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Processing Question...?

L

Lazy J

Personal disclaimer: I don't know a whole lot about processing. It's sort of black magic to me.

I am doing some studio work for a little mom and pop group. The processing on one of the stations sounds weak and life-less. They are game for anything I want to try to "fatten-up" the sound. I looked through the storage and I have found a couple of units. They have an Orban 424a, dbx 160x, dbx 166, and dbx 166a.

Should I consider putting any of these units in the air chain? What would they be used for? How should they be set? The processor is a Optimod 8100a with no add-on boxes. The air chain is simply (Studio - Marti 10's - 8100a - Transmitter).

And, to elaborate on the personal disclaimer above, I am a younger engineer who typically works with senior engineers on most projects. I am usually tasked with wiring the processor, not adjusting it. So, use layman's terms whenever possible.

Thanks Guys!
 
The processors that you have mentioned are mainly used as general purpose studio units. Typically, these might be used to make spots sound louder or more uniform. Sometimes, they are pressed into service on mic chains, too.

What you didn't tell us is what kind of processing is currently on the air. Most modern processors (stuff made after the Optimod 8000) are fairly powerful. With some notable exceptions, many of them can still sound quite good in the hands of someone versed in setting them up.
 
Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. The current on-air processor is an Optimod 8100a without the XT or ST add-on boxes. I also have no idea how to fine tune it either.
 
The 8100 is designed to deliver maximum loudness while adding minimum color to the sound. Audio out should resemble audio in, but with greater density. The 8100 was intended to work that way and does this pretty effectively. Starting a few short years after the 8100's introduction, people started putting processors in front of the 8100 to re-equalize and enhance the audio. Some early attempts at this were made by putting CRL SEP400s in front of th 8100. Later, a dedicated pre-processor, the Audio Prism, made its debut and became one of the hottest selling boxes of the decade. When used properly, the sound from a pair of Audio Prisms driving an 8100 was quite good. In fact, there are a few of those combinations out there still holding their own today against the new digital boxes.

When used incorrectly, the combination yealded a busy, so called "wall of sound" effect that was not only less loud than the competitors' but was also less clear. This was typically the result of too much compression in the Prisms and not enough limiting perfomed by the 8100.

Putting a pre-processor in front of the 8100 must be done very carefully. If the pre-processor does more than just ride the levels as a slow AGC, you risk making the sound busy without gaining any real loudness. If you were to plop a pair of DBX166s in front of the 8100, the result would probably not be very good at all. Others will probably disagree, but my observation is that in pre-processing, less is often more. Use the Optimod's strengths, the distortion cancelling clippers and its limiters, to achieve the loudness that you want with minimal listener fatigue. Although old, the 8100 is still a powerful machine.

In your case, you have a few possible options. At the risk of getting some flack for this, some small market stations sounded pretty good by just dumping a cheap graphic EQ in front of their 8100 and gently (that's gently) tweaking up the bottom end (around 100Hz) and the top end (8kHz to 12kHz) a little.

If the format is anything other than smooth jazz, classical or easy listening, the 8100 should be set for fastest release time (0) and the bass coupling should also be at, or near zero. Setting the clipping higher results in more loudness at the expense of distortion. Use your ears carefully to find the right trade-off. For pop music, between zero and one is usually good. I always liked the HF limiting control set close to hard, probably around 7 or 8. Be sure to keep an eye on your modulation monitor's peak lights to make sure that none of your changes results in accidental overmodulation.

Another option might be to try the breakaway box (or software) that's become quite a buzz on the engineering boards. That's a PC running processing software. The price is pretty cheap, around $200 to $300 and the results are supposedly amazing.

Finally, there are several good and inexpensive digital processors out there ranging from the $1,500 DSPX-Mini to the Omnia1 and several others, both domestic and foreign. Basically, if you have at least $1500, you can retire your Optimod and move up a couple of decades in technology.


If you're interested in hot-rodding your 8100, there is athread on the board about that subject. Try http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=73579.10
 
Lazy J, as stated in your original post the processing is 8100 A,transmission is STL using Marti 10's.Both of these have been around the block a few times.You also said you work with a sr eng which is good.I would start by doing a sweep of the entire system from the console out to the antenna system.I've had issues with some of these being out of spec,especially stl's. What budget do they have to work with? I would never use an STL without some form of AGC for pre-processing.I like and use Arianes,but a compellor would be ok.If the 8100 has not been refurbed,you might consider contacting Bill Sacks.Or even just make it a spare and for the budget the BW dsp mini SE is a great buy,i've seen then for less than 1250.00,(contact scms)or you can roll your own with Breakaway which is amazing.More than likely the 8100 needs some updating.It comes down to money,like always...Good luck.Lots of good processing folks on this board..Some of the best in the business.
 
Get an Omnia One and put the 8100 up for sale on E-Bay. Everyone has their favorite brand of cheap processors, or computer-based devices. Play enough with these, and you might get acceptable results. However, the One has several straight-forward presets that are plug-n-play that will be loud enough and clean enough to keep your manager happy without the need for constant tweaking. Once it's in, you can go back to running the radio station & not have to fuss with it.
 
So, the general consensus it that the boxes I listed above probably would not help (or should not be used) to make the audio sound fuller? I don't think the owner is looking to spend any money right now. I was simply trying to use what they had to help the sound. But, I will leave it alone until they are ready to drop some cash.
 
You might try putting the 424 on the studio end of the STL, but the DBX boxes are not really designed for this kind of service.

The 8100 and the STL10 boxes would probably all benefit from a re-capping, which is cheaper than buying new, but would require paying you for a number of man-hours.

Is there any chance you would be permitted to sign the station off the air at 2am one Saturday morning and do a proof of the STL? (e.g. run pure tones through the air chain and check values with a scope on the output of the Marti receiver)

Before you can fully address any audio problems, you have to know the source(s) of the problem. Problems that sound like a processing deficiency can start at any point in the air chain. CD players, the board, the STL, the processor, the exciter, or sometimes even in the transmitter itself, especially in these small-town stations where good engineering help is scarce.
 
I actually already contacted Bill Sacks. He said it would be between $1600-$2300 depending on what mods are done. But, like I said, at the moment the owner doesn't want to drop the cash. So, I was trying to get the most out of the equipment that they already have.

I threw the Orban 424 in-line right before the Marti 10's and it gave the music a nice thump! I need to tweak on it more when I have more time. The 424 is at the studio, the 8100 is at the transmitter, so it takes a lot of trips back and forth to get them to play nice with each other. Should I bother running the Gate and the De-esser, or just run it lightly as a Compressor/Limiter?
 
Lazy J said:
... at the moment the owner doesn't want to drop the cash. So, I was trying to get the most out of the equipment that they already have.
Click to expand...

Recapping any piece of equipment over 20 years of age may (that's may) improve its performance. But it may not. Optimods were designed using electrolytic caps that were bigger than necessary so that as they age, they have lots of margin before they affect the low frequency quality. Nice design, Bob! The result is that many 30 year old Optimods work almost as well today as they did in 1982. I think it would be hard to justify spending $1,500 refurbishing an old Optimod when there are hotter digital processors available for the same money. I'd stick an eq in line with the 424 and adjust it for a nice sound and come back to the situation when more money is available.
 
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