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PRIVATIZING THE CBC

Goldilocks94941 said:
I think northwoods is really a troll bought and paid for by the Heritage Foundation.
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If I was bought and paid for by the Heritage Foundation, I would have a winter residence on the beach in the Caribbean and not freezing my other end off where I am right now every winter.
 
I can go on about the CBC's fiscal and managerial incomptence and irresponsibility. In fact, I will go on. For all you supporters of CBC, after reading the following links if you still think it's still worthy to keep it as it is, just remember it's your money. If you trust the government more with your money than you do, just remember the old proverb:"A Fool and their Money are soon parted".

http://www.friends.ca.news-item/10333

http://www.friends.ca.news-item/10337

More links to come, even though it's probably doubtful it will change any minds.
 
Thanks for your positive feedback Goldilocks and Bongwater. It's reassuring to know that there are people south of the border who don't appear to be as narrow minded as some.

I really don't know what this individuals problem is. First of all most of the links he is providing won't even open up. The one that did work is from Sun News (aka: Canoe, aka: Quebecor, aka: bias central). This organization has about as much credibilty as a frozen lawn chocolate does with your average Canadian.

Give it a rest pal. Perhaps redirect all this energy into installing some better insulation in your home so you don't freeze your other end off this winter.
 
Northwoods, you have absolutely no idea about our media up here. You're not a citizen, and you have absolutely no right to tell me how MY tax dollars should be spent. The media source you cite has made it their job to distort facts and turn people against the CBC. Sun media is so biased and spitefull that it's not even considered a legitimate news outlet by many. You're obviously just trying to plant some right wing agenda which Canadians do not subscribe to.
 
mimo said:
Northwoods, you have absolutely no idea about our media up here. You're not a citizen, and you have absolutely no right to tell me how MY tax dollars should be spent. The media source you cite has made it their job to distort facts and turn people against the CBC. Sun media is so biased and spitefull that it's not even considered a legitimate news outlet by many. You're obviously just trying to plant some right wing agenda which Canadians do not subscribe to.
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Nimo, a few things I need to set straight. True, I'm not a citizen (even though I have some Canadian ancestry in my family-my great-grandparents (my father's grandparents-both sides) emigrated from Quebec). And true, I don't have a right to tell you how your tax dollars should be spent. After all, as I said before, it's your money.

Where I disagree with you is that I'm trying to plant a right wing agenda. I'm proud to admit that I'm a free market fiscal conservative. I work hard for my money (as I'm sure you do as well), and get infuriated when our elected officials on both the state and federal level treat it with contempt and spend it irresponsibly.

I started this topic saying that NPR and PBS should have it's funding cut and be privatized due to the fact that it has a liberal bias (particularly it's treatment of Juan Williams (not exactly a right winger) expressing his fear of Muslim's on The O'Reilly Factor) and due to the $14 trillion debt that is financially crushing this country, it's a luxury that the US can no longer afford.

So I just posed the question should the CBC be privatized for the same reasons that NPR and PBS should. I provided sources to bolster the argument for it. If you (or anyone else) has any sources to bolster the opposing position, then feel free to post them and we can debate them. I enjoy having a robust debate (since we live in a country where we can express our opinions freely). But it can and should be done on the issue itself without engaging in name calling.

You have your opinion of Sun News, which is most likely different from mine (even though I don't receive it), but you have a right to it and I respect that (just as I hope you respect mine).
 
...but Sun News really is a pile of garbage.
Their low ratings are also willing to strengthen my opinion on that station.
Just because something is "right winged" doesn't make it good.
Now, if they were to steal John Tory from CFRB, THAT might make for good right winged talk, but even then, the station is too bias, and nobody is watching.

As for CBC, I've said it before, I'll say it again. I like tax dollars paying for a TV station to keep people employed in the business.
 
I've always been able to get CBC living near Canada, and seeing that they show commercials they can't be costing that much anyways. If I didn't know better I would have thought they were private already. I think PBS here in the states should be allowed to run commercials like the CBC. As for CBC Radio, Canada is pretty rural in parts especially up north. CBC brings service to areas that may not even be profitable by a private company. I think they even have some AM stations still going up north because there is just so much area to cover.

I'm not a Canadian tax payer so I really don't care what happens. The only thing I wish they did was identify their stations more for us DXers. ;D
 
The CBC is basically Canada's version of the BBC. Both have a responsibility to provide the national culture to every inch of the country (or at least every person). Being such a small country in population, we NEED a network that provides our voices, stories and culture to us. The private networks in Canada don't provide very much in terms of Canadian programming. It cost them to0 much money to do so for not enough return. CBC is also a bilingual service, with Radio Canada taking up the cause for French speaking Canadians everywhere, not just in Quebec. Their programming is outstanding. It's all produced in Canada by Canadians and using Canadian talent. What's more, even in areas with commercial French language services, it tops the ratings. I personally like Espace Musique radio. The French version of CBC radio 2. The variety of music and programming is unmatched anywhere, and it's great that I can be out west and still be able to listen just like I can here in my bilingual market. In many markets, Radio 1 is one of the top radio stations due to it's lack of commercials and interupting the flow. They can focus more in depth on stories, and the fact that they still produce culture programming is great. In some regions of the country all you can get is radio 1. Those areas are to0 sparsely populated for private broadcasting to be successfull. Those people at least get an opportunity throughout the week to hear music outside the mainstream, or of different genres, and they get to discover new and upcomming local/national talent. This is the role the CBC was created to serve, and the radio side still does that. TV is a different matter, but all Canadians watch the CBC whether they want to admit it or not. It might only be once a week/month or it might be daily, but it offers something for everyone...and it's ours. There are a few American shows on the CBC, but as far back as I can remember there always has been. The wonderful world of Disney from my childho0d, the Simpsons until a few years ago and game shows today like Jeopardy or Wheel Of Fortune. Although they do nothing to promote Canadian culture, they do draw in an audience that advertisers want to reach. The advertising only pays a small percentage of the operational fees. If the tax dollars were to be taken away entirely, the tv side (at least in English) would be gone within months. There are regions of the country where it is your only tv channel. Like the radio side, in those regions, they go above and beyond the call of duty to provide as valuable a service as they possibly can. Privatising it would result in the biggest champion of Canadian talent being silenced and thousands of Canadians without an opportunity to keep in contact with the rest of the country. If it were private, only the stations in the large markets might be able to make a go of it, and rural Canada would be left without any service. Those channels/frequencies would have to be shut down as there wouldn't be enough money to fund them. I don't think CBC wants to go the way of telethons to raise funds. I know I sure wouldn't want it to.
 
spunker88 said:
I've always been able to get CBC living near Canada, and seeing that they show commercials they can't be costing that much anyways.
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About cost to run, CBC also owns CBC Newsworld, which might cost a bit to run.
As well, CBC also owns CBC BOLD.

While not every program on Bold is ad free, I know nothing about ratings for that station, nor do I know how much it truly costs to run:

"bold boasts a diverse selection of uncut drama and comedy offerings, including the premiere of The Tudors - Uncut and Commercial-free, where viewers can see every scene of the hit series."

http://www.cbc.ca/bold/about-us.html
 
mimo said:
The CBC is basically Canada's version of the BBC. Both have a responsibility to provide the national culture to every inch of the country (or at least every person). Being such a small country in population, we NEED a network that provides our voices, stories and culture to us. The private networks in Canada don't provide very much in terms of Canadian programming. It cost them to0 much money to do so for not enough return. CBC is also a bilingual service, with Radio Canada taking up the cause for French speaking Canadians everywhere, not just in Quebec. Their programming is outstanding. It's all produced in Canada by Canadians and using Canadian talent. What's more, even in areas with commercial French language services, it tops the ratings. I personally like Espace Musique radio. The French version of CBC radio 2. The variety of music and programming is unmatched anywhere, and it's great that I can be out west and still be able to listen just like I can here in my bilingual market. In many markets, Radio 1 is one of the top radio stations due to it's lack of commercials and interupting the flow. They can focus more in depth on stories, and the fact that they still produce culture programming is great. In some regions of the country all you can get is radio 1. Those areas are to0 sparsely populated for private broadcasting to be successfull. Those people at least get an opportunity throughout the week to hear music outside the mainstream, or of different genres, and they get to discover new and upcomming local/national talent. This is the role the CBC was created to serve, and the radio side still does that. TV is a different matter, but all Canadians watch the CBC whether they want to admit it or not. It might only be once a week/month or it might be daily, but it offers something for everyone...and it's ours. There are a few American shows on the CBC, but as far back as I can remember there always has been. The wonderful world of Disney from my childho0d, the Simpsons until a few years ago and game shows today like Jeopardy or Wheel Of Fortune. Although they do nothing to promote Canadian culture, they do draw in an audience that advertisers want to reach. The advertising only pays a small percentage of the operational fees. If the tax dollars were to be taken away entirely, the tv side (at least in English) would be gone within months. There are regions of the country where it is your only tv channel. Like the radio side, in those regions, they go above and beyond the call of duty to provide as valuable a service as they possibly can. Privatising it would result in the biggest champion of Canadian talent being silenced and thousands of Canadians without an opportunity to keep in contact with the rest of the country. If it were private, only the stations in the large markets might be able to make a go of it, and rural Canada would be left without any service. Those channels/frequencies would have to be shut down as there wouldn't be enough money to fund them. I don't think CBC wants to go the way of telethons to raise funds. I know I sure wouldn't want it to.
Click to expand...

Mimo, you've made some valid points. But I can see some holes in your arguments. First off, there are probably millions of Canadian households (I don't have an exact number, but I'll just use millions for arguments sake) that have Cable TV or Satellite dishes (especially if they live in a rural part of Canada). So with regards to Canadian produced TV shows, the point that CBC would be their only choice, where a private operation wouldn't touch it leaves a considerable gap in your argument.

Second, with regards to radio, rural Canadians wouldn't be left out in the cold (for lack of a better metaphor) since they have the opition of satellite radio or internet radio, which provide a plethora of options to choose from. There are probably millions (again for arguments sake) of Canadian households with internet access (including rural Canada) where they can search out information from a variety of sources. I would have to research it, but it wouldn't suprise me that Canada's Cable TV outlets as well as Satellite TV providers offer music channels as part of their packages. So there is a second (or third) option right there.
 
northwoods said:
Second, with regards to radio, rural Canadians wouldn't be left out in the cold (for lack of a better metaphor) since they have the opition of satellite radio or internet radio, which provide a plethora of options to choose from.
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That would be a valid point if they can afford it, and if broadband internet is available. Not all Canadians can afford satellite (or, depending on terrain and obstructions, receive it), and not all Canadians have access to broadband internet, especially in rural areas where the big players are reluctant to upgrade. The satellite argument would work only if the satellite companies offer the local stations for free, or if the CRTC forces them to do so, but as long as you have to pay for the service, especially if you're required to buy the minimum required packages, satellite is not a viable substitute for terrestrial coverage.
 
In some remote areas, satellite and cable are not available. Especially the far north. There's no where to purchase the services, nowhere to buy the equipment and if you are able to somehow get it installed, there's no way that it's going to hold up to an Arctic winter. Cable has not been available in some of the villages on the islands, but a CBC transmitter is. One that provides television and radio 1. These places don't have stores, or roads that lead out of town to other towns....these are fly in communities in an inhospitable place. Supplies come in a couple of times a year on a ship, and people buy the electronics they need then, provided they've budgeted for them. The cost of living is extremely high, providing the infrastructure for internet and cable and satelite is also very high for no return. So Conventional over the air public broadcasting is the only way to go. The territorial capitals are a different story, as they do have stores, services, cable, internet and even private radio now. Iqualuit didn't have a commercial radio station until very recently, now they have a few, but the CBC is still what people prefer. It will actually programme to the innu in their own language and play music they know the words to0..unlike commercial radio which will only play the hits. The Innu deserve to have radio that plays their music, and commercial radio in the territories isn't very interested in doing that...what very little there is of it.
 
With regards of providing access to Cable TV, Satellite TV and radio, as well as internet into rural Canada might be difficult, it's not impossible (after all, we did land a man on the moon). As technology advances and improves, it will allow moving past the inpediments/obstacles that are currently encountered, which will also lower the cost of obtaining the equipment , providing the infrastructure for it's installation, as well as it's surviving the elements of an Arctic winter, which will then lower the cost to allow it to compete with conventional radio and tv.

Which brings me to another related topic. I had heard on a Canadian talk station last week that the CBC was unable to meet the deadline on upgrading it's translators from analog to digital, stating they didn't have the money to complete the upgrading. Even given an additional year, on top of the original one year extension, they still said they woudn't be able to complete the upgrade without additional money (which I don't think the Canadian taxpayers should have to fork out for their poor planning, but I digress). Stopping short of selling off some of the translators that have been upgraded to pay for those that haven't been (possibly in the rural areas...just guessing), the option would be to lease out those translators that haven't been upgraded to private outfits, where they would do the upgrading, which would then allow access to such possiblities as broadband internet as the spectrum increases. Now granted the CRTC will block the former, perhaps they'll grant a waiver for the latter (presuming they have any common sense...I'm not holding my breath on that one). Now this could be a reasonable alternative that we can agree on.

Let's presume that rural Canada has cell phone access (for arugument's sake). Cell phone providers (if allowed by the CTRC) can compete by offering internet acesss as well at a reasonable cost.

I'm not trying to shut out our friends far from civilization. Just the opposite. I want them to have the same access to outside communications sources that the rest of the populace has and not rely on the government nanny state.
 
northwoods said:
I'm not trying to shut out our friends far from civilization. Just the opposite. I want them to have the same access to outside communications sources that the rest of the populace has and not rely on the government nanny state.
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Sorry if I'm a little brusque here, but are you a Canadian? If not, why does it matter whether or not Canadians live in a "nanny state"?
 
That is partially true. They did upgrade some of the channels in the mandatory conversion markets well before the transition was supposed to occur. Especially here in Ottawa. They were the first to actually go digital here. Now not all markets were mandatory, and in some rare cases, markets were split where one half was to go all digital while the other half could remain analogue. That would require 2 separate transmitters. The Channels that they can't afford to upgrade will be allowed to be analogue for another year, hoping that the funds will come in pay for the costs. Materials and costs of doing things are about 30% higher here in Canada than in the states, in some cases they're 50% higher. There is a lot less advertising on Canadian tv. So much less that often times a commercial will need to run twice in a break just to fill the advertising time, and I'm will to bet that on all channels in Canada, there are less than 50 national spots and probably less than 20 local that are running currently. I used to see local advertising on the cbc noon news. I don't see any anymore. Just the same 10 national ads that run all hour....8 of which are for people with "mobility issues."

I think you may need to realise that Canadians don't feel the way about the government that Americans do. We believe as a people that the government's job is to provide services. We don't feel it's a nanny state, we feel it's an option to help get equal services for all. I do work for a well known polling firm in Canada, and this is what I get told to me every day at work by ordinary Canadians.
 
Okay, so to save money, they should shut down BOLD TV and relaunch it as the CBC Sports channel.
The CRTC has already granted them a licence for this new sports channel and they plan to launch it soon.
 
Some great comments here about the CBC. Some very educated people who obviously have listened over the years and really seem to understand what it's all about. The CBC has done a great service over the years. I believe they really have achieved their goal of uniting the country, although that might not be a clear goal of the CBC, it is being done.

I appreciate the support people give the CBC here. Overall, Canadians support the CBC and regardless of how much they listen, I do think that people do like the CBC.
 
CBC radio one does shockingly well in some markets but just doesn't have the numbers in other markets.
 
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