meanwhile, Star and the current staff has fended of attacks for years. Just because us guys, which makes up at least 90% of the posters here don't care for the format, does'nt mean S**T.
I'll be the tenth to say, I'm shocked!
Congrats to Kent and Alan and staff!
Well if Gold Based AC is the one thing that can take (some of) the wind out of the sails of KRWM, KPLZ and KJR-FM, then 98.9 is your frequency, KIXI is your call letters. And musically, I always thought this Australian station fit the bill pretty nicely:
http://www.4bh.com.au/
It's a borderline Standards/Gold AC format that has become my favorite in this genre. Their format has everything really to make it work.......
http://www.4bh.com.au/
It's a borderline Standards/Gold AC format that has become my favorite in this genre. Their format has everything really to make it work.......
Bongwater said:
THANK YOU for this link! This is exactly what I think that format should be ... some nostalgic gold, and not hung up on era definitions. The brings up something else that I never connected with the PPM ... WE CAN FINALLY GET RID OF THE TWENTY YEAR OLD IMAGING!!! Don't need some "stutter" liner every other song ("the be-be-be-be-best mix....THROWING IT DOWN....etc.") and can let morre songs sweep like a music artform radio is supposed to be when the jock is not present. Other good thing about this format is that it can do long sweeps without talent "in the way", yet nice to have the talent. Perfect voice track format!
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