Proof that hearing Hotel California repeatedly will drive you crazy

[TheBigA]

Okay, but let's get serious for a moment. Are you there to deliver music for the listener, or advertising for the advertiser?

Both. It's not a one or the other thing. The fact that millions of listeners are choosing country over other formats is a success for the programming staff. The fact that those listeners translate into advertising is success for the sales staff. All in all, it's a success.

When is the last time you played "Achy Breaky Heart" over country radio?

We played it when it was a hit, and it sold 9 million records. That's all that matters. We also don't play "The Wind Beneath My Wings" and lots of other songs that were once popular, and aren't any more.

 

[firepoint525]

Both. It's not a one or the other thing. The fact that millions of listeners are choosing country over other formats is a success for the programming staff. The fact that those listeners translate into advertising is success for the sales staff. All in all, it's a success.
We played it when it was a hit, and it sold 9 million records. That's all that matters. We also don't play "The Wind Beneath My Wings" and lots of other songs that were once popular, and aren't any more.

I hope your stations were not among those that talked up guys like Sanjaya and William Hung, regardless of whether or not you played either of them, and this discussion is regardless of format. I miss our old Americana station, which played some local people in addition to the nationals, and if I wanted to, I probably could have met some of these guys backstage at their local shows, because these groups are/were not so large that doing so would have posed a safety risk to them.

The problem with most stations (again, regardless of format) is that they live very much "in the moment" playing the "flavor of the month" groups and songs, which ironically enough, the very fans for whom those songs were targeted and played in the first place will also be among the first to tell you that they are "sick" of the song, which tells me that they should not have "OD-ed" on it to begin with. Rest assured, if there is any backlash against ANY "flavor of the month" stuff, it will far outlast any support that it had. See "Macarena."

I still remember in the late '80s, when radio stations gave about half a dozen "near-miss" minor hits of the early '80s a second chance, and many of them became hits (a couple of them went to #1) when reissued. But in the early '80s, radio was heavily focused on Michael Jackson at the time, to the point that they missed some of these records on the first go-round. And a few others still get airplay despite never really becoming "hits" at all!

 

[TheBigA]

The problem with most stations (again, regardless of format) is that they live very much "in the moment" playing the "flavor of the month" groups and songs, which ironically enough, the very fans for whom those songs were targeted and played in the first place will also be among the first to tell you that they are "sick" of the song, which tells me that they should not have "OD-ed" on it to begin with.

Look at the subject line of this thread. But yes, radio lives in the moment. That's how you stay relevant.

The thing about The Eagles is songs like Hotel California will be gone from Classic Hits in about 3-5 years, simply because no one under the age of 50 knows it. The Eagles as a group have done a bad job of keeping themselves relevant, by not releasing new music and touring sporadically. That hurts chances of your music lasting beyond the generation that grew up with it. Yes, I know The Beatles are an exception. But they have a better excuse than The Eagles.

 

[Thomps2525]

It's hard for me to imagine a day when radio no longer plays Hotel California...although Elvis Presley and the Beatles are disappearing from radio so I suppose the Eagles and Fleetwood Mac will likewise disappear eventually. I'm looking forward to the year 2020 when KRTH will be playing Believe, One Week, Summer Girls, Heartbreaker, Kryptonite, Always Be My Baby and I Want To Know What Love Is four times a day.

 

[oldies76]

The thing about The Eagles is songs like Hotel California will be gone from Classic Hits in about 3-5 years, simply because no one under the age of 50 knows it.

Yeah Big A..."no one" under 50 knows "Hotel California". I'm sure the parents listening to "Hotel........." 3-5 times a day on classic hits stations nationwide (or in your research, once a month) have already (years ago, if not, decades ago) passed this great song on to their kids by now, especially the ones living in Southern California. "Hotel California" is just as relevant today, as it was back in 1977. And it won't be gone in 3-5 years.

Heck even "Heartbreak Hotel" (1956) is still being spun on select stations.

 

[landtuna]

The wonders of modern technology means I don't have to care what radio plays. I have my library on a couple of flash sticks and can listen to what I want to hear when I want to hear it. No commercials, no drop-outs, no windbag DJ's. Radio has chosen to ignore me so.....likewise.

 

[TheBigA]

I'm sure the parents listening to "Hotel........." 3-5 times a day on classic hits stations nationwide (or in your research, once a month) have already (years ago, if not, decades ago) passed this great song on to their kids by now

But not in the same way. Look, I'm sure you know the songs your parents loved too. But they don't mean the same thing as the songs YOU grew up with and personally experienced. Those are two very different emotions. Being in a car, being force-fed your parents music isn't the same as self-discovery. Put yourself in their place for a minute, and you'll understand.

 

[crainbebo]

I would rather hear Heartbreak Hotel than Hotel California. The Hotel has checked in and out long enough. Give it a damn rest.
And YES there are teens, and pre-teens who like some 60s and 70s music. I went into a record store back in the Seattle area one time and saw a 12 or 13 year old, at the listening station, with headphones over his ears, listening to the sweet sounds of an old LP. I wanted to high five him for that. SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY DOESN'T LISTEN TO AN IPOD FULL OF RAP AND TOP 40 MUSIC!

Songs once popular should still be aired. Like I said before, there's too many 1980s and early 1990s AC songs that have not been spun on major market stations in years. Some by ordinary acts like Elton John and Billy Joel!

-crainbebo

 

[TheBigA]

I would rather hear Heartbreak Hotel than Hotel California. The Hotel has checked in and out long enough. Give it a damn rest.
And YES there are teens, and pre-teens who like some 60s and 70s music.

All that is great. As I often say, radio stations are not personal music devices. If there's something specific you want to hear, and we're not playing it, there is no shortage of options out there. When you choose a radio station, you're choosing the curated list that we create and provide. If that's not what you want, you can create your own in another place. We all know that we don't have a monopoly on the music distribution business any more. So all we aim for is reaching the core mass of people who our advertisers want to reach. And as the latest ratings demonstrate, we are very good at what we do.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

All that is great. As I often say, radio stations are not personal music devices. If there's something specific you want to hear, and we're not playing it, there is no shortage of options out there. When you choose a radio station, you're choosing the curated list that we create and provide. If that's not what you want, you can create your own in another place. We all know that we don't have a monopoly on the music distribution business any more. So all we aim for is reaching the core mass of people who our advertisers want to reach. And as the latest ratings demonstrate, we are very good at what we do.

Big A, I respect your posts and opinions. I do not take the time to do my own personal programming, heck I do not even own an iPod. However, what I do is listen to out of (LA) market streams of real actual over the air radio stations that DO play a VARIETY of songs I like hearing. In the case of adult alternative formatted stations, I often discover music/artists I have never heard or am somewhat unfamiliar with. Or I hear unfamiliar tracks performed by recognizable familiar artists. This is a real treat for my ears. Unlike some ideas expressed here I do NOT break my neck reaching to change the station (stream) when something unfamiliar starts playing. The stations I spend the most time with in the AAA format are NOT in small markets. They are in fairly large size markets: Boston, Portland, New York (suburb), San Francisco. These stations get ratings, most of them in the 2 range. And guess what- they satisfy me very much.

As to my other favorite format Oldies I find stations like WDOJ 1480 in Cincinnati that knows how to put a playlist together. Yes, I know they get no ratings (or don't subscribe); Works for me though! I am recording WDJO's streams and burning that onto permanent CDs because they probably won't be on forever but I will have a permanent recording of them; after all oldies are oldies.

Nice to see the thread I started is closing in on 200 posts. Reminds me of that Bee Gees song that NEVER gets played "I Started a Joke"

 

[TheBigA]

However, what I do is listen to out of (LA) market streams of real actual over the air radio stations that DO play a VARIETY of songs I like hearing.

Just want to point out that you're basically a freeloader. Your streaming is being paid for by people in the station's home market. You are simply an expense. At some point, if the station chooses to limit out-of-market streaming, you'll be out of luck. We in radio want to encourage you to support the artists and music you love by buying their music, rather than burning CDs from free streams. That way, you will help the artists to get more work, show up in charts that might increase their airplay, and factor into the data network that guides programmers towards what's popular. Doing what you're doing doesn't count for anything.

 

[stevensonair]

I seriously doubt that a significant number of streaming listeners are using lower bitrate commercial radio station streams, where in many cases the songs are overlayed with jingles and jock chat to "burn CDs." The return isn't worth the effort. They'll just download the song or use Spotify, etc.

 

[crainbebo]

I suppose he listens to a lot of KINK 101.9 from Portland. That is an incredible AAA station, legendary, has been around for decades. There are some people, even in Seattle, that enjoy listening to KINK streaming and when tropo reception happens as it is a rarity in large market radio.
There are a few stations that have limited streaming to local area only. And how do I pay for a station down in California to stream? By tuning it on and listening to a song? Makes no sense.

-crainbebo

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Just want to point out that you're basically a freeloader. Your streaming is being paid for by people in the station's home market. You are simply an expense. At some point, if the station chooses to limit out-of-market streaming, you'll be out of luck. We in radio want to encourage you to support the artists and music you love by buying their music, rather than burning CDs from free streams. That way, you will help the artists to get more work, show up in charts that might increase their airplay, and factor into the data network that guides programmers towards what's popular. Doing what you're doing doesn't count for anything.

This is exactly what I told Oldies76. When you don't listen to what they want you to listen to, you are denigrated. In this case you are a "freeloader" because you choose to listen to something other than what the local radio oligopoly wants you to listen to. The "freeloader" term is intended to convey that you are a bad person and you are literally taking food off of someone else's table. He also notes that one day these out of market stations you love will cut-off your freeloading ways by only making their streams available to the local market. Then you will be stuck with the local choices, where the Big A knows he now has a chance to get your listenership back.

Local radio knows you have other choices, they just don't like them and will do whatever they can to narrow them. Don't be fooled, that is what iheartradio is all about. If you don't want to listen to CC's crappy commercial-filled stations in your own market, they will gladly give you a choice to listen to any of their other crappy commercial-filled stations in other markets, which we all know sound 90% like each other. I bet none of the out of market stations you listen to are CC ones.

 

[michael hagerty]

Local radio knows you have other choices, they just don't like them and will do whatever they can to narrow them. Don't be fooled, that is what iheartradio is all about. If you don't want to listen to CC's crappy commercial-filled stations in your own market, they will gladly give you a choice to listen to any of their other crappy commercial-filled stations in other markets, which we all know sound 90% like each other. I bet none of the out of market stations you listen to are CC ones.

Almost half of the 1,500 terrestrial radio stations on iHeartRadio are owned by companies other than Clear Channel. Some of them are non-commercial. iHeart also allows you to create your own commercial-free stations with a library of 450,000 artists and more than 18 million songs.

 

[TheBigA]

In this case you are a "freeloader" because you choose to listen to something other than what the local radio oligopoly wants you to listen to. The "freeloader" term is intended to convey that you are a bad person and you are literally taking food off of someone else's table.

That's what you're doing. But it's taking food off the artists' table. You claim to love music, but you think it's OK to steal it. It doesn't hurt me one bit, and it really doesn't hurt radio stations. If it did, they'd simply shut off the stream. We pay for the music we play. In the case of pre-1972 music, artists like The Turtles are suing because their music is being played and they're not getting paid. I'm not saying you're a bad person. The Turtles are saying you're a bad person. So don't put words into my mouth. If you really love music, you won't steal it. All I'm saying is BUY the music rather than record and burn OTA streams. Pay the artist for the music your say you love.

 

[crainbebo]

CC wouldn't TRY to put on Adult Album Alternative. No, every station they launch is either a 200-song country station, a 400-song classic hits station or another CHR like we need Katy Perry on another channel.
92.5 WXRV is Boston's AAA station owned by Northeast Broadcasting, KINK 101.9 in Portland is owned by Alpha Broadcasting - who also owns the big KXL 101.1 FM stick with News/Talk - ex 750 before KXTG.

 

[michael hagerty]

CC wouldn't TRY to put on Adult Album Alternative. No, every station they launch is either a 200-song country station, a 400-song classic hits station or another CHR like we need Katy Perry on another channel.
92.5 WXRV is Boston's AAA station owned by Northeast Broadcasting, KINK 101.9 in Portland is owned by Alpha Broadcasting - who also owns the big KXL 101.1 FM stick with News/Talk - ex 750 before KXTG.

And one of the first, best and most highly-rated AAAs in the country is owned by Clear Channel: KBCO in Denver-Boulder ( http://www.kbco.com/main.html )

If you guys want to not get jumped on by the pros, look stuff up first.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Just want to point out that you're basically a freeloader. Your streaming is being paid for by people in the station's home market. You are simply an expense. At some point, if the station chooses to limit out-of-market streaming, you'll be out of luck. We in radio want to encourage you to support the artists and music you love by buying their music, rather than burning CDs from free streams. That way, you will help the artists to get more work, show up in charts that might increase their airplay, and factor into the data network that guides programmers towards what's popular. Doing what you're doing doesn't count for anything.

So-o-o-o I am simply a bean-counter's "expense"? I resent the label "freeloader". Excuuuuse me, but I HAVE paid my dues. I bought my first record (45 RPM) when I was 9 years old. Before I became a teenager, I bought every record that made the Top 20. While I was a teenager, I bought every record that made the Top 30. As a young adult, I continued buying just about every record I liked. I own or have owned over 10,000 45s, over 4,000 LPs, and over 3,000 CDs. As I approach my senior years, I find the need to spend money elsewhere, not on music. As far as "burning CDs" goes, I use re-recordable CDs so after I have played a CD once, I erase and re-record over it with new programming (except for the oldies radio station CDs, then again I own around a 1,000 CDs of compilation oldies or oldies artists). Now how is that any different from a listener's experience hearing 'free' music on the radio?

Yes, they may stop streaming, but by that time, another 'delivery' option will replace it. By that time I'll either be too old to care or I'll be dead.

Regarding your opinion about supporting the artists, why don't LA area radio stations support those deserving artists by actually PLAYING their music?? As for lil' ol' me, I am just one of the very very very few who do what I do and listen in this manner. I seriously doubt my purchases would impact in any way getting 'more work' for an artist and tell me how that "show up in charts" "that might increase airplay" works and how my purchases will factor in any programmers' decisions. BTW I couldn't care less that what I'm doing "doesn't count for anything".

BTW the streams are not free are they????

 

[TheBigA]

Regarding your opinion about supporting the artists, why don't LA area radio stations support those deserving artists by actually PLAYING their music??

LA radio stations make no pretense of being music fans. They're in the radio business, not the music business. You, on the other hand, are who the artists depend on for their income.

BTW the streams are not free are they????

For whom?