Public Radio Ratings: Rochester/Buffalo/Spring 2007

[Mark Giardina]

Without breaking the rules governing the exact breakdown of 12+ numbers I can report that the average AQH share for public radio stations in Rochester and Buffalo average around 2; Cume rating is between 5 to 6; The average TSL averages 6 hours, which isn’t bad.

At my former employer, I noticed that their AM station did gain audience from the winter book, which is typical, but that their FM station declined. Both stations were equal in the TSL category.

What really surprised me is that the station located at the college in Geneva just slightly beat out the U of R station in the TSL category; however both those stations were far below WGMC, even though the ratings showed WGMC will less than 1% AQH share.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Without breaking the rules governing the exact breakdown of 12+ numbers I can report that the average AQH share for public radio stations in Rochester and Buffalo average around 2; Cume rating is between 5 to 6; The average TSL averages 6 hours, which isn’t bad.

At my former employer, I noticed that their AM station did gain audience from the winter book, which is typical, but that their FM station declined. Both stations were equal in the TSL category.

What really surprised me is that the station located at the college in Geneva just slightly beat out the U of R station in the TSL category; however both those stations were far below WGMC, even though the ratings showed WGMC will less than 1% AQH share.

While public radio has an audience, it's a small one compared to some commercial stations. Yet a 2 share in the ratings beats out a number of these "jukebox" formats with no live announcers. In several markets public stations dumped their music formats in favor of all news and talk. I wonder if the day will come when that happens here in Western NY?

 

[cee]

What really surprised me is that the station located at the college in Geneva just slightly beat out the U of R station in the TSL category;

Maybe it's because they have a devoted following in the Finger Lakes due to more diverse programming, including Democracy Now(which only runs in Rochester because the Metro Justice group purchases the nightly 8pm slot on WROC).

In several markets public stations dumped their music formats in favor of all news and talk. I wonder if the day will come when that happens here in Western NY?

If it's an AM station, that's probably a good idea overall. Although years ago WXXI dropped the popular overnight Blues show in favor of BBC World Service Overnight. That was more an economy measure. The local DJ's puny salary was just too much of a drain on their profit margin(I'm sorry, I forgot - WXXI is not about money at all - just serving the public...yeah, that's the ticket).

 

[audio4tv]

What really surprised me is that the station located at the college in Geneva just slightly beat out the U of R station in the TSL category;

Maybe it's because they have a devoted following in the Finger Lakes due to more diverse programming, including Democracy Now(which only runs in Rochester because the Metro Justice group purchases the nightly 8pm slot on WROC).

In several markets public stations dumped their music formats in favor of all news and talk. I wonder if the day will come when that happens here in Western NY?

If it's an AM station, that's probably a good idea overall. Although years ago WXXI dropped the popular overnight Blues show in favor of BBC World Service Overnight. That was more an economy measure. The local DJ's puny salary was just too much of a drain on their profit margin(I'm sorry, I forgot - WXXI is not about money at all - just serving the public...yeah, that's the ticket).

I think you are reading way too much into the TSL figure, when you are talking about 100 AQH. That is one diary. One listener, likely. Also, the area WEOS serves, including Ithaca, is different than the Rochester metro, which it does not get into. The listenership of the station is mostly TSA only, and with such a small diary count, you will have some pretty wide variations book to book. TSL will usually be more for stations that are music. Thus, I would expect WGMC and WXXI-FM to be higher than an news/talk station, especially at work. Classical Music makes nice background audio for the office. Having looked at the actual diaries of the spring book, there is more than meets the eye in terms of why things are the way they are in the data. The Winter book was also very odd, in terms of shifts that did not make a lot of sense. The Spring book is a bit more normal for most public radio stations. FYI, dropping the all night Jazz/Blues for BBC on an all news station, just makes programming sense. It really is a better fit for the AM program schedule.

 

[cee]

FYI, dropping the all night Jazz/Blues for BBC on an all news station, just makes programming sense. It really is a better fit for the AM program schedule.

They weren't doing all news when they dropped the show several years ago. They used to run syndicated music programming in the earlier evening hours as well. Public be damned though - let's eliminate a job and put on BBC stuff - how many people are listening to that at 1am - 5 people maybe, tops? WEBR(now WNED) did the same thing years ago when they dropped Jazz at night. If they had budgetary problems back then, it had to be their own fault. Let's see, lots of empty real estate throughout Erie County, but they had to spend millions to build Mike Collin's eternal monument to himself. What incredible saps people are to give these public broadcasting huckers their money.

Again, what about the people who liked the Blues show on WXXI? If WXXI insists on being a public broadcasting monopoly, why don't they try and serve everyone? If somebody started broadcasting unlicensed at 10 watts at 1700AM and were a true community station, WXXI would be on the phone with the FCC making sure they got closed down. Their "community," like that of WNED's, is their list of wealthy donors.

 

[Radknowski]

This has been a/an harsh, yet informative thread. I have to say that my eyes were opened reading the financial report linked herein. Still, for some reason, I wasn't shocked. Mildly piqued and surprised perhaps, but not shocked.

I like Public Radio in general and I'm glad Buffalo has not one but three Public Radio news stations, two of them offering extensive news programming. Like commercial radio, Public Radio is NOT perfect and it isn't really as "public" as the Washington PBS-NPR corporate types would have the average Joe, Mike, Jane and Marsha in the street believe it is.

What strikes me particularly hard is that some listeners and some "inside the NPR-PBS loop" higher-ups act and believe that NPR is perfect.

Few things, if any, in Public Radio or the Commercial sector are perfect. WBFO-FM and WNED-AM are very good radio stations, staffed by professionals in all departments. Yet between the two WNED-AM seems to me to be "the go-to news station" while WBFO-FM seems a better rounded "lifestyle" station offering news and jazz and blues. Conversely, WNED-AM has a problematic signal while WBFO-FM has a very good signal. And FM beats AM as far as awareness is concerned amoung those who don't even know this board exists (i.e., the general public.)

I've often wondered why these two fine stations don't combine staffs (please do not even THINK of the words consolidation or down-sizing) and with their combined manpower, offer the finest radio news department in the city, strong enough to rival and out-hustle commercial news radio WBEN. Surely, some of the wealth that's spread amoungst the upper echelon could be saved and distributed to the men and women who do the heavy lifting.

Compliments to "alw" for his brief but salient offering regarding the similarities and differences between Public Radio and Commercial radio as well as his attitude of dealing with those who can sometimes be strident in their criticism of NPR's upper echelon. Clearly, from his posts, he's not at that pay scale. Like Commercial Radio, the guys on the first floor have little in common (especially pay) with the guys in the corner offices on the third floor, or those in DC.

As to NPR's defense of it's real estate on the FM band, it's somewhat understandable if not disingenuous with regard to doctored third adjacency interference claims. Still, I can understand NPR's position of not wanting the Pray For Pay outfits to confiscate any more FM real estate than they already have, especially at the expense of what NPR Public Radio has staked out. There's already a plethora of Family Strife religious stations on the FM band, sucking up full-power channels and translator space. Enough is enough.

What we really should be lamenting is the fact to guys like cee and Voice Of Reason can't land a 100 Watt FM to serve their communities because stations owned by The Money Changers In The Temple have squatted on the frequencies, more than those Corporate Public Stations.

Maybe the system has been corrupted, but I wouldn't be so quick as to throw the Public Radio Baby out with the bath water.

It would be funny and informative to have some of these NPR big shots dogged by local guys in Michael Moore - Mike Wallace fashion and their responses, or lack thereof, posted on YouTube or independent websites.

OK, enough metaphors and analogies from me. It's just my buck tree eighty.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

The NPR station where I live also uses the BBC overnight service. I rarely find it interesting. A friend of mine in Buffalo loves it however. So go figure!

Seems like just another way to put radio stations on auto pilot. If no one is going to be at the station broadcasting I wish they would just turn them off.

Another opinion to add to the pile....

Mike

 

[Mark Giardina]

What about the people who liked the Blues show on WXXI? If WXXI insists on being a public broadcasting monopoly, why don't they try and serve everyone? If somebody started broadcasting unlicensed at 10 watts at 1700AM and were a true community station, WXXI would be on the phone with the FCC making sure they got closed down. Their "community," like that of WNED's, is their list of wealthy donors.

I had the opportunity to work with Jim McGrath and can tell you that Jim put his heart and soul into his blues program. Jim and his audio engineer Dave Sluberski spent a great deal of time going to local clubs and recording sets from artists across the nation for playback on Jim’s show, “The Blues Spectrum.”

Unfortunately Jim’s show, along with the jazz programming that aired afternoons on WXXI, were eliminated and replaced with news and talk. However in all fairness a number of other public stations, some in larger markets, have opted to dump music in favor of news/talk, which is quite ironic when you think of it because news/talk is one of the most expensive formats on radio. After all unless a station plans to run syndicated programs all day long, they need a staff of local reporters and anchors, which costs money. On the flip-side of the coin, some public stations have also jettisoned their news formats for the reasons I just mentioned regarding the expense.

As for the “Pass-the-Plate” group, let’s face it my friends, they have the money to gobble up those low-power FM stations. So unless Aunt Bertha left you a few million in her will, or you managed to pick the six winning numbers in the lottery, one has to live with the fact they are out there. What is annoying to me however is that from time-to-time one of my favorite stations in Canada is nearly impossible to hear because a low-power religious FM located near me keeps on bleeding into that signal from Canada.

 

[Philip_Airtime]

The NPR station where I live also uses the BBC overnight service. I rarely find it interesting. A friend of mine in Buffalo loves it however. So go figure!

Seems like just another way to put radio stations on auto pilot. If no one is going to be at the station broadcasting I wish they would just turn them off.

Another opinion to add to the pile....

Mike

I can't comment on commercial radio stations that automate, costing the jobs of live hosts in favor of the computer. They have their reasons, and I'll let others criticize them. But I will defend the use of automation at public radio stations. Is it a wise use of money to pay for an overnight board operator whose only job was to run a top of the hour break during the BBC broadcast? Or is it better to have that board operator, who has experience as a reporter, out on the street covering evening events for the next morning's newscasts? I think the answer is self-evident. Or is it wise to have a young, but inexperienced music host who was willing to accept poor pay for horrible hours running an overnight public radio music show for a few hundred listeners? Or is it better to put that money were the most listeners are, perhaps allowing the station to offer a slightly higher salary to a public reporter or daytime music host? Again, the answer is self-evident. You might argue that there is no place for that young and inexperienced announcer to learn. But in my my more than 25 year history in public radio, no overnight host I was associated with had the talent to move up. They all went into other careers. And now, with automation, the station has a consistent sound throughout the overnight hours that matches the daytime sound, while the money that we had to pay for overnight salaries is now being invested where it has the greatest impact. Perhaps that's not the way it is at all public stations. But it's how things are working locally. I understand your outrage against automation, Mike, given your recent experience described in another thread. I do, however, think it's unfair to suggest that the BBC be turned off, just because the station is on auto pilot. Its programming may not be for everyone. But there are enough listeners out there who do appreciate it.

 

[webcastboy]

The NPR station where I live also uses the BBC overnight service. I rarely find it interesting. A friend of mine in Buffalo loves it however. So go figure! Seems like just another way to put radio stations on auto pilot. If no one is going to be at the station broadcasting I wish they would just turn them off.

That's common, actually - BBC fans are often very passionate, everyone else just shrugs. But passionate listeners are often donating listeners so it works well in the public radio scheme.

Plus, don't forget that depending on daylight saving time, London is either 4 or 5 hours ahead of Rochester. So something on the BBC at 1am our time is also 5 or 6am their time. In other words, it's "morning drive" for them...right when newsmakers are just filing their reports or getting into the swing of things for the day. All the more so because often they're reporting on issues that're happening even "further ahead" (i.e. further east in "earlier" time zones) of London, like the Middle East and Asia.

 

[alw]

"I've often wondered why these two fine stations don't combine staffs (please do not even THINK of the words consolidation or down-sizing) and with their combined manpower, offer the finest radio news department in the city, strong enough to rival and out-hustle commercial news radio WBEN."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a notion that we, at the 2 pubstations here in Buffalo, have tossed around for a number of years. We’ve met and talked about it several times and have come to the conclusion that it would not work well.

Most of the foreseeable difficulties stemmed from the various bureaucracies (ie. who would work for whom, divergent editorial outlooks, vastly differing pay scales…etc.).

Both stations newsrooms have a great respect and regard for each other, and help each other out with regularity.

By the way, public opinion has it that WBEN-AM is out-hustling everyone else in town, but I don’t see them going to a vast number of press events and conferences that WNED & WBFO aren’t at too.

True, we didn’t send team coverage to Hurricane Katrina for on-the- spot reports from New Orleans, but NPR & AP did a pretty good job me thinks.

I think that ‘BEN just does it a whole lot louder. (Not our style)

Now y’all are invited to have at me for the above chutzpa.

 

[JustPastBuffalo]

WBFO and WNED-AM seem to have a niche and fill it well. I've spent more time listening to WNED-AM the last week or two because WBFO is on its aux transmitter while transitioning to a new tower.

One thing that intrigues me. The Buffalo News is putting more emphasis into and expanding its website content, offering streaming video and real time updates on stories. While the devil is in the details, wouldn't it be interesting if The News struck a deal with WNED-AM to create a synergy much like MicroSoft and NBC News?

 

[dustintv]

That's common, actually - BBC fans are often very passionate, everyone else just shrugs. But passionate listeners are often donating listeners so it works well in the public radio scheme.

Plus, don't forget that depending on daylight saving time, London is either 4 or 5 hours ahead of Rochester. So something on the BBC at 1am our time is also 5 or 6am their time. In other words, it's "morning drive" for them...right when newsmakers are just filing their reports or getting into the swing of things for the day. All the more so because often they're reporting on issues that're happening even "further ahead" (i.e. further east in "earlier" time zones) of London, like the Middle East and Asia.

Not to mention the BBC as a news service is ten times better than anything here in my opinion.