Question about digital signals in RI

[Kenny Atkinson]

Do the Providence TV stations run thier digital TV signals at a reduced power?
Here is why I am asking.I just reinstalled my directv and can not get the local channels because I have tree in the way for sat 99 and 119 which carry the local stations.All other channels are on the 101.
So I said to my self why not buy a pair of HDTV rabbit ears with an amplifier in it.I do a digital channel search and all I get is WLNE and WJAR's channel 1 and 2.That is with the antenna practicly hanging from the ceiling.
Yes I am in a ground level apartment but not a basement.
Can anyone help with any suggestions?

 

[tripinva]

Rabbit ears aren't really great for UHF digitals, though I'm surprised you're not seeing WPRI-DT 13...

You might want to look into a UHF antenna like the Silver Sensor instead.

Before you do that, try playing with the location of the antenna. It turns out that not only will the direction affect the signal, but the actual location. Try physically relocating the antenna to other places and see if it helps.

As for power levels...

WLNE-DT 49 350 kW (Full power)
WJAR-DT 51 900 kW (Almost full power, holds a permit to go to 1000 kW)
WPRI-DT 13 18 kW (Full power)
WLWC-DT 22 350 kW (Full power)
WSBE-DT 21 50 kW (Full power)
WNAC-DT 54 1000 kW (Full power)

- Trip

 

[fybush]

You don't say where in the market you are...but in general, amplified antennas are bad news for digital TV, especially in circumstances where they're subject to signal overload. If you're anywhere close to Rehoboth or to Johnston (where WSBE's analog signal still is for now), you could be getting overloaded.

My favorite indoor antenna for UHF DTV is the unamplified Silver Sensor, widely available for $25 or so. It doesn't do VHF very well, though, so it may not be as effective for WPRI (DT13) or WNAC (DT12) after the transition next spring, unless you're fairly close to Rehoboth.

 

[Walter Graff]

Here's the good news. Digital signals are crisp. Here's the bad news, they can be nearly impossible to get. First off, digital transmitters are usually not found where the analog transmitter was, as in the new tower is in a completely different spot. Sometimes ten miles in a different direction from the original transmission point. This is because digital signals and terrain create completely different umbrellas of signal so when they test areas to find out how digital penetrates, they sometimes find out they have to put the transmitter in a completely different spot. Second, digital signals are either on or off in terms of receiving. That means that there is no snow with a bad signal, rather you either get the signal or you don't. Third problem, since the first digital transmitter was set up, engineers have been having trouble getting good coverage with a digital signal regardless of how powerful it is or where they place it. And the thing about TV digital signals is that your antenna placement can be key. You could move an antenna one foot and suddenly loose everything. Also most everything in your neighborhood from your house to the trees and traffic on the street affect how well you get a signal. Living in a basement is a tough place to get a signal even if you are a mile from the transmitter. I've been involved with tests where we could see the antenna but could not get a digital signal. While the push to digital's underlying factor was to sell more TV sets, they forgot that digital can be a problem in most of the markets in the US do to terrain, buildings,. etc. Now many markets are seeing this problem. We've actually given up a bit as a result. Nothing beats a well received digital signal, but trying to get one, as has been a serious issue in every market transmitting digtial to this day is a serious issue. It's almost as if the cable companies have created some sort of way of stopping you from getting the signal (joke). What many have found is that rabbit ears are often useless for digital signals, regardless of the price you pay, or the placement. Also note the signal level on your TV when looking ofr a signal. Usually any level below 30-40% means you will loose the signal. So not only is digital an on/off scenario where if you get a signal you get a picture, or no signal no picture and nothing in between, but you also need a threshold of a signal to keep it. I always say that for every step forward in technology, we take a step back. Digital over the air television signals have plagued people trying to receive them from day one.

 

[KML0224]

Can somebody explain to me why the analog and digital signals for WPXQ-TV/DT (ION) transmit from Exeter, RI and not in or near Rehoboth, MA? Did it have to do with their city of license? I've picked both signals up here in New Britain, CT a few times. Usually, if I move my indoor antenna to get WHPX-DT (ION) digital channel 34 of New London, CT, they'll come in as well. Montville, CT (WHPX-DT site) and Exeter, RI (WPXQ-DT site) can't be too far apart, can they?

 

[necrat123]

WPRI & WNAC DT are both at full power, I can confirm this.

All Providence digital signals (except for WPXQ & WLWC) are from the same area within a 1.5 mile radius.

WJAR & WLNE digital currently share an antenna. WJAR will go to a top mount antenna. WLNE will remain on their current antenna.
WSBE digital is side mounted further down on the WJAR tower. The three signals are directional towards Providence. (WSBE's protects WLWC's). WNAC is the only station in Providence using an "interim" digital channel (54) and it is facing away from Rhode Island (thanks FCC), to protect WEDN in Norwich. WNAC will be going to VHF 12 eventually. This market will be somewhat unique in the fact that there will be two VHF digital stations (WPRI Digital 13, WNAC digital 12). Ken, it would help to know where you are located to help further the situation. It was suggested that you might want to get a UHF antenna. This is NOT a good idea, as two local stations and at least one Boston channel will be VHF. Try to get a VHF/UHF. Also stay away from amplifiers. If you live anywhere within 10-15 miles of Providence, you should be able to receive everything except WNAC depending on location. With an amplified antenna you also amplify noise, and this is a killer for VHF. And in the heavily RF noisy areas around Providence it's especially a bad idea.

 

[alg2468]

The reply above by Walter Graff is excellent and precisely why digital TV is great for some, but for most people it's frustrating receiving TV stations from even short distances. Hopefully by the time of the analog shutoff it will be a better situation with the elimination of analog, increased power from TV stations, less interference, and higher antennas. It's amazing that while Providence's TV stations can be received in most of the greater Boston area ( know, I lived in both areas) with analog, much of the Boston area cannot get these same stations in digital (even with new outdoor antennas), even though most of the stations transmit from Rehoboth, only about 35 miles air miles in Rehoboth. If this situation is not improved by next year, you'll see protests in the streets and Washington over this government ordered fiasco.

 

[Kenny Atkinson]

WPRI & WNAC DT are both at full power, I can confirm this.

All Providence digital signals (except for WPXQ & WLWC) are from the same area within a 1.5 mile radius.

WJAR & WLNE digital currently share an antenna. WJAR will go to a top mount antenna. WLNE will remain on their current antenna.
WSBE digital is side mounted further down on the WJAR tower. The three signals are directional towards Providence. (WSBE's protects WLWC's). WNAC is the only station in Providence using an "interim" digital channel (54) and it is facing away from Rhode Island (thanks FCC), to protect WEDN in Norwich. WNAC will be going to VHF 12 eventually. This market will be somewhat unique in the fact that there will be two VHF digital stations (WPRI Digital 13, WNAC digital 12). Ken, it would help to know where you are located to help further the situation. It was suggested that you might want to get a UHF antenna. This is NOT a good idea, as two local stations and at least one Boston channel will be VHF. Try to get a VHF/UHF. Also stay away from amplifiers. If you live anywhere within 10-15 miles of Providence, you should be able to receive everything except WNAC depending on location. With an amplified antenna you also amplify noise, and this is a killer for VHF. And in the heavily RF noisy areas around Providence it's especially a bad idea.

Sorry,

I forgot to say where I live. I live in North Providence off Woonasquatucket Ave right outside of Centredale.I live in a ground level apartment.Not a basement but almost below street level. I had a 9 dollar pair of HDTV unamplified rabbit ears.I recieved 10 and 6 if I really screwed with it.I returned those to get a 20 pair with an amplifier.I really have to struggle to get 10 or 6.The search on my TV picks up 64-1 but shows no picture. I can get WWDP-HD-1 wherever the the hell that comes from with Hoime shopping but that is it.

 

[pqgeorge]

Can somebody explain to me why the analog and digital signals for WPXQ-TV/DT (ION) transmit from Exeter, RI and not in or near Rehoboth, MA? Did it have to do with their city of license? I've picked both signals up here in New Britain, CT a few times. Usually, if I move my indoor antenna to get WHPX-DT (ION) digital channel 34 of New London, CT, they'll come in as well. Montville, CT (WHPX-DT site) and Exeter, RI (WPXQ-DT site) can't be too far apart, can they?

WPXQ-TV 69/DT 17 are licensed to Block Island, RI. As a result, they must put a City Grade over the City of License. To do that from Rehoboth is nearly impossible, especially with digital. So, they had to go to the next best thing. They moved it as close to Providence as humanly possible while still retaining a City Grade signal to Block Island. I believe it is highly directional toward the north from Exeter. It's pretty much the same idea with WEEI-FM (103.7). While 'EEI-FM is licensed to Westerly, they moved the transmitter as close as they could towards Providence. They still maintain a City Grade to Westerly (albeit barely).

 

[necrat123]

There is a second reason also prohibiting WPXQ-DT from being in Rehoboth.

WPXQ-DT is assigned UHF 17. In Boston LMRS (Land Mobile Radio Service) uses channels 14 and 16.
(Basically the frequencies used within these channel spaces (470-476 {14} and 482-488{16}) are assigned to public safety and buisness. WPXQ's assignment 17 prevents them from being closer to the geographic coordinates of LMRS 16.
As it is they had to get a waiver of 73.623(e) which require a minimum seperation of 176km. to locate on the Industrial tower in Hopkington where they are now. WPXQ's pattern is pretty broad and covers all of Rhode Island fairly nicely (including the intended COL, Block Island).

As far as WEEI-FM is concerned, they are non-directional from the American Tower in Exeter. (Using a 5 bay Shively 3/4 wave ND spaced antenna) The last time I was in Westerly their signal was well beyond city grade. The American Tower site gives WEEI city grade almost into New London now. (As well as blanketing Providence nicely). I am unsure how their first site up in Exeter handled the signal (the old one near the fire tower) but I can imagine it wasn't even half as good as it is now a days. 99.7 (WEAN?) which is on the tower, IS directional, protecting WQRC, but still putting a pretty solid signal over Providence.

 

[pqgeorge]

There is a second reason also prohibiting WPXQ-DT from being in Rehoboth.

WPXQ-DT is assigned UHF 17. In Boston LMRS (Land Mobile Radio Service) uses channels 14 and 16.
(Basically the frequencies used within these channel spaces (470-476 {14} and 482-488{16}) are assigned to public safety and buisness. WPXQ's assignment 17 prevents them from being closer to the geographic coordinates of LMRS 16.
As it is they had to get a waiver of 73.623(e) which require a minimum seperation of 176km. to locate on the Industrial tower in Hopkington where they are now. WPXQ's pattern is pretty broad and covers all of Rhode Island fairly nicely (including the intended COL, Block Island).

As far as WEEI-FM is concerned, they are non-directional from the American Tower in Exeter. (Using a 5 bay Shively 3/4 wave ND spaced antenna) The last time I was in Westerly their signal was well beyond city grade. The American Tower site gives WEEI city grade almost into New London now. (As well as blanketing Providence nicely). I am unsure how their first site up in Exeter handled the signal (the old one near the fire tower) but I can imagine it wasn't even half as good as it is now a days. 99.7 (WEAN?) which is on the tower, IS directional, protecting WQRC, but still putting a pretty solid signal over Providence.

I must be thinking about the original upgraded WERI-FM (now WEEI-FM) site, which I believe was right off 95 in Exeter (in a trailer). WEEI-FM does possess one killer signal! You'd never think that this was original WERI-FM with a signal that barely made it outside of their own backyard with 16,000 watts, mono, horizontal only.. I have noticed, however, as of late that 'EEI-FM's audio is really down in the mud, in terms of volume. Compared to the other stations in town, 'EEI-FM really does not pack the punch that it should have. Either the Optimod is cranky or the STL link from Boston needs to be adjusted. Check it out and see if you agree! 73, Pete.