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Pre-sunrise permission

B

b344077

While I was ranting for the last couple of days, I noticed something about WCPT having Pre-sunrise permission. Can somebody explain the basis for that. I believed that because WCPT was on a "clear channel" frequency and is located east of the dominant station (WBAP) they could not operate before local sunrise.

What gives. Do all stations that fit into this situation have this capability? Like WMBI-AM?
 
I think permission was granted because everyone enjoys your rants so much.

And really b344077...what could be better than an extra fifteen minutes of them so early in the morning?

:D
 
b344077 said:
While I was ranting for the last couple of days, I noticed something about WCPT having Pre-sunrise permission. Can somebody explain the basis for that. I believed that because WCPT was on a "clear channel" frequency and is located east of the dominant station (WBAP) they could not operate before local sunrise.

What gives. Do all stations that fit into this situation have this capability? Like WMBI-AM?
Click to expand...
All of the stations are different, and some are able to sign on early or stay on later, usually the power is so miniscule that
most stations don't bother to use it. Some stations however do a get a decent amount of power one or two months of the year.

b344077, you can go to this link http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/sta_sear.htm
Once you are on that page type in the call letters of the station you would like to see, after that make sure to click on AM STATION,
then scroll to the bottom of the page and click on "Submit Station Search". When you get to the next page hit "Click For Details"
When you get to that page go to the bottom of the page and click "View Correspondence Folder". Then finally you will be on the
page where you will see "View PSRA" "View PSSA". I know it sounds complicated: but, it is an FCC website, so go figure :D

I hope that helps,
TR1992
 
OK. Great. I reviewed the site and it resulted in one more question: I noticed that WCPT's post sunset authority power is sharply reduced. I had believed that they could operate at full power until WBAP sunset.

- 30 -
 
b344077 said:
OK. Great. I reviewed the site and it resulted in one more question: I noticed that WCPT's post sunset authority power is sharply reduced. I had believed that they could operate at full power until WBAP sunset.

- 30 -
Click to expand...
Yes, they do operate at 5,000 watts until sunset in Ft. Worth. That is stipulated in their license.
The former WCPT AM 850(WAIT) also gets to stay on until Denver sunset with a reduced power of 265 watts.
During the day WAIT broadcasts with 2,500 watts with a 3 tower directional array from Crystal Lake. When the
sun sets here in Chicago they switch to 265 watts non-directional from 1 tower. Since they moved the progressive talk
format over to 820 they have been signing off at Chicago sunset, so you would not be able to hear the difference now.
However if you were listening to the format before the move to 820, you would have noticed the difference at about
Chicago sunset the signal was considerably weaker until they signed off about 1 hour later.


The number's that are listed on the link I gave you were just computer generated by the FCC and sent to all stations
to let them know that they could use those powers if they wished. Most stations don't bother with them though because
I'm sure you saw most of the authorazation's are mostly in the 1 to 10 watt range.

The problem with the PRSA's and PSSA's that station's like WCPT and WAIT use is that you can not find them in the FCC
database. They were written on paper sometime in the late seventies or early eighties and sent out to the individual
stations and they are the only one's with copies of them. They were authorized by the FCC before they computerized
everything, and for whatever reason they never included them in their database.

I hope that answers your question a little more(the way I babble on I should say a LOT more :D)
If I left something out feel free to ask me.

Have a great day,
TR1992 
 
Thanks for the info. I am fairly "long in the tooth" and so as a youngster I remember WJJD (1160) having pre-sunrise authority from 4:00-7:00AM and post-sunset until KSL sunset. The weirdest part of that deal was that in December, WJJD signed off at 7:00AM and then signed on again at 7:15AM!

820 has had their deal as far back as my earliest memories when my dad listened to WAIT for a Polka show on Sundays @ 5:00 PM from a bar near Midway Airport.

Thanks again. What I saw on the FCC supplied info and what WCPT does are two different things. Now it makes sense.
 
b344077 said:
820 has had their deal as far back as my earliest memories when my dad listened to WAIT for a Polka show on Sundays @ 5:00 PM from a bar near Midway Airport.
Click to expand...
Are you referring to the "Baby Doll Polka Club"???
 
I seem to remember "Club Irene". May be it was also referred to as the Baby Doll Polka Club". That was a long time ago and this person was a very young boy who had to negotiate for time to listen to rock on WJJD.
 
b344077 said:
Thanks for the info. I am fairly "long in the tooth" and so as a youngster I remember WJJD (1160) having pre-sunrise authority from 4:00-7:00AM and post-sunset until KSL sunset. The weirdest part of that deal was that in December, WJJD signed off at 7:00AM and then signed on again at 7:15AM!

820 has had their deal as far back as my earliest memories when my dad listened to WAIT for a Polka show on Sundays @ 5:00 PM from a bar near Midway Airport.

Thanks again. What I saw on the FCC supplied info and what WCPT does are two different things. Now it makes sense.
Click to expand...
b344077, How many years ago were the pre-sunrise and post sunset times for WJJD and WAIT that you remember?
You jogged my memory now when you spoke of WJJD, and they did have a very good pre and post sun authority before they
obtained their 5,000 watt nightime signal in the 1980's(now their 50,000 watts nightime from 6 towers in Lockport).

You are probably right about WCPT(WAIT) having the later license much longer than I am thinking.

I have been in radio now for about 15 years I'm in my mid-30's so there are probably a couple things I could learn from you.

Have a Great Day,
TR1992
 
I remember WJJD going off for 15 minutes and then coming back on. It was the wierdest thing I remember from an era when a number of strange things and strange rules we're in play. This happened at varying times or not at all depending on what month it was. I guess you were supposed to go take your morning shower or something, while KSL was signing on prior to the Chicago sunrise. The flip side was a lot of people probably didn't realize that the station was a daytimer, because for most of the year it was on the air until well beyond evening drive.
 
Does anyone know if any other Chicago stations have to 'power down' at sunrise or sunset?

I know that WMAQ shares the 670 frequency with KBOI/Boise, and I occassionally could listen to WLS out here in LA until the FCC allowed another station in either Cedar City or St. George (both in Utah) on WLS's frequency.
 
cyberdad said:
I remember WJJD going off for 15 minutes and then coming back on. It was the wierdest thing I remember from an era when a number of strange things and strange rules we're in play. This happened at varying times or not at all depending on what month it was. I guess you were supposed to go take your morning shower or something, while KSL was signing on prior to the Chicago sunrise. The flip side was a lot of people probably didn't realize that the station was a daytimer, because for most of the year it was on the air until well beyond evening drive.
Click to expand...

WJJD, like a number of limited stations on clear channels, was totally dependent on KSL. It signed off at sunset in SLC, not Chicago... meaning in the summer the signoff could be after 9 PM. On Sunday, they could go off at SLC sunset and back on when KSL signed off at Midnight for maintenence.

Another example in an opposite direction was KVFD 1020 in LA, which signed on at sunrise in Pittsburg. That meant that they might be on at 3 AM or 4 AM, and this gave rise to the first Spanish language broadcasting in LA just after W.W. II in the sign on to 6 AM slot. KVFD, which was later KPOP and KGBS, could also operate from Midnight Pittsburgh time Sunday strait through the evening because KDKD went off then for maintenance. The station was frequently heard in the East on the empty channel.
 
DavidEduardo said:
cyberdad said:
I remember WJJD going off for 15 minutes and then coming back on. It was the wierdest thing I remember from an era when a number of strange things and strange rules we're in play. This happened at varying times or not at all depending on what month it was...
Click to expand...

WJJD, like a number of limited stations on clear channels, was totally dependent on KSL. It signed off at sunset in SLC, not Chicago... meaning in the summer the signoff could be after 9 PM.
Click to expand...

I wonder if KSL was off the air 12-6am every morning and not just Mondays,
as that might explain WJJD's going off from 7-7:15am CT in December since
Chicago sign-on in December (and January) is 7:15. If KSL came on each
morning at 6:00am MT, WJJD would indeed need to protect KSL for the odd
15 minutes. In all other months Chicago sign-on was 6:45am CT or earlier.

If KSL did stay on 24/7 except once a week, was 12-6am back then always
the "experimental period" where limited time AMs could be on, even if the
primary station is also on?

In June and July, WJJD could stay on until 10:00pm CT, as SLC sunset is
8:00 MST/9:00 MDT.


DavidEduardo said:
Another example in an opposite direction was KVFD 1020 in LA
Click to expand...

KFVD, often referred to in jest as the only station with a social disease. ;)

BTW...Ten-Q DE, for the info on these. (Yes, pun intended.)
 
The "off for 15 minutes" sort of stuff with WJJD varied by month, day of the week, and KSL's schedule as I recall.
 
1964 Brian? Do we mean 74?
If I'm wrong, I have a bad memory of Mutual radio Network.
 
carlvenorden said:
1964 Brian? Do we mean 74?
If I'm wrong, I have a bad memory of Mutual radio Network.
Click to expand...

Jepko's overnight show started on KSL in 64. If memory serves,
they later put together an ad-hoc network of several other stations
(early 70s?) before being picked up by Mutual in the mid-70s for a
run of several years.

This is Mutual, your network for news and sports. (Bee-doop.)
 
Thats why I'm thinking 74, because that is when we first had Jepko's show locally.Didn't Larry King take over Jepko's show? I think that is how he became nationally known.
Carl
 
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