Program Directors vs. Music Directors

[SomeRadioGuy]

No surprise to anyone with half a brain cell, but i'm more than the Program director and music director here.

I'm the assistant cleaning person, the assistant engineer (the real CE is 250 miles away)... mail getter, snow shoveler and moose shooer awayer

 

[TheBigA]

I'm the assistant cleaning person, the assistant engineer (the real CE is 250 miles away)... mail getter, snow shoveler and moose shooer awayer

When I think of your situation, I'm reminded of Chris Stevens, the DJ of KBHR in Cicily Alaska. Here's a clip of his last show. He used a Shure SM 7 without windscreen:

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

When I think of your situation, I'm reminded of Chris Stevens, the DJ of KBHR in Cicily Alaska. Here's a clip of his last show. He used a Shure SM 7 without windscreen:

To shoe away moses, i bang a shovel on the porch and slam the door a few times.. lol

The mayor used to work for me.

My one paid employee is a high school student

My one volunteer is a pilot/airplane mechanic/can do minor welding/electric repairs/ham radio operator/substitute teacher/EMT and when i ask nicely, she cuts my hair (and does a decent job at it)

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

Few stations would have had something so formal as a staff meeting each week. If the station had live personalities around the clock, there would be no mutually agreeable time for a staff meeting - and the jock on the air would have had to divide his attention from doing his actual job.

More likely the PD/MD posted a typewritten list of the rotation categories records for the week in the studio, and made sure those records/carts were in the right places in the studio.

Thank you ! I have worked at businesses where the staff was required to all assemble for meetings during times when the business was closed -- so almost everyone could attend. So, I was thinking that was how a radio station operated. But for 24/7 stations, obviously, someone always had to be at the mike -- or they had to go to pre-recorded programming. Thank you for posting this information. 🙂

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

No surprise to anyone with half a brain cell, but i'm more than the Program director and music director here.

I'm the assistant cleaning person, the assistant engineer (the real CE is 250 miles away)... mail getter, snow shoveler and moose shooer awayer

Paul, I know that the listeners are very grateful to you and appreciate all your hard work. Radio is definitely a form of performing arts; and in any superior art form, a lot of love and personal attention go into that. Including shooing away moose. 👍 Thank you on behalf of the listeners in McGrath and everyone within KSKO's signal area. 🙂

We've covered this before a few times on the San Francisco board, but so no one is confused by what's been written above:

The revival of KFRC as a classic hits station at 106.9 FM came on May 17, 2007, replacing the "Free FM" talk format (the previous oldies format KFRC at 99.7 was replaced by "Movin 99.7" on September 22, 2006).

But less than a year and a half later, October 27, 2008, CBS killed KFRC for a simulcast of KCBS (740 AM). It kept the KFRC call letters, which is why the legal ID for KCBS includes "KFRC-FM and HD-1".

At that time, CBS put a jockless version of KFRC online and on 106.9 HD-2. The music library (which might be 200 songs) is meant to evoke the sound of KFRC (then on 610 AM) in its 1970s-era peak, and the jingles are from that era, including the station ID, which is voiced over the 1976-77 "You" campaign ID:

Apart from the one spot per hour (for years, it was GEICO---I haven't listened long enough recently to know what it is now, but it's almost certainly just a bonus spot for an advertiser on another station in the Audacy SF cluster), NOTHING---not the music, not the jingles, not the IDs---has been touched in 14-plus years.

The legal ID says "...and directly from KFRC-dot-com." That site hasn't existed in at least ten years---since then it's linked to Radio.com and now to Audacy.com.

Traffic updates the one commercial (which is just a matter of a keystroke or two) and IT maintains the server and that's it. It's the equivalent of a Spotify playlist with a commercial, a top-of-the-hour ID and some jingles. The songs are pretty uniformly three to four minutes long, so hitting the legal ID anywhere between :58 and :02 is no sweat---not that anyone in the building knows or cares.

Thank you, Michael ! I understand now that what I was listening to is literally "old school" if it hasn't been touched in 14 years. I should have read the entries on the San Francisco board first. As always, thanks for providing the exact information about this topic. -- Daryl🙂

 

[Mikey Radio]

To shoe away moses, i bang a shovel on the porch and slam the door a few times.. lol

Why would you want to shoe away "moses"? What if that's the week he was due to part the Red Sea or somethin'?

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

Why would you want to shoe away "moses"? What if that's the week he was due to part the Red Sea or somethin'?

mooses.. moses..... ive freely admitted that im glad my PD/on air skills dont depend on my typing

 

[gr8oldies]

mooses.. moses..... ive freely admitted that im glad my PD/on air skills dont depend on my typing

Must be this one.

 

[Weiserguy]

That said, there have been some tremendous women as Program Directors as well: I believe Rochelle Staab was the first female PD in L.A. at KIIS-AM-FM, from 1976-1978. Since then, just off the top of my head, my former boss and friend Crys Quimby was PD at KFWB from 1996-2003 and Robin Bertolucci has been the PD at KFI for 20 years.

I know this was almost two weeks ago, and the LOS ANGELES board, but as a child of the 60's from The Great City, the Big Apple, New York New York, I feel compelled to add to this: Starting in the very late 50's and into about 1968, Ruth Meyer was the first woman PD of a significant NYC station, and that was WMCA . She was the PD who introduced the WMCA Good Guys, a programming concept so successful that for years it beat 50KW (clear channel) 77WABC and 50KW (directional) 1010WINS when both were Top 40's, at least in those counties where WMCA's 5KW directional signal was competitive, which meant the five boroughs and adjacent counties. Ruth Meyer was way ahead of her time, and she should get a mention in any discussion of early women programmers.

 

[davideduardo]

That said, there have been some tremendous women as Program Directors as well: I believe Rochelle Staab was the first female PD in L.A. at KIIS-AM-FM, from 1976-1978. Since then, just off the top of my head, my former boss and friend Crys Quimby was PD at KFWB from 1996-2003 and Robin Bertolucci has been the PD at KFI for 20 years.

Less known outside the Hispanic media world, there is a very successful programmer who created in 2000 the music format that became the national "Recuerdo" network. Amalia González began doing shows on XEPRS, taping hour-long segments that were taken across the border to Rosarito to be broadcast. She moved to middays on KTNQ while doing morning news on KMEX (TV).

Then at KRCD she worked with me to create a new format joining what were considered up till then incompatible music genres. When Clear Channel started to roll out Spanish language stations, she put her format on in Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Chicago, McAllen, Austin, Phoenix, San Diego, Fresno, San Francisco and Las Vegas as well as several syndicated markets and in most had the #1 Spanish language station.

On top of that, she co-starred in four Mexican action movies!

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

I know this was almost two weeks ago, and the LOS ANGELES board, but as a child of the 60's from The Great City, the Big Apple, New York New York, I feel compelled to add to this: Starting in the very late 50's and into about 1968, Ruth Meyer was the first woman PD of a significant NYC station, and that was WMCA . She was the PD who introduced the WMCA Good Guys, a programming concept so successful that for years it beat 50KW (clear channel) 77WABC and 50KW (directional) 1010WINS when both were Top 40's, at least in those counties where WMCA's 5KW directional signal was competitive, which meant the five boroughs and adjacent counties. Ruth Meyer was way ahead of her time, and she should get a mention in any discussion of early women programmers.

Glad that you brought up Ruth Meyer's name. I knew of no women in radio in the 1950's, and only a few in the 1960's. I was told in the 1960's that radio was really a man's world and that women were not suited for the job. ( it was said that their higher pitched voices sounded irritating over the air). Thank you for the wonderful tribute to Ruth Meyer.

The first woman DJ I ever knew was Mary Turner at KMET 94.7 in 1972. And before that, Sie Holliday had a show Sunday nights at KRLA which lasted about 6 weeks. Then she went back to doing office work behind the scenes.

At KFWB, the morning guy, Bruce Hayes, had his wife sometimes come on the air and give freeway traffic or weather reports as a joke. He called her "Tiger", and she had one of those breathy voices like Marilyn Monroe or Ann-Margret. But, she was on as a comedy bit, not to be taken seriously. That was about 1960 or so.

Michael Hagerty speaks of a program director at KMPC 710, Anita M., I think, in the 70's.

Is the program director the immediate supervisor of the air talent? To whom do the DJ's report, and who manages the DJ's in terms of evaluating them or critiquing their performance, or meeting with them to discuss the ratings in their time slot? Do DJ's even have an immediate supervisor? The reason I ask is -- when I see advertisements for program director openings, one of the requirements is usually about 10 years in radio, with on-air broadcasting experience.

I believe you about Ruth Meyer, no doubt she was very talented, - and I congratulate her on her success. However, if the program director's job is one level above a DJ job, then how was she hired without any on-air experience? ( not implying anything, just wondering). Isn't the DJ with the most experience often the one who is promoted to program director?

I understand about Rosalie Trombley at CKLW, who started as a receptionist, then went to music librarian. And, I understand that there was a very successful woman in the inland empire ( out by San Bernardino Calif) who started out selling spot ads, then advanced to general manager, then to owner But, I am not sure how someone with no actual broadcasting experience could be hired in to supervise on-air broadcast talent. That person would have no knowledge of the job description.

(Not implying anything improper, just wondering).

As program director, don't you also have to know how to work a studio console or the engineer's console on the other side of the glass? Or, don't you have to know something about transmitter issues in case the station won't start up in the morning? Some kind of technical expertise is needed, correct? Someone here had a funny story of one Sunday morning, as an intern, when he went to start the reel-to-reel tape recording of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, when the machine malfunctioned and spilled magnetic tape all over the floor. Aren't technical/ engineer skills needed to operate the equipment? And, David Eduardo has an interesting anecdote where his employees used to call him at 6 in the morning and tell him that the station would not start up. So he made a good decision to hire an overnight staffer. - Daryl

 

[michael hagerty]

Michael Hagerty speaks of a program director at KMPC 710, Anita M., I think, in the 70's.

Alene McKinney was Music Director, not Program Director (I outlined the differences in those roles a couple of weeks ago) from 1963 until her death in 1978. She was succeeded by Tess Russell, who had been at KMPC since 1952. Tess' resume and life was impressive as well:

Teresa Russell, 81; Radio Music Librarian, Talent Coordinator, Producer

Teresa "Tess" Russell, 81, a radio music librarian, talent coordinator and producer of KMPC's "The Dick Wittinghill Show," died Sept. 12 of heart failure at her home in Laguna Beach.

www.latimes.com

 

[michael hagerty]

Is the program director the immediate supervisor of the air talent? To whom do the DJ's report, and who manages the DJ's in terms of evaluating them or critiquing their performance, or meeting with them to discuss the ratings in their time slot? Do DJ's even have an immediate supervisor? The reason I ask is -- when I see advertisements for program director openings, one of the requirements is usually about 10 years in radio, with on-air broadcasting experience.

That's part of the Program Director's job. It's far more complex than that, and rather than re-type it, I'll send you back to the original explanation of the duties of a Music Director and those of a Program Director (again, in the time period we're discussing---a lot has changed): https://www.radiodiscussions.com/threads/program-directors-vs-music-directors.757016/

I believe you about Ruth Meyer, no doubt she was very talented, - and I congratulate her on her success. However, if the program director's job is one level above a DJ job, then how was she hired without any on-air experience? ( not implying anything, just wondering). Isn't the DJ with the most experience often the one who is promoted to program director?

Just googling "Ruth Meyer WMCA radio" would unearth a piece about her on the WABC tribute page, where you'd learn that Ruth graduated from Kansas City Junior College in the early 1950s, wanted to work in newspapers and was given one month by her mother to find a job in newspapers or become a secretary.

With time running out and no newspaper openings, she got hired at KCKN as a commercial writer and programming assistant. That led to a job across the street at WHB, working for owner/PD Todd Storz, who some credit with inventing Top 40 radio. She learned from the architect.

As one of the few people to have worked in a programming position at a successful Top 40 station in those days, she was in demand, got hired at WMGM, New York and then at WMCA, where the GM was also a former Storz guy who knew she knew what she was doing and let her do it.

In the very old days, Program Director was pretty much just a title given to the DJ with the most seniority. Seniority does not make those people talented programmers. Some, of course, were, but some were not. As the business became more competitive, programming technique and theory and no small amount of business and budgeting skills became necessary.

You also seem to think that once a woman walked into a radio station, she wouldn't learn anything about how the equipment worked or other elements of the business, including programming. Wrong.

Look, the day before I got hired the first time, I was a 14-year-old kid with a bike and a stereo who couldn't type. Alene McKinney, Tess Russell and Ruth Meyer had it all over me when they walked in the door.

I've worked in radio stations where the receptionist has been there so long, she could operate any piece of equipment in the building and in some cases, know more than the PD does about them (there's a reason they wrote the Jennifer character in WKRP in Cincinnati that way).

I was told in the 1960's that radio was really a man's world and that women were not suited for the job. ( it was said that their higher pitched voices sounded irritating over the air).

I'm sorry you were told that. It was ignorance and sexism on his part and, as we've seen, not true. Women were working in the field and in high positions. I would hope that several weeks of examples here would have laid that falsehood to rest.

 

[michael hagerty]

Less known outside the Hispanic media world, there is a very successful programmer who created in 2000 the music format that became the national "Recuerdo" network. Amalia González began doing shows on XEPRS, taping hour-long segments that were taken across the border to Rosarito to be broadcast. She moved to middays on KTNQ while doing morning news on KMEX (TV).

Then at KRCD she worked with me to create a new format joining what were considered up till then incompatible music genres. When Clear Channel started to roll out Spanish language stations, she put her format on in Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Chicago, McAllen, Austin, Phoenix, San Diego, Fresno, San Francisco and Las Vegas as well as several syndicated markets and in most had the #1 Spanish language station.

On top of that, she co-starred in four Mexican action movies!

I had heard of Amalia, but didn't know her background. Tremendous. Thanks, David!

I also forgot two other female program directors of the 70s---Bonnie Simmons at KSAN in San Francisco and Sam Bellamy at KMET. Both great PDs.

 

[Weiserguy]

I also forgot two other female program directors of the 70s---Bonnie Simmons at KSAN in San Francisco and Sam Bellamy at KMET. Both great PDs.

Just an FYI, Bonnie Simmons is still alive and active. She does a 2-hour music program (folk, singer-songwriters, etc.) on Pacifica's KPFA in Berkeley every Thursday evening from 8-10. On those weeks when KPFA is shilling for shekels (i.e., Another Pledge Drive, which seem to occur every 6-8 weeks, including this one), Bonnie teams up with Derk Richardson, the host/producer who normally follows her at 10 pm. His musical tastes are a bit more eclectic, and he'll add a bit of Western, a jazz cut or two, and the occasional oldie. They do a live, 8-Midnight program on weeks like this. It's an enjoyable listen if you're into those genres of music (I am).

 

[michael hagerty]

Just an FYI, Bonnie Simmons is still alive and active. She does a 2-hour music program (folk, singer-songwriters, etc.) on Pacifica's KPFA in Berkeley every Thursday evening from 8-10. On those weeks when KPFA is shilling for shekels (i.e., Another Pledge Drive, which seem to occur every 6-8 weeks, including this one), Bonnie teams up with Derk Richardson, the host/producer who normally follows her at 10 pm. His musical tastes are a bit more eclectic, and he'll add a bit of Western, a jazz cut or two, and the occasional oldie. They do a live, 8-Midnight program on weeks like this. It's an enjoyable listen if you're into those genres of music (I am).

Thanks for this, Weiserguy! Glad to hear about this. I believe Sam Bellamy (KMET) is still with us as well, but retired in the Palm Springs area.

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

I'm sorry you were told that. It was ignorance and sexism on his part and, as we've seen, not true. Women were working in the field and in high positions.

HI Michael, Thank you for your empathy. I think in the past 60 years, conditions have changed for the better in terms of working conditions for women and ethnic minorities. The situation took a turn for the better starting about 1977 or so. ( JMO).

Look, the day before I got hired the first time, I was a 14-year-old kid with a bike and a stereo who couldn't type. Alene McKinney, Tess Russell and Ruth Meyer had it all over me when they walked in the door.

You went from being the 14 year old kid with a bike and a stereo to being a talented and successful broadcasting professional, due to your hard work. I wish that I also had been the 14 year old kid who rode my bike over to the radio station and got hired.

As one of the few people to have worked in a programming position at a successful Top 40 station in those days, [Ruth Meyer] was in demand, got hired at WMGM, New York and then at WMCA, where the GM was also a former Storz guy who knew she knew what she was doing and let her do it.

As you say, it's important to do background research on people to find out facts. I had about an hour to spend doing research on Ruth Meyer and was able to listen to some on-air interviews that she did with different radio personalities. I was listening to an interview that Ruth did with Rollye James, who had an overnight show on WGN. Ruth was hired by Todd Storz ( one of the creators of Top 10 radio) to do some copy writing and some programming assistance, but she apparently never held the title o program director at Storz' station WHB in Kansas City.

In talking with Ruth, Rollye James asked an interesting question which went sort of like "Ruth, since Todd Storz was known to have said that no woman should have a job in radio beyond the receptionist's desk, how were you able to convince him to let you take on other duties?" Ruth replies that Storz thought that she was kind of goofy and asked a lot of questions, so he was intrigued by her personality. But the sense I got was that Ruth did not actually hold a title of programming director until Storz helped her find a job in New York, where she eventually ended up with manager Steve Labunski (another Storz protege) at WMCA.

Here's the link to Rollye James' interview with Ruth Meyer:

Rollye James interviews Ruth Meyer

There's a tv/ music message board titled "Steve Hoffman", which has roughly the same format/ interface that we have at Radio Discussions. There was some discussion and recollection of Ruth Meyer after she passed away at age 80:

Here's the Radio Hall of Fame information:

Ruth Meyer


Another fascinating interview with Ruth Meyer was done by Joe Condon at WROW Albany, New York. He also speaks with the president of the New York State Broadcasters Association, Joseph Riley, who says in part......."Ruth was a real pioneer at a time when women weren't recognized. ........It was a male-dominated world, and they weren't givn the opportunities. And some of the more powerful and more talented women like Ruth Meyer emerged despite the discrimination." Here's the You Tube link to Ruth Meyer speaking with Joe Condon back in 1999.

I'm proud of radio pioneers from the 1950s - 1970's like Ruth Meyer, Rosalie Trombley, Bonnie Simmons, Sam Bellamy, and Anita McKinney who used their great talent to break through the glass ceiling and create more equitable working opportunities for everyone.

 

[michael hagerty]

But the sense I got was that Ruth did not actually hold a title of programming director until Storz helped her find a job in New York, where she eventually ended up with manager Steve Labunski (another Storz protege) at WMCA.

Right, which is what I wrote in different words.

Not being a PD in Kansas City is really beside the point.

It seems lost on you that she went to work at WHB in Kansas City in 1955 and in three years (1958), she learned enough from Todd Storz as his programming assistant to be named Program Director of WMGM, New York, and, two years later (1960), to move across the street to the better, stronger, WMCA.

That is an epic, historic and remarkable achievement, and no one in New York City, regardless of their connections with Todd Storz, would risk the future of their radio station unless they knew Ruth could program a winning station.

 

[TomásEstefan]

No, it wasn't. The only time precise timing is necessary is to hit a live event that's starting whether you're ready or not---like a network newscast. 20/20 News began when the record ended. The PD liked it to be close, but there are plenty of airchecks where not only did 20/20 News start a minute or so past :20 or :40, but, whether there was a newscast in that hour or not, the legal ID was "4:01" or "7:02 in Boss Angeles".

Paul Drew, when he became RKO National PD in mid-'73, after Drake left, had been so bugged by it (his previous gig was day-to-day PD of KHJ) that he installed one of those audible top-of-the-hour tones like KMPC used. It only lasted a few weeks because all it did was highlight just how far off the exact top of the hour the legal ID was airing most of the time.

Just my guess but I've always assumed that the 20-20 news idea was a way of "hiding the news". Most stations back in the day had news at the top of the hour just after the legal ID, or at :55 until the legal ID. It served as a method of drawing listeners away from everybody else. KNX and KFWB used the inverse of the concept when BOTH stations scheduled sports at :15 and :45 so that if you didn't want or need a sports update at that time you wouldn't bother to push the other stations button or preset because you're still going to have to sit through 2 minutes of sports news.

 

[michael hagerty]

Just my guess but I've always assumed that the 20-20 news idea was a way of "hiding the news". Most stations back in the day had news at the top of the hour just after the legal ID, or at :55 until the legal ID. It served as a method of drawing listeners away from everybody else. KNX and KFWB used the inverse of the concept when BOTH stations scheduled sports at :15 and :45 so that if you didn't want or need a sports update at that time you wouldn't bother to push the other stations button or preset because you're still going to have to sit through 2 minutes of sports news.

Top and bottom of the hour was traditional. In L.A., Chuck Blore was the first to try alternate news times, with a newscast at :55 and a news feature called "L.A. Today" at :15.

KRLA, which went Top 40 a year later, chose to avoid clutter by putting one big nine-minute newscast on at :50 that would run to a countdown to the ID at :59.

So when Bill Drake launched KHJ, he had to choose. In San Diego, at KGB, which he consulted, the newscasts were at :15 and :45---which would overlap KFWB's :15 and part of KRLA's :50. Not optimal. Top and bottom destroys the staging of the legal ID at the top and bottom of the hour.

So he went with :20 and :40 (though the :20s were very infrequent---and usually in morning drive only). KHJ would be in a newscast
from :40 to :50 and anyone tuning out would run into a newscast on KRLA immediately and on KFWB five minutes later. Meantime, KHJ would often be in a music sweep all the way to :06.

By the way, Drake would not have considered "hiding" a newscast. While he wasn't a fan of being forced to do news, he's quoted as saying "If we have to do news---it's gonna be the best news." And the RKO Top 40 stations had tremendous news organizations.