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Quality Rock Processing

G

grantchester

I want to like 93.3, I really do. I want to have a viable Adult Album Alternative station to listen to. I just can't enjoy this one. It's the processing. There's WAY too much compression. I can't detect much if any stereo separation. The equalization is bass-heavy (right at the frequency of flatulence). The audio quality actually makes JACK sound good by comparison. I assume they're playing audio files out of some computer; are they mp3's? Do they have a low sampling rate? What's wrong? More importantly, how could anyone in a position of authority let it sound so bad?
g
 
They could be "hard limiting" the audio before dumping it into the automation system carts.
 
More likely they are using 128K MP3's, sending the audio through a digital STL and squashing the crap out of the audio through all that heavier than hell multiband compression. From my experience, MP3's are not a viable audio source for broadcast. There's really no excuse to use MP3's, considering how inexpensive hard-drives are these days. What's the point in using botched MP3's through all that expensive audio processing? Garbage in, garbage out.
 
grantchester said:
There's WAY too much compression.
Click to expand...


I agree and have noticed it, too. After 20+ years in a production room, you tend to notice things like that.

The compression sounds its worse when they play an edgy rock song. For example, Know Your Enemy by Green Day. Lots of guitar, bass and drums and it all gets mashed together into crap.

Incidentally, calling 93.3 a AAA station is a bit of a stretch. A true-to-form AAA station will include indie rock, alternative rock, as well as alternative country, jazz, folk, world music and blues... not unlike what KERA has planned for 91.7 FM.

dr
 
Dr. o Fun said:
grantchester said:
There's WAY too much compression.
Click to expand...


I agree and have noticed it, too. After 20+ years in a production room, you tend to notice things like that.

The compression sounds its worse when they play an edgy rock song. For example, Know Your Enemy by Green Day. Lots of guitar, bass and drums and it all gets mashed together into crap.

Incidentally, calling 93.3 a AAA station is a bit of a stretch. A true-to-form AAA station will include indie rock, alternative rock, as well as alternative country, jazz, folk, world music and blues... not unlike what KERA has planned for 91.7 FM.

dr
Click to expand...

I like the format personally but it leans more Hot AC to me... They opened this morning with Crazy by Gnarls Barkley
 
jeffdfw said:
Dr. o Fun said:
grantchester said:
There's WAY too much compression.
Click to expand...


I agree and have noticed it, too. After 20+ years in a production room, you tend to notice things like that.

The compression sounds its worse when they play an edgy rock song. For example, Know Your Enemy by Green Day. Lots of guitar, bass and drums and it all gets mashed together into crap.

Incidentally, calling 93.3 a AAA station is a bit of a stretch. A true-to-form AAA station will include indie rock, alternative rock, as well as alternative country, jazz, folk, world music and blues... not unlike what KERA has planned for 91.7 FM.

dr
Click to expand...

I like the format personally but it leans more Hot AC to me... They opened this morning with Crazy by Gnarls Barkley
Click to expand...


+1. For every "REAL AAA" cut they play like Ray La Montagne or Lucinda Williams, we get 4 Counting Crows or Gnarls Barkley
 
grantchester said:
I want to like 93.3, I really do. I want to have a viable Adult Album Alternative station to listen to. I just can't enjoy this one. It's the processing. There's WAY too much compression. I can't detect much if any stereo separation. The equalization is bass-heavy (right at the frequency of flatulence). The audio quality actually makes JACK sound good by comparison. I assume they're playing audio files out of some computer; are they mp3's? Do they have a low sampling rate? What's wrong? More importantly, how could anyone in a position of authority let it sound so bad?
g
Click to expand...

You are correct the processing is set on full squash. It is set to heavy clipping and bass and highs are hevily emphasized. They are playing wav files out of "enco" the computer. I was told by the then cheif engineer that he was told to set the processing this way because some small market station re-set THEIR processing to full squash and THEIR ratings went up. Therefore all Cumulus stations will run full squash and all stations ratings will go up. I agree with you grant. It is an absolute assualt on the ears. You can't turn it up because it sounds like sh*t. Processing has been a real problem with this station for years.
 
TheRover said:
It's the same , old, old story . . .

"Can't find their a** with both hands . . . "

Bad marks on all accounts ..

Except for those like LibertyNT who think all is well......

But, alas, we all can't and won't and don't live in such a bliss . . . .
Click to expand...
Haha ;D
Ive always been pretty tolerant with audio.
 
LibertyNT said:
TheRover said:
It's the same , old, old story . . .

"Can't find their a** with both hands . . . "

Bad marks on all accounts ..

Except for those like LibertyNT who think all is well......

But, alas, we all can't and won't and don't live in such a bliss . . . .
Click to expand...
Haha ;D
Ive always been pretty tolerant with audio.
Click to expand...

You kinda have to be when you work on the AM side of the dial. ;)
 
Ive always been pretty tolerant with audio.

You kinda have to be when you work on the AM side of the dial.
Click to expand...

l-n-t; b-m... I disagree.
AM may have it's limits, but sound quality is still critical. Bad e-q is just annoying. Extreme compression hurts to listen to. Phone quality can be so bad a listener can't understand what's being said, especially if there is ambient noise in the listening environment (like in a car).
AM fidelity (in theory) could go as high as 15k, but is (in reality) limited to 10k. Still, there's no excuse for cutting off everything above 4500 cps/hz. And it drives me away when the bass is over-boosted.
For FM Stereo, there is no excuse for bad sound. With digital tuning and pre-sets, comparative loudness is not the factor it was in the old days. KZPS sounds pretty good. K-LUV used to sound better, but is still pretty good. Best I've ever heard is KMFA in Austin. 93.3 is just bad. Radio Disney is awful.
g
 
Glad I'm not the only one that has noticed their ridiculous mid-upper bass boost. I can't listen to it because of that. It was also noticable during the mid-day talk they had.
 
grantchester said:
Ive always been pretty tolerant with audio.

You kinda have to be when you work on the AM side of the dial.
Click to expand...

l-n-t; b-m... I disagree.
AM may have it's limits, but sound quality is still critical. Bad e-q is just annoying. Extreme compression hurts to listen to. Phone quality can be so bad a listener can't understand what's being said, especially if there is ambient noise in the listening environment (like in a car).
AM fidelity (in theory) could go as high as 15k, but is (in reality) limited to 10k. Still, there's no excuse for cutting off everything above 4500 cps/hz. And it drives me away when the bass is over-boosted.
For FM Stereo, there is no excuse for bad sound. With digital tuning and pre-sets, comparative loudness is not the factor it was in the old days. KZPS sounds pretty good. K-LUV used to sound better, but is still pretty good. Best I've ever heard is KMFA in Austin. 93.3 is just bad. Radio Disney is awful.
g
Click to expand...

You have valid points but that wasn't what I was gettin at. So many times have I heard great sounding audio IN the studio running through the console, but when the processors at the tower get a hold of it you gotta wonder what the he11. ::)
 
grantchester said:
I want to like 93.3, I really do. I want to have a viable Adult Album Alternative station to listen to. I just can't enjoy this one. It's the processing. There's WAY too much compression. I can't detect much if any stereo separation. The equalization is bass-heavy (right at the frequency of flatulence). The audio quality actually makes JACK sound good by comparison. I assume they're playing audio files out of some computer; are they mp3's? Do they have a low sampling rate? What's wrong? More importantly, how could anyone in a position of authority let it sound so bad?
g
Click to expand...

I'm a former OM for Cumulus and I can tell you this first hand. The corporate engineer out of Atlanta sets the processing for all stations. In some cases if the argument is valid he will listen to a pd or om and make adjustments.
 
Confirming what BossJock says. Gary Klein, corporate Director on Engineering for Cumulus personally set the damn thing to sound like it does! Then, well over a year later, hears his own horrible handiwork while passing through and has the BALLS to call up the local engineers and accuse them changing his settings. This is the same guy that suggested re-standing the three crumpled 1310 towers that came down in the wind storm last year. Stupid is as stupid does sir...or perhaps better said - small market think IS as small market thinking DOES! Maybe Gary and Forest Gump are related. Let's nominiate Gary for the Bonehead Engineer of the Year award! Is it any wonder the Dallas cluster lost 4 engineers, and the San Fran market 3 more when Susquehanna sold out?
 
FlyOnWall said:
Confirming what BossJock says. Gary Klein, corporate Director on Engineering for Cumulus personally set the damn thing to sound like it does! Then, well over a year later, hears his own horrible handiwork while passing through and has the BALLS to call up the local engineers and accuse them changing his settings. This is the same guy that suggested re-standing the three crumpled 1310 towers that came down in the wind storm last year. Stupid is as stupid does sir...or perhaps better said - small market think IS as small market thinking DOES! Maybe Gary and Forest Gump are related. Let's nominiate Gary for the Bonehead Engineer of the Year award! Is it any wonder the Dallas cluster lost 4 engineers, and the San Fran market 3 more when Susquehanna sold out?
Click to expand...

If such ego wasn't the problem and engineers admitted they do not or cannot understand digital processing adjustments then for god sakes put it on a frikkin preset!!!! Bob Orban, Greg and the gang at Orban created the damn thing. USE THEIR PRESETS! Same with Omnia.
 
I long for the days of "gentle" audio processing. Then again, st least we're dealing with audio files as opposed to carts. All that wow and flutter and phase shifts is just as bad as over compressed audio. Guess we can't have our cake and eat it too. Oh well, another reason why terra is dying.
 
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