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Programming a 2nd-tier station...

Hypothetical situation: You're a new programmer for a news/talk in a mid-sized market which is ranked by Arbitron between #25 and #75. However, the station is not the leading news/talk station. Instead a long time heritage station is, and here is what their schedule looks like:

5-9AM: Local AM host
9AM-12PM: Glenn Beck
12-3PM: Rush Limbaugh
3-7PM: Local PM host
7-10PM: Sean Hannity
10-12AM: Mark Levin
12AM-5AM: Coast to Coast

What's a programmer at a second-tier station to do?  ??? I know a lot of second-tier go all syndicated, but I think being both local and syndicated is best. Perhaps instead of trying to get a talker do news instead. Perhaps like this:

5AM-6AM: America in the Morning or First Light
6-9AM: Local news
9AM-4PMish: Syndicated talkers
4-7PM: Local news
7-10PM: Syndicated
10-1AM: Jim Bohannon
1-5AM: Maybe repeat Bohannon, or throw Phil Hendrie in there.

Any thoughts?
 
Where's Savage? Or Ed Schulz? Or Dave Ramsey? Or Local Sports Talk?

Savage could work from 5-8 or 7-10 on tape. If you put Savage on 7-10, you could do local from 4-6 and then an hour of local Sports Talk from 6-7.

Put something different on against Rush (Schulz or Ramsey).

You've got a lot of options. Now if you were the third talker, the pickings get slimmer.
 
It's hard to comment without knowing which market this is? Are you referring to an actual station (sounds a bit like WJNO if Randi is still "local"; can't think of what else it would be). Depending on what the heritage station is doing (presumably a "Newsradio", "when you need to know", "your official weather station" gig), I'd plan accordingly. The market you're in also could dictate some things - some cities are more friendly than others and wouldn't warm up to certain kinds of shows. There are a lot of factors involved.

To start, if you're in the south, I'd pick up Dave Ramsey. If you're elsewhere, I'd pick up Dr. Laura. Run one of them against Rush. I'd be open to doing politics against Rush if it were someone entertaining like Beck or Stephanie Miller (although I wouldn't mix ideologies, especially as only the second talk station).

As much as I think getting the morning audience is overrated when it comes to being a second or their tier station, your best bet would be to get a very compelling morning show. You mentioned doing news in the morning - isn't the heritage station doing that? Most of the top talkers in the markets you mention do a morning news hybrid with a lot of information and service elements. It's the second tier stations like yours that bring in the yellers and screamers who have no idea what they're talking about and eventually BECOME #1. So while I am all in favor of an information-centric morning show, don't do it if your competition is doing the same thing. Take advantage of the fact that "Morning News" shows are tune-in, get info, tune-out shows, and build your own local show by focusing on higher TSL. This is why you do talk. Keep traffic to a minimum - it's a waste of time in most cases, people ignore it or tune out, and the heritage station only does it so much to cement their image as the go-to station.

Plus, if the morning guy grabs peoples' attention, he will direct them to your local midday host (yes, that is what I have decided... a local midday host). You COULD run Laura Ingraham 9-noon, but (IMHO) a mediocre national show against a good one doesn't usually work, especially if the better show is on the station that already has a 7 share. If you can afford a decent midday host, do it.

Again, it depends on your market, your budget, your nighttime signal (and when it becomes a factor) as to whether you should have a local PMD host. I'd try and poach Hannity. If you have a decent enough signal and they think you have potential, it could work. Am I right Phil? You'd probably have to keep Levin 6-8 or at least run him before midnight. I would pick up Savage, live or two hours delayed. After 7pm, does anybody really listen? Just put something halfway compelling on. I might also grab Bill O'Reilly for 11pm-1am or something just to give yourselves a selling point with people - everyone knows Bill O'Reilly. It's a crutch until you get some numbers and establish yourself.

Don't get Ed Schultz. CC heritage stations have tried him amidst their mostly RW lineups and he hasn't worked. He won't work for you either. Nothing against the guy, but Phil is right on this point. Savage isn't available until 6pm ET, which judging by your competitor is the time zone you're in. And as for sports talk... if you're the underdog, forget it. Focus on people who want to talk. People who can't get enough of talk about politics or an occassional advice show. Chances are your nighttime signal isn't huge, so you won't have any big sports teams coming after you. Don't take any of the smaller sports teams unless the pay you a lot of money, which they won't. Focus on being talk 24/7, and when your competitor(s) have PBP on, you can image yourself as having "breaking news, even during a ballgame". Play this up. But, in reality, I think sports talk shows work on heritage stations that have done them for eons and people have their dials glued there and will always come back. They won't be as forgiving with you.
 
Some other suggestions for syndicated shows: Laura Ingraham (TRN), Bill O'Reilly (WWI), Clark Howard (Cox), and Rusty Humphries (TRN). It's not the best line-up, but at least it's competitive.
 
Take a good look at 630 KHOW here in Denver. They are a second teir station and do great in morning drive with Peter Boyles and pretty good the rest of the day.
 
Plus, if the morning guy grabs peoples' attention, he will direct them to your local midday host (yes, that is what I have decided... a local midday host).

A good point. Most second-tier stations have greatly reduced nighttime coverage, so it's useless to do anything local before 8 a.m. or so.
 
I'm on the third tier station and one of the things that kills us is winter signal and pattern. After sundown and before the sun comes up it's tough.
 
KJCB...what is it about Ed Schulz that doesn't work? It seems like he'd be a logical counter to Rush and other local midday right wingers. Is that not so? Would you run Stephanie Miller on delay instead?
 
I'm not against Ed Schultz. He's one of the two tried and true talents on PT. With all of the options for conservative and advice shows, I wouldn't be mixing ideologies on a second-tier station. The competition only has Beck and Rush; there's a lot left before I'd be confusing and ticking off listeners. Ed Schultz has not worked on numerous stations with all-RW talk, including a couple CC RW talkers in the rust belt, where you'd think Ed would shine. He also didn't do that well on WJNO in WPB, even following Randi Rhodes.

If you want Ed, go all PT. If you are willing to have 1, maybe 2, local shows, PT might work. But a secondary RW station would likely do better.
 
NIghts I would go Savage or Lars Larson, mornings I would go with Laura and then Beck and maybe Dennis Miller
 
Well, you could counterprogram on a number of fronts:

5 to 6 a.m.: America in the Morning
6 to 9 a.m.: Local news
9 a.m. to noon: Stephanie Miller
Noon to 3 p.m.: Ed Schultz
3 to 5 p.m.: Lou Dobbs (starting March 3)
5 to 7 p.m.: Local news
7 to 10 p.m.: Bruce Williams
10 p.m. to 1 a.m.: Jim Bohannon
1 to 5 a.m.: Joey Reynolds

All syndicated programming would air live if in the Eastern time zone.

Until Lou Dobbs begins airing, Clark Howard can air live from 3 to 4 and Dr. Dean Edell can air live from 4 to 5.
 
How about live, local shows at least in mornings and afternoons. Maybe even mid days?
 
Sean Gilbow said:
Well, you could counterprogram on a number of fronts:

5 to 6 a.m.: America in the Morning
6 to 9 a.m.: Local news
9 a.m. to noon: Stephanie Miller
Noon to 3 p.m.: Ed Schultz
3 to 5 p.m.: Lou Dobbs (starting March 3)
5 to 7 p.m.: Local news
7 to 10 p.m.: Bruce Williams
10 p.m. to 1 a.m.: Jim Bohannon
1 to 5 a.m.: Joey Reynolds

All syndicated programming would air live if in the Eastern time zone.

Until Lou Dobbs begins airing, Clark Howard can air live from 3 to 4 and Dr. Dean Edell can air live from 4 to 5.

Sean, I love you, but please check your calendar. The year is 2008.
 
What about going the entertainment / light talk route for the locally done morning or afternoon shows? WAPI in Birmingham seemed to do well with ex-morning show guy Richard Dixon running afternoons on this 2nd tier AM talker, and his morning show style balanced nicely with his good interviewing skills. He eventually moved into "The Breakfast Club" show which wasn't all that serious, and it too seemed to do well versus the competition.

Of course, Dixon has left for greener pastures in Tampa (?) so dunno what they'd replaced him with. Anywho, all that political talk gets old, which is why I like the idea of different styles interspersed throughout the day. Maybe some financial talk (Clark Howard is my fave) or relationship/love stuff like Dr. Drew or Dr. Laura, depending on the demos.

One name not yet mentioned in Neal Boortz. His show can be entertaining sometimes since he doesn't really fit the Democrat / Republican mold, being more of a libertarian on issues. (And despite airing from Atlanta, there is absolutely nothing southern about it; Atlanta's a microcosm of the entire freaking world these days.)
 
KJCB said:
Sean Gilbow said:
Well, you could counterprogram on a number of fronts:

5 to 6 a.m.: America in the Morning
6 to 9 a.m.: Local news
9 a.m. to noon: Stephanie Miller
Noon to 3 p.m.: Ed Schultz
3 to 5 p.m.: Lou Dobbs (starting March 3)
5 to 7 p.m.: Local news
7 to 10 p.m.: Bruce Williams
10 p.m. to 1 a.m.: Jim Bohannon
1 to 5 a.m.: Joey Reynolds

All syndicated programming would air live if in the Eastern time zone.

Until Lou Dobbs begins airing, Clark Howard can air live from 3 to 4 and Dr. Dean Edell can air live from 4 to 5.

Sean, I love you, but please check your calendar. The year is 2008.

Well, that's more than any guy I met on gay dating sites said to me recently.

And did Dustin not say this was a hypothetical?
 
Thanks everyone for their insight!

I can't imagine trying program a 3rd tier or 4th tier station. Say hello to Jim Sumpter and Tammy Bruce!
 
dustintv said:
Thanks everyone for their insight!

I can't imagine trying program a 3rd tier or 4th tier station. Say hello to Jim Sumpter and Tammy Bruce!

Those are programs that run when there are so many existing talk stations that there is no more room on the AM band.
 
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