Question about advertising

[Corth]

I apologize in advance if this post is off topic. I work with a small law firm that is considering a radio advertising campaign for a niche area in the Long Island area. We are looking, initially, at a budget of about $1,500 per week. We spoke with a couple of local radio stations and were given proposals. These included arbitron statistics that we are having a difficult time making heads or tails out of. My specific question is whether it makes sense for a small potential advertiser, such as my firm, to handle this ourselves, or whether we should be looking for some sort of outside assistance such as an advertising agency. Our level of experience in radio advertising is nil - and this is a very big step for our firm so we want to make sure that we are going about this the right way.

Thank you for all of your input.

 

[davideduardo]

I apologize in advance if this post is off topic. I work with a small law firm that is considering a radio advertising campaign for a niche area in the Long Island area. We are looking, initially, at a budget of about $1,500 per week. We spoke with a couple of local radio stations and were given proposals. These included arbitron statistics that we are having a difficult time making heads or tails out of. My specific question is whether it makes sense for a small potential advertiser, such as my firm, to handle this ourselves, or whether we should be looking for some sort of outside assistance such as an advertising agency. Our level of experience in radio advertising is nil - and this is a very big step for our firm so we want to make sure that we are going about this the right way

An ad agency is not likely to take on an account that has billings of less than $100 k a year, although there may be some ad consultants who, for a fee, might advise you. I'd go strictly based on recommendations from real users of such services, though.

Here are a few questions I'd ask:

Do you know the kind of people you are targeting? What things do they have in common, such as income, education level, etc? Radio stations can, if prodded, give you specifics about their delivery of specifics like that. Most would rather say, "I have more listeners than the other station does." You don't want "more listeners." You want the right kind of listener.

Will your spots run at the times you think listeners will be most receptive to your message? Remember that you know more about your business than the station does. If the station does not ask you questions about your objectives, expectations and the message you want to deliver, they are not going to do a good job once they have a contract, either.

Are you going to run spots day in and day out? Or could you run for a month or two non-stop, and then run a few weeks and rest a few weeks... called flights. Do you think that disruptive weeks that have holidays or long weekends in them might be less desirable and should be skipped?

Does the day of the week you advertise matter? Stations tend to have loads of retail business on Wednesdays through Fridays. Could your message just run on Monday and Tuesday, with a "make this the week you deal with your legal problem" type of message... because you can deal on the rate if you use time that has less demand... the seats that take off empty.

And radio is negotiable, but don't sacrifice running in the right times of the day. Stations will offer better rates if you run spots that run in the Best Time Available... which is sometimes like buying an airline seat at a deep discount... you get seated next to the lavatory door or in the middle seat between two thinness-impaired people.

What kind of services will you get to create your ad? Will there be opportunities to revise and change the spot as often as you might need.

These are just starters and kind of off the cuff remarks... you may get some further input here.

 

[Gregg]

In addition to what David says above, here are a few other considerations...

First, the mistake new advertisers often make in composing their first commercial is filling it with too much unneeded information. If they were McDonald's they'd want the spot to include that they sell soda in small, medium and large sizes. Obviously McDonald's never advertises specific information. No McDonald's ad says they're open from 6am to Midnight Sunday through Thursday but till 2am on Friday and Saturday.

McDonald's knows it's in a crowded advertising environment and stresses only one point per commercial. Maybe they'll stress how good a Big Mac is. Maybe it's simply that it's fun to go to McDonald's. Everything in those thirty seconds stresses the one point.

What's the one point that you want to stress? Maybe you're the law firm that helps people with DWI and other traffic offenses keep their licenses? Maybe you're the law firm that helps well-off clients protect their money for their decendants after they die. Obviously you wouldn't want both messages in the same ad. And the radio stations used would be totally different.

If you don't have an easy to remember phone number and website, consider doing that before you go on the air. One law firm tells us their number is 1-800-LAWYERS seven or eight times in the ad. I'm sure many a listener to their ads knows if they're ever pulled over on a DWI sting, that's the number they'd call, even if they've never called it before. I doubt they'd remember 845-272-4400.

And sorry to remport you just missed the bargain basement time of the year for non-retail advertisers. In the months just after Christmas, you can probably buy two spots on a given radio station for the price of one other times of the year. The station won't TELL you that. But if you give them an offer for a flight of commercials in January and February, you can nearly dictate your own rate.


Gregg
[email protected]

 

[Corth]

I apologize in advance if this post is off topic. I work with a small law firm that is considering a radio advertising campaign for a niche area in the Long Island area. We are looking, initially, at a budget of about $1,500 per week. We spoke with a couple of local radio stations and were given proposals. These included arbitron statistics that we are having a difficult time making heads or tails out of. My specific question is whether it makes sense for a small potential advertiser, such as my firm, to handle this ourselves, or whether we should be looking for some sort of outside assistance such as an advertising agency. Our level of experience in radio advertising is nil - and this is a very big step for our firm so we want to make sure that we are going about this the right way

An ad agency is not likely to take on an account that has billings of less than $100 k a year, although there may be some ad consultants who, for a fee, might advise you. I'd go strictly based on recommendations from real users of such services, though.

Here are a few questions I'd ask:

Do you know the kind of people you are targeting? What things do they have in common, such as income, education level, etc? Radio stations can, if prodded, give you specifics about their delivery of specifics like that. Most would rather say, "I have more listeners than the other station does." You don't want "more listeners." You want the right kind of listener.

Will your spots run at the times you think listeners will be most receptive to your message? Remember that you know more about your business than the station does. If the station does not ask you questions about your objectives, expectations and the message you want to deliver, they are not going to do a good job once they have a contract, either.

Are you going to run spots day in and day out? Or could you run for a month or two non-stop, and then run a few weeks and rest a few weeks... called flights. Do you think that disruptive weeks that have holidays or long weekends in them might be less desirable and should be skipped?

Does the day of the week you advertise matter? Stations tend to have loads of retail business on Wednesdays through Fridays. Could your message just run on Monday and Tuesday, with a "make this the week you deal with your legal problem" type of message... because you can deal on the rate if you use time that has less demand... the seats that take off empty.

And radio is negotiable, but don't sacrifice running in the right times of the day. Stations will offer better rates if you run spots that run in the Best Time Available... which is sometimes like buying an airline seat at a deep discount... you get seated next to the lavatory door or in the middle seat between two thinness-impaired people.

What kind of services will you get to create your ad? Will there be opportunities to revise and change the spot as often as you might need.

These are just starters and kind of off the cuff remarks... you may get some further input here.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Our firm handles new car Lemon Law cases. Our target market are people that drive vehicles that are under the original manufacturer's warranty. Basically, newer vehicles. Thus, from a demographic perspective we are probably looking for people between the ages of 25 and 55 with slightly higher than average income. Until recently we have relied upon internet advertising - which works great when someone knows they have a problem and are looking specifically for assistance. The problem, though, is that there is a large pool of people who have no clue they could benefit from our services. Those are the people we are trying to reach.

My initial thought is that morning and afternoon 'drive time' would be particularly appropriate. Most radio listening seems to be done in cars during those hours. However, people listening during the day, for instance while working, are likely also to be drivers. So perhaps an argument could be made that it isn't necessary to pay a premium for those sought after spots. One problem that I have is that I don't really know how to evaluate how many sets of receptive ears I will reach at any given time so that I can determine what type of placement makes the most economic sense.

I'm not really sure about the question pertaining to whether we would run day in and day out, or alternatively, on again off again. I guess we could do it either way. I'm not really sure what the pros and cons are of either approach, but would certainly be interested in your input. Perhaps since I have better explained exactly what I'm marketing you might be able to point me in the right direction.

I don't think the days of the week matter very much. The weekends I guess would not make sense because we are closed. I'd like to have someone manning the phones when our advertisements run. If retail is bidding up the spots late in the week then I think it probably makes more sense for us to advertise early in the week.

We have spoken with a couple of radio stations and have one proposal so far. One thing I noticed is that the proposal has a very broad time frame when the advertisement might be run. For instance: Monday through Tuesday, 6AM to 7PM. As far as I can tell, there is no real way of quantifying exactly what I am getting given such a broad time frame. If I am getting morning and afternoon drive time then it certainly beats a bunch of spots in the middle of the day - but there isn't really a good way of knowing when they are run given such a broad schedule.

Both radio stations indicated that they would produce an advertisement. They didn't indicate whether there would be an opportunity over time to make new advertisements or revise the existing ones. I will have to ask about that.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate your input.

 

[Corth]

Gregg,

Thank you for your points about ad copy. I have been doing a lot of research on that subject. I just read a book called "The Wizard of Ads: Turning Words into Magic and Dreamers into Millionaires" by Roy Williams which was really helpful in that regard.

Actually this leads me to one question I had for the forum. The radio stations seem to want to push 1 minute advertisements. I think that if I stay on point, as I intend to, I could certainly get my message across in a 30 second spot. One of the guys we spoke to said the conventional wisdom is that 30 second spots cost about 65% of what a 1 minute spot would cost. I'm wondering about what you and others think about this. Since ad repetition seems to be key, it would seem to me that the 30 second ads make more sense. But then again, you get a better deal on the 1 minute ads with respect to cost per time on the air.

FYI - we have a very memorable vanity toll free phone number and web site URL.

 

[davideduardo]

Actually this leads me to one question I had for the forum. The radio stations seem to want to push 1 minute advertisements. I think that if I stay on point, as I intend to, I could certainly get my message across in a 30 second spot. One of the guys we spoke to said the conventional wisdom is that 30 second spots cost about 65% of what a 1 minute spot would cost. I'm wondering about what you and others think about this.

In much of the world, the 30 or less is the standard. A friend, who is a brilliant copywriter and lover of words said to me that a 90" spot writes itself from the salesperson's notes. A 60 takes some rewriting, while a 30" spot takes skill and creativity.

If your message is simple, as Gregg illustrated with his examples, then go for repetition. Not everyone needs an attorney right now, but when they need one, an often repeated message will jump ahead of others.

 

[MattParker]

I am not at all sure that radio is best for your situation. What they say about lawyers who represent themselves also applies to people who do their own advertising. I really recommend you get some professional advice.

Radio is most effective at imbedding your name (your brand) and your niche (your position) in people's minds so that when they have the kind of legal problem you deal with they immediately think of you. Or at least, as David suggests, your name "jumps out" as somebody they know when they look at the lawyers' ads in the Yellow Pages (or online). That takes lots of repetition. There's some research that suggests people have to hear an ad at least five times before the message sinks in and then they have to keep hearing it. So, you can't really just run an ad a few times, or for a brief period, and expect it to work for you.

Maybe your interest in radio has been prompted by the lawyers' ads on 1010 WINS (and other stations) which target people with specific programs. You recognize them because you've heard them repeatedly and you keep hearing them; that takes money.

The other thing to consider is you are in a suburban market. Many - perhaps most - of your potential clients are not listening to suburban radio. They are listening to New York stations (if they are listening to terrestrial radio at all). It's interesting that you posted your question on the New York board, rather than the Nassau-Suffolk board. It sort of shows on Long Island radio is under the mental radar for a lot of people. New York radio stations do run ads clearly aimed at Long Island but that takes big bucks.

I'd recommend finding a consultant who has experience creating economical and cost-effective solutions for small businesses. Yes, they may want an agreed-on fee, but that may be cheaper in the long-run. Stations and ad agencies (who get a percentage) may give free advice but they have an interest in having you spend more.

 

[Corth]

I am not at all sure that radio is best for your situation. What they say about lawyers who represent themselves also applies to people who do their own advertising. I really recommend you get some professional advice.

Radio is most effective at imbedding your name (your brand) and your niche (your position) in people's minds so that when they have the kind of legal problem you deal with they immediately think of you. Or at least, as David suggests, your name "jumps out" as somebody they know when they look at the lawyers' ads in the Yellow Pages (or online). That takes lots of repetition. There's some research that suggests people have to hear an ad at least five times before the message sinks in and then they have to keep hearing it. So, you can't really just run an ad a few times, or for a brief period, and expect it to work for you.

Maybe your interest in radio has been prompted by the lawyers' ads on 1010 WINS (and other stations) which target people with specific programs. You recognize them because you've heard them repeatedly and you keep hearing them; that takes money.

The other thing to consider is you are in a suburban market. Many - perhaps most - of your potential clients are not listening to suburban radio. They are listening to New York stations (if they are listening to terrestrial radio at all). It's interesting that you posted your question on the New York board, rather than the Nassau-Suffolk board. It sort of shows on Long Island radio is under the mental radar for a lot of people. New York radio stations do run ads clearly aimed at Long Island but that takes big bucks.

I'd recommend finding a consultant who has experience creating economical and cost-effective solutions for small businesses. Yes, they may want an agreed-on fee, but that may be cheaper in the long-run. Stations and ad agencies (who get a percentage) may give free advice but they have an interest in having you spend more.

Matt,

Thanks for your advice. Actually, I wasn't aware that there was a Nassau/Suffolk forum or I would have posted there instead. I'm new to this board, and there were a LOT of forums.

The reason we are concentrating on Long Island is that is where the drivers are. If we run spots on a station that runs in NYC then we are paying to get our message across to a lot of people who take the subway or bus. Granted there is public transportation on LI, but it's certainly a lot less prominent.

Point taken about the old maxim concerning lawyers representing themselves also applying to lawyers who do their own advertising. The best that I can hope for given my time frame is a better than average amateur understanding of the industry. That was actually the primary reason I came here - to figure out whether I should have someone do it for me, or do it myself. All the other issues concerning ad copy, amount of repetition, evaluating proposals, etc., assumes that I am going to do it myself. But before I get there I need to figure out if that first question makes sense. I am curious about how others feel on this issue. Is the cost of a consultant justified given my specific circumstances? Also, if I were to decide to hire a consultant I am wondering if people have any specific advise for how I would go about finding candidates and evaluating them.

I think it is worth noting that I am not trying to reinvent the wheel. There is some healthy competition in a nearby market, Philadelphia, between two firms that practice in my area. They run radio and tv spots regularly. I was on the Jersey shore once and I saw a plane fly by with a banner advertising one of those firms. I have to imagine that this level of advertising generates enough business to pay the bills.

 

[nd2023]

You'd want to advertise on the AC stations like KJoy and WALK. And get an easy to remember phone number and website, like 516-LEMONLAW or www.imdrivingalemon.com

 

[Corth]

Yes - we have a pretty good phone number and web site url.

I think I'm more concerned with the following questions:

1. Whether I should hire a consultant to handle this for me given the limited budget, and if so, how I should go about locating one and evaluating him/her.

2. Assuming I do this on my own, how should I go about evaluating competing proposals from different radio stations.

I think I'm less concerned with the content of the advertisement - I'm comfortable handling that. I'm pretty good at getting into the mind of a generic customer and avoiding the "McDonalds" problem that Gregg brought up. Or at least I think I am.

 

[MattParker]

I think it is worth noting that I am not trying to reinvent the wheel. There is some healthy competition in a nearby market, Philadelphia, between two firms that practice in my area. They run radio and tv spots regularly. I was on the Jersey shore once and I saw a plane fly by with a banner advertising one of those firms. I have to imagine that this level of advertising generates enough business to pay the bills.

That sounds like a good place to start. It might be worthwhile to get in touch with the managing partner at either or both of these firms, offer to buy him dinner and pick his brain about what they do and what they've learned. He might put you in touch with their consultant or agency, too. I'd also see if there are firms with the same kind of practice in other embedded markets (i.e., Middlesex-Somerset-Union, San Jose, Monmouth-Ocean, Wilmington ...) you can talk to.

 

[Gregg]

Matt has a good idea. Since you're not competing with the Philadelphia law firm who does the same work you do, maybe you can just copy that firm's ads.

I'd say definately you only need a :30 second ad because most people would instantly know what legal service you're talking about. You only need to stress your success and your phone number/website. As others have stated above, you probably would do best going on WBAB (Cox Radio) for men 25-54 years old, WALK (Clear Channel) and WKJY K-Joy (Barnstable) for women 25-54 years old. WALK is stronger on the Suffolk side of the border, WKJY on the Nassau side. WBAB in Babylon straddles the border between the two counties but if you're closer to Queens, maybe you'd skip them and just go with WKJY.

Barnstable, the company that owns WKJY also owns Oldies WBZO. It's a good station but has almost no coverage in Nassau and the listeners are a bit older. Cox, the company that owns WBAB also owns Top 40 WBLI but WBLI may be too young for you and they have very few Nassau County listeners. So don't go with a station that only covers Suffolk if you want customers in both counties.

One other station you might consider is Standards 1100 WHLI, if some of your clients are above 60. They may be retired empty-nesters and don't drive as much. But maybe an older car buyer who gets stuck with a lemon will have more time for a legal fight than a busy working person with kids. WHLI (Barnstable) covers Nassau and part of Suffolk well. Other stations on Long Island may not have the ratings, coverage or audience profile you want for a legal firm representing people who've bought a defective car, espeically if you do business in both Nassau and Suffolk County.


Gregg
[email protected]