Profanity

[Casey]

I don't see anything wrong with profanity in songs as long as it is done tastefully. By that I mean as long as it isn't just for the sake of swearing. There are few songs that meet that.

 

[Jay Walker]

I don't see anything wrong with profanity in songs as long as it is done tastefully. By that I mean as long as it isn't just for the sake of swearing. There are few songs that meet that.

Sorry for dredging up this old thread but I thought I'd add my bit to it all beit late...

On "profanity" I know all the "words" and after 50 plus laps around the sun I am well versed in their creative uses. That said, I wonder how is it we were able for decades to have "hits" without gratuitous profanity? Seems to me the current usage/abuse is more about a quick way to generate buzz rather than artistic story telling.

For years there were the so-called "party" tapes where the usage of profanity was for the raw shock value. I'd put the early David Allen Coe releases into that category along with the other under the counter party/music releases of that period. Note "under the counter" usually meant these were NOT played on the air.

The CDB's "Devil Went Down" with the edit had the same "strength" with the sanitized lyrics as well as the full bore SOB version. Same with JC's A Boy Named Sue. JC's album version was not edited whereas the single release was.

Seems we had a better understanding of what was once referred to as "Standards and Practices" back in the day. We played stuff "lyric friendly" enough that even though the content was usually about broken romances, adultery, getting drunk, and the other hard side of life problems we did it with class..

What I find most objectionable today are the overly "tight edits" where the change involves something along the lines of Sh-t or F-ck, in other words the edit removes a vowel and basically leaves the word intact so there's no mistaking the original content or sound so why bother? In these cases a 500hz tone blip would convey the implied phrasing perfectly... Instead of a poor CYA "edit".

Again I'm not a prude, and I know how to hold my own with the best out there as a swearing SOB, but seriously, is this the image country wishes to project? What's next, wearing your Levi's at knee level, and your Stetson or Resistol on sideways or backwards?

A small point in the scheme of things, but the lowering of standards in the format does take away some of the "charm" of the story-lines music once had.
It lowers a great traditional music genre down to the level of "pop" music. That is a sad thing as with "pop" many songs popular today are forgotten within 20 years. Yet everyone knows anything by Conway, Ernest Tubb's "Two Glasses Joe", Webb Pierce "There stands the Glass" or "Back Street Affair" along with Tammy's "D-I-V-O-R-C-E", and the thousands of other songs 40 or more years later...

The artists were able to tell a "Wild Side of Life" story and do it with class and without gratuitous language... Seems to me that required more talent then than today..

Thanks for the opportunity to vent.

Jay Walker

 

[James Otto Sweet Heart]

I don't see anything wrong with profanity in songs as long as it is done tastefully. By that I mean as long as it isn't just for the sake of swearing. There are few songs that meet that.

This is pretty much how I feel I guess. I don't encourage it, but if it has to be around, keep it to a minimum.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

 

[firepoint525]

The CDB's "Devil Went Down" with the edit had the same "strength" with the sanitized lyrics as well as the full bore SOB version. Same with JC's A Boy Named Sue. JC's album version was not edited whereas the single release was.

Okay, fine, but where can you find the "son of a gun" version of "Devil Went to Georgia"? Is it even commercially available anywhere anymore?

What I find most objectionable today are the overly "tight edits" where the change involves something along the lines of Sh-t or F-ck, in other words the edit removes a vowel and basically leaves the word intact so there's no mistaking the original content or sound so why bother? In these cases a 500hz tone blip would convey the implied phrasing perfectly... Instead of a poor CYA "edit".

Agreed, that never made any sense to me, either.

 

[Jay Walker]

The CDB's "Devil Went Down" with the edit had the same "strength" with the sanitized lyrics as well as the full bore SOB version. Same with JC's A Boy Named Sue. JC's album version was not edited whereas the single release was.

Okay, fine, but where can you find the "son of a gun" version of "Devil Went to Georgia"? Is it even commercially available anywhere anymore?

What I find most objectionable today are the overly "tight edits" where the change involves something along the lines of Sh-t or F-ck, in other words the edit removes a vowel and basically leaves the word intact so there's no mistaking the original content or sound so why bother? In these cases a 500hz tone blip would convey the implied phrasing perfectly... Instead of a poor CYA "edit".

Agreed, that never made any sense to me, either.

I'm lucky as I have the original 45 radio release but I've found it in the past as a re-issue at places like Ernest Tubb Record Shop in Fort Worth. The funniest edit I'd heard was taking the SOB clip and flipping it backwards in the song. Funny and it let you know a "whoopies" came by...

Also Jones/TM/Gold Disc had both versions around as well on CD. Don't misunderstand my thoughts, It's nothing to really get hung up over in general, but having witnessed the gradual decline of "standards and practices" over the years, it would be sad to see Country devolve into the lyrical mess that, granted I'm painting with a BROAD BUSH, pop music has allowed itself to slide into...

 

[scott salvatori]

Don't misunderstand my thoughts, It's nothing to really get hung up over in general, but having witnessed the gradual decline of "standards and practices" over the years, it would be sad to see Country devolve into the lyrical mess that, granted I'm painting with a BROAD BUSH, pop music has allowed itself to slide into...

that may be up to the gate keepers at centralized/independent radio programming, record companies, and image marketing groups. much of the major market demographic young countrypolitan radio audience they market to, is rather "green", and has limited knowledge and historical perspective on the format. this is ripe pickins for the slippery slope of devolution. weve pretty much seen that the last ten, fifteen years. with the thought being, an artist/group even though designated as country, may get more attention and airplay geared to that younger urban green demo if their under garments spill out to match their potty mouth. yep, it may get to the point where in order to be commercially successful, that the traditional country cowboy hat, boot jean wearin' rube, will go the way of dads oldsmobile. once again, that is up to the gate keeper engineers, who control the product and the image that the young ears and eyes hear and see.

 

[Jay Walker]

Don't misunderstand my thoughts, It's nothing to really get hung up over in general, but having witnessed the gradual decline of "standards and practices" over the years, it would be sad to see Country devolve into the lyrical mess that, granted I'm painting with a BROAD BUSH, pop music has allowed itself to slide into...

that may be up to the gate keepers at centralized/independent radio programming, record companies, and image marketing groups. much of the major market demographic young countrypolitan radio audience they market to, is rather "green", and has limited knowledge and historical perspective on the format. this is ripe pickins for the slippery slope of devolution. weve pretty much seen that the last ten, fifteen years. with the thought being, an artist/group even though designated as country, may get more attention and airplay geared to that younger urban green demo if their under garments spill out to match their potty mouth. yep, it may get to the point where in order to be commercially successful, that the traditional country cowboy hat, boot jean wearin' rube, will go the way of dads oldsmobile. once again, that is up to the gate keeper engineers, who control the product and the image that the young ears and eyes hear and see.

Well at this point it's pretty much up to the few and far between "Mom and Pop" owners around to lead the charge.

***crickets***

Well maybe not...
It's too bad the labels and industry management seem to think it's always easier to go for the lowest common denominator for a quick sale.

 

[scott salvatori]

yep, it really is up to a few stubburn small/medium market mom and pop/independent ownerships in heavy country music lifestyle regions to carry that torch.

programming for them young demographic major market countrypolitan AQH'rs, is like feeding the kids. hey kids coco puffs, or a stick of broccoli? they'll always go for the coco puffs.


"im just a redneck in a rock n roll bar, theyre starin at me like a bug in a jar"
yep, jerry reed, we know! RIP old friend

 

[Jay Walker]

yep, it really is up to a few stubburn small/medium market mom and pop/independent ownerships in heavy country music lifestyle regions to carry that torch.

programming for them young demographic major market countrypolitan AQH'rs, is like feeding the kids. hey kids coco puffs, or a stick of broccoli? they'll always go for the coco puffs.


"im just a redneck in a rock n roll bar, theyre starin at me like a bug in a jar"
yep, jerry reed, we know! RIP old friend

I sure miss the standard bearers that Great Empire was in the day. Mike Oatman and Mike Lynch really set the standard and raised the bar for the format even in Country's darkest days. KFDI, KVOO, KWKH and WOW really saved the fort from the "savages" back in the day.

Now... what's let after the various sales are cookie cutters...

 

[jfrancispastirchak]

I don't see anything wrong with profanity in songs as long as it is done tastefully. By that I mean as long as it isn't just for the sake of swearing. There are few songs that meet that.

Sorry for dredging up this old thread but I thought I'd add my bit to it all beit late...

On "profanity" I know all the "words" and after 50 plus laps around the sun I am well versed in their creative uses. That said, I wonder how is it we were able for decades to have "hits" without gratuitous profanity? Seems to me the current usage/abuse is more about a quick way to generate buzz rather than artistic story telling.

For years there were the so-called "party" tapes where the usage of profanity was for the raw shock value. I'd put the early David Allen Coe releases into that category along with the other under the counter party/music releases of that period. Note "under the counter" usually meant these were NOT played on the air.

The CDB's "Devil Went Down" with the edit had the same "strength" with the sanitized lyrics as well as the full bore SOB version. Same with JC's A Boy Named Sue. JC's album version was not edited whereas the single release was.

Seems we had a better understanding of what was once referred to as "Standards and Practices" back in the day. We played stuff "lyric friendly" enough that even though the content was usually about broken romances, adultery, getting drunk, and the other hard side of life problems we did it with class..

What I find most objectionable today are the overly "tight edits" where the change involves something along the lines of Sh-t or F-ck, in other words the edit removes a vowel and basically leaves the word intact so there's no mistaking the original content or sound so why bother? In these cases a 500hz tone blip would convey the implied phrasing perfectly... Instead of a poor CYA "edit".

Again I'm not a prude, and I know how to hold my own with the best out there as a swearing SOB, but seriously, is this the image country wishes to project? What's next, wearing your Levi's at knee level, and your Stetson or Resistol on sideways or backwards?

A small point in the scheme of things, but the lowering of standards in the format does take away some of the "charm" of the story-lines music once had.
It lowers a great traditional music genre down to the level of "pop" music. That is a sad thing as with "pop" many songs popular today are forgotten within 20 years. Yet everyone knows anything by Conway, Ernest Tubb's "Two Glasses Joe", Webb Pierce "There stands the Glass" or "Back Street Affair" along with Tammy's "D-I-V-O-R-C-E", and the thousands of other songs 40 or more years later...

The artists were able to tell a "Wild Side of Life" story and do it with class and without gratuitous language... Seems to me that required more talent then than today..

Thanks for the opportunity to vent.

Jay Walker

Very refreshing, common sense views. I share your sentiments.

 

[firepoint525]

I'm lucky as I have the original 45 radio release but I've found it in the past as a re-issue at places like Ernest Tubb Record Shop in Fort Worth. The funniest edit I'd heard was taking the SOB clip and flipping it backwards in the song. Funny and it let you know a "whoopies" came by...

Gonna repost what I posted last time someone made a suggestion like that.

One of our local stations (can't remember which one) played a version that went "I done tole you once you son of a" [1-second pause][crowd going "awwwwww"] because there was some community complaints (letters to the editor, that kind of thing) about stations playing the "SOB" version.
So I don't think country's ever been "family friendly" around here either...

Wouldn't it have been easier (and a lot less obvious!) to just go ahead and play the "son of a gun" version?

 

[bturner]

My question would be if we have lost the creative ability. Many of the cartoons I saw as kids had adult meanings I never got until I saw them years later. Their was the Seinfeld show where Elaine was questioned on each new boyfriend as to whether he was 'spongeworthy' following her contraceptive sponge being discontinued. "Spongeworthy" said alot but in a way you don't have to run the kids out of the room (cussing under their breath because they want to watch).

While nearly everyone throws out a 4 letter word here or there, most control their language except in private settings so they do not offend those around them. Maybe that is worth saving.

 

[Kent T]

Profanity in Country Music is nothing new, it goes back to the 1930's. There were lots of Jimmie Davis tunes which mentioned things which would not be airable today either. And there is at least one Roy Acuff classic in the genre under the name of the Bang Boys. And Conway Twitty and Loretta Lynn were pushing the envelope in 1973 with such great classics as "The Pill" and "You Never Been This Far Before"

 

[jfrancispastirchak]

Profanity in Country Music is nothing new, it goes back to the 1930's. There were lots of Jimmie Davis tunes which mentioned things which would not be airable today either. And there is at least one Roy Acuff classic in the genre under the name of the Bang Boys. And Conway Twitty and Loretta Lynn were pushing the envelope in 1973 with such great classics as "The Pill" and "You Never Been This Far Before"

Don't recall Loretta's vocals in You've Never Been This Far..., nor Conway singing in The Pill.

 

[James Otto Sweet Heart]

I could be wrong, but I don't think that the A word was said as much during songs back in the day as it is now if it was ever said at all back then.

"Get off your asses and raise your glasses..."-Gretchen Wilson's "I Got Your Country Right Here"
"I got some wild ass buddies..."-Blake Shelton's "Its All About Tonight"
"We'll put a boot in your ass..."-Toby Keith's "Courtesy of the Red, White, & Blue"
"All you're going to see is asses and elbows..."-Sugarland's "Down In Mississippi & Up To No Good"
"Kiss my country ass."-Blake Shelton's song of the same name
"You can kiss my ass."-Garth Brooks' live copy of "Friends In Low Places"
"They've never drove through Indiana, met the men who plowed that earth, planted that seed, and busted his ass for you and me."-Jason Aldean's "Fly Over States"
"Why does everybody want to kick my ass."-Big & Rich's "Kick My Ass"
"She don't like to play my kind of music, so I had to tell that girl to kiss my ass."-Ray Scott's "My Kind of Music"
"I got a 'What are you looking at ------?' smirk!"-Trace Adkins' "Rough & Ready"
"It means 'Drink it all down 'til you see the bottom of the glass.' and it's kicking your ass."-Kenny Chesney's "Tequila Loves Me"

God bless you always!!!

Holly

P.S. To me, with there being references to finger flipping in country music too already, country is getting too R-rated. In my opinion, barely PG-13 is the furthest that it should ever go.

 

[jfrancispastirchak]

I could be wrong, but I don't think that the A word was said as much during songs back in the day as it is now if it was ever said at all back then.

"Get off your asses and raise your glasses..."-Gretchen Wilson's "I Got Your Country Right Here"
"I got some wild ass buddies..."-Blake Shelton's "Its All About Tonight"
"We'll put a boot in your ass..."-Toby Keith's "Courtesy of the Red, White, & Blue"
"All you're going to see is asses and elbows..."-Sugarland's "Down In Mississippi & Up To No Good"
"Kiss my country ass."-Blake Shelton's song of the same name
"You can kiss my ass."-Garth Brooks' live copy of "Friends In Low Places"
"They've never drove through Indiana, met the men who plowed that earth, planted that seed, and busted his ass for you and me."-Jason Aldean's "Fly Over States"
"Why does everybody want to kick my ass."-Big & Rich's "Kick My Ass"
"She don't like to play my kind of music, so I had to tell that girl to kiss my ass."-Ray Scott's "My Kind of Music"
"I got a 'What are you looking at ------?' smirk!"-Trace Adkins' "Rough & Ready"
"It means 'Drink it all down 'til you see the bottom of the glass.' and it's kicking your ass."-Kenny Chesney's "Tequila Loves Me"

God bless you always!!!

Holly

P.S. To me, with there being references to finger flipping in country music too already, country is getting too R-rated. In my opinion, barely PG-13 is the furthest that it should ever go.

Kinda makes you miss Gentleman Jim Reeves, ey?

 

[James Otto Sweet Heart]

^^^ That right there is just it. I wasn't even thought of yet back when he was popular.

God bless you always!!!

Holly (age 30)

P.S. The only song from him that I know of is "An Old Christmas Card".

 

[jfrancispastirchak]

^^^ That right there is just it. I wasn't even thought of yet back when he was popular.
God bless you always!!!
Holly (age 30)
P.S. The only song from him that I know of is "An Old Christmas Card".

My favorite Jim Reeves numbers: Four Walls & He'll Have To Go. Nothing suggestive, no profanity, just beautiful love ballads. Pull them up and take a listen, Holly. Got a hunch you'll recall having heard both of these standards at some point in time, maybe on a current 30-minute TV infomerical. They are truly classics, dirt-free.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

My favorite Jim Reeves numbers: Four Walls & He'll Have To Go. Nothing suggestive, no profanity, just beautiful love ballads. Pull them up and take a listen, Holly. Got a hunch you'll recall having heard both of these standards at some point in time, maybe on a current 30-minute TV infomerical. They are truly classics, dirt-free.

My favorite from Jim Reeves is "The Blizzard." Well-written lyric, not over produced. Unfortunately, there's no one for it to resonate with today: no one travels by horse, especially not in a blizzard.

 

[firepoint525]

"You can kiss my ass."-Garth Brooks' live copy of "Friends In Low Places"

I remember playing the live version of "Friends in Low Places" at the station where I was working at the time. The "kiss my ass" line wouldn't have bothered me, and probably didn't bother the PD, but he was concerned that the GM would hear it. I told him that I could listen closely to it, and "clip" it when it got to that point, and did so. The PD told me the next day that the GM heard it, and heard me "clip" it. So I guess that all was well! (I don't think that I was even aware of the "kiss my ass" line in that one until the PD told me about it. But I should point out that there was no admonition on the CD jewel box not to play it, nor was it ever taken out of the control room, that I was aware of.)