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Question about FM translators

But, the LCRA does not mention translators for AM stations. This was done within the FCC and without Congress. So, I suspect the FCC does have the authority to change the rules in this matter to allow a longer a silent period for the AM's.

Petition the FCC to change the rules to allow these translators to stay on the air as long as there is a valid AM license.

It's easier to change FCC rules versus changing laws in Congress.
 
But, the LCRA does not mention translators for AM stations.
A translator is a translator. The same law that applies to translators used for FM stations also applies to translators used for AM stations. "FM Translator" is the name of the service that encompasses all translators. There is no separate "AM Translator" or "FM Translator for AM Station" service. See 47 CFR 74 Subpart L.
 
But, the LCRA does not mention translators for AM stations. This was done within the FCC and without Congress. So, I suspect the FCC does have the authority to change the rules in this matter to allow a longer a silent period for the AM's.

Petition the FCC to change the rules to allow these translators to stay on the air as long as there is a valid AM license.

It's easier to change FCC rules versus changing laws in Congress.
Directly from the FCC website: "Stations may remain silent for no more than one year. The licenses of stations remaining silent for more than one year are considered by the Commission to have automatically expired as a matter of law pursuant to Section 312(g) of the Communications Act." The only wiggle room I see is that the Commission "considers" the station silent for longer than one year to be expired as a matter of law. Could they change this "consideration" for AM stations that have FM translators?
 
AM translators function as commercial LPFM's. But, you must also broadcast on AM to do it. You can be off the air no more than 24 hours on AM to keep the FM translator on the air. Unlike translators for commercial FM, the FM translators for these AM's are fed by STL's, the internet, or the station's audio chain. The rules aren't the same for these AM 's translators.

So, these FM translators can originate programming with the AM off the air. But only for a day. Give them more time to make repairs. How can they make any money to do this if they are forced out of the business of broadcasting.
 
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Japan's conversion to WIDE-FM was a success because:
  1. Broadcast franchise areas span the entire prefecture (which there is only 47) and in smaller prefectures, the franchise areas are multiple prefectures, there are far fewer stations.
  2. Retail stores actually sold radios and was very supportive of the change.
  3. Japan's equivalent of the NAB (JBA) was very aggressive in their marketing and promotion of WIDE-FM.
  4. Because there was fewer television broadcast licensees, Japan, like most of the world except the US, Canada and Mexico completely ditched VHF for digital television thus freeing up a ton of spectrum.
  5. Radio in Japan still a higher ratio of local originated speech to music. Because there are fewer stations, they are more well rounded and not narrowcasted into "formats" and on-air personalities (both local and national) still exist.
  6. Radio is more live and local and less automated and is in touch with the local community.
  7. Radio stations in Japan still promote music and the labels.
  8. Spotify has a 24.1% market share in Japan where in the US, it is 30.5%. Still pretty high, but radio remains relevant there.

Thank you, Michi, for the addition of those qualifying details. It brings additional context but also (unfortunately) serves as validation of my -- and others' -- statement that the success cannot be replicated here. As you, yourself say:

Yes, the WIDE-FM ship has sailed in the USA, but you can blame decades of regulations, strange interpretations of statutes, media consolidation, an unsupportive NAB because of conflicts of interest (radio and TV) and network O&Os with RJ Fletcher Syndrome.

A lot of that can be attributed to the relative difference between the two countries, not only in size but in the effects of being so much larger. More bureaucracy, too many bad decisions which seemed right at the time (even when people tried to point out the potential pitfalls ... the majority of which came to pass), too much capitalism driving the legislative and regulatory processes.

Without the acceptance of new hardware for radio by the American consumer, whether it is WIDE-FM or HD Radio, the outlook does not look good for AM. The AM for All Vehicles Act will do nothing to help save AM as long as the "HD loophole" remains in the legislation (automakers can satisfy the law by installing AM radios that only pick up HD broadcasts while still excluding analog stations).

So ... X-band was not the savior hoped for, largely due to consumers not inclined to buy new radios to make it work (as I said, if we learn from that mistake, repurposing channels 5 and 6 from TV to FM will be nothing more than a new version of the X-Band debacle). Other "ideas" which sound good but are not feasible, such as blanket power increases for all AMs, are -- I hope and pray -- never going to get any serious consideration.

I agree that the outlook for AM's continued existence is doomed. There will still be a lot of high-powered stations that survive, similar but not identical to the handful of SW stations that still exist, and there are likely to be rural areas where the coverage area of a translator is insufficient to reach everyone in an emergency or public safety situation, but otherwise the translators are keeping stations that would have likely gone silent by now if forced to transmit only on AM viable in their local communities.

There is no good reason to force AMs that now only exist to feed translators (i.e., the AM audience is negligible) to remain on the air just for that purpose. And the only way to allow them to go silent without also taking the low-wattage FM off the air, as now legally required, is to change the rules and regulations and create a lower FM class which is essentially the current translator technical limits and provide some degree of contour protection (certainly not as much as even a full-power Class A) so that those can operate without fear of being forced off the air by a larger broadcaster.

As I see it, this is the only way to preserve service to the community. The only reason to oppose it is wanting to make the bigger stations even bigger and I'm not willing to agree to that, because the smaller owners who would be able to use this change in status to stay on the air need to be able to take their AMs silent without fear that their FM will be steamrolled out of the way by a bigger station widening their own road.

I simply do not see any other viable solutions other than letting stations fail with no recourse to their owners or the communities they serve.
 
The only X-band success story I can think of is KCJJ, which is the exception that proves the rule.

Other than the aforementioned ethnic broadcasters, this would appear to be the rare example of a mainstream X-band station surviving; I wonder, given their 1630kHz frequency, if there aren't a lot of radios that aren't designed to tune above 1600 but still are able to that helps make KCJJ listenable. I suspect that to be the case since they surrendered their original 1560 license so readily when the time came to do so.

Of course, it must be noted that the owner (and morning personality) Steve Bridges has made a commitment to being live in the daytime and on weekends, including local news coverage and local sports broadcasts. This is exactly the kind of station owner we need to protect with whatever future decisions are made about AM's future.

Although I disagree with that nonsensical cliché of "the exception proving the rule" I give wholehearted applause to the exception that overcomes the lack of balance in said rule.
 
The only wiggle room I see is that the Commission "considers" the station silent for longer than one year to be expired as a matter of law. Could they change this "consideration" for AM stations that have FM translators?

Only if the provision Flying Dutchman referred to about a translator only being able to stay on the air and directly originate programming for 24 hours after its parent AM being off the air is also "considered".

To be fair, that rule also applies to translators that have FMs or HD subchannels of FMs as their programming origin, but the issue appears to be more relevant to the AM discussion.
 
Thank you, Michi, for the addition of those qualifying details. It brings additional context but also (unfortunately) serves as validation of my -- and others' -- statement that the success cannot be replicated here. As you, yourself say:



A lot of that can be attributed to the relative difference between the two countries, not only in size but in the effects of being so much larger. More bureaucracy, too many bad decisions which seemed right at the time (even when people tried to point out the potential pitfalls ... the majority of which came to pass), too much capitalism driving the legislative and regulatory processes.



So ... X-band was not the savior hoped for, largely due to consumers not inclined to buy new radios to make it work (as I said, if we learn from that mistake, repurposing channels 5 and 6 from TV to FM will be nothing more than a new version of the X-Band debacle). Other "ideas" which sound good but are not feasible, such as blanket power increases for all AMs, are -- I hope and pray -- never going to get any serious consideration.

I agree that the outlook for AM's continued existence is doomed. There will still be a lot of high-powered stations that survive, similar but not identical to the handful of SW stations that still exist, and there are likely to be rural areas where the coverage area of a translator is insufficient to reach everyone in an emergency or public safety situation, but otherwise the translators are keeping stations that would have likely gone silent by now if forced to transmit only on AM viable in their local communities.

There is no good reason to force AMs that now only exist to feed translators (i.e., the AM audience is negligible) to remain on the air just for that purpose. And the only way to allow them to go silent without also taking the low-wattage FM off the air, as now legally required, is to change the rules and regulations and create a lower FM class which is essentially the current translator technical limits and provide some degree of contour protection (certainly not as much as even a full-power Class A) so that those can operate without fear of being forced off the air by a larger broadcaster.

As I see it, this is the only way to preserve service to the community. The only reason to oppose it is wanting to make the bigger stations even bigger and I'm not willing to agree to that, because the smaller owners who would be able to use this change in status to stay on the air need to be able to take their AMs silent without fear that their FM will be steamrolled out of the way by a bigger station widening their own road.

I simply do not see any other viable solutions other than letting stations fail with no recourse to their owners or the communities they serve.
I think you have it right. people here keep saying we can't do this or that because it violates such-and-such an FCC regulation. Well those regulations need to be changed. It just makes no sense to force an operator to continue operating on AM when virtually 100% of their audience is listening to an FM translator. I don't think anyone here is talking about increasing the power of a translator just letting them operate with the existing power. Without the AM.
 
I don't think anyone here is talking about increasing the power of a translator just letting them operate with the existing power. Without the AM.

That's pretty much what I have been advocating. I have never advocated for anything more than licensing those translators as a separate class of service, with no change in their licensed operating parameters other than contour protection.

I have, however, also said that there would need to be conditions placed on these conversions at the outset:
  • Only translators which have AMs as their program source would be eligible. None of the ones fed by FMs (including HD).
  • The AM would be required to go permanently silent after some reasonable amount of time to make the handful of remaining AM listeners aware of the transition (similar to that five year period when X-band was introduced).
  • The translator would be required to take the call letters of the silent AM, except where those calls are already being used with the -"FM" suffix, in which case the licensee would have to determine which FM got the calls and be required to change the other's.
  • No modification of the licensed parameters could be applied for during the first license term under the new class, and no modification could be filed for in conjunction with the relicensing as the new class of service.
  • Once that term expired, any modification has to protect other stations' contours, just as with everyone else.

I would probably mandate a minimum period of ownership before these could be sold, although I suspect that very little of that would happen anyway, because those owners would have every reason to continue operating the FM once that albatross of AM was removed from around their necks.

Those who lean on the excuse of "that goes against the regs" must be reminded that the Communications Act, when originally written, had no provision for translators in the first place. And "because that's the way we've always done it" is also not a valid excuse.
 
The only station's broadcasting high school games, community events, and local news for several towns in my State are AM's with FM translators.
 
The only station's broadcasting high school games, community events, and local news for several towns in my State are AM's with FM translators.

Still, the key is that those stations are serving their communities with that programming. If no one listens to them on AM they deserve to be allowed to take it silent and continue to serve their local area's needs on FM alone.
 
Other than the aforementioned ethnic broadcasters, this would appear to be the rare example of a mainstream X-band station surviving; I wonder, given their 1630kHz frequency, if there aren't a lot of radios that aren't designed to tune above 1600 but still are able to that helps make KCJJ listenable. I suspect that to be the case since they surrendered their original 1560 license so readily when the time came to do so.
The 1560 license also had a very strange operating schedule: 1 kw, DA-2, except between Iowa City sunset and Los Angeles sunset, when, at first it was off the air and later had 4 watts. So the move to 1630 allowed them to ditch all that. WQXR was making noises as well about the operating schedule in Iowa City.
 
The 1560 license also had a very strange operating schedule: 1 kw, DA-2, except between Iowa City sunset and Los Angeles sunset, when, at first it was off the air and later had 4 watts. So the move to 1630 allowed them to ditch all that. WQXR was making noises as well about the operating schedule in Iowa City.
I bought a portable Panasonic radio to listen to baseball out of my deck.It goes up to 1700kHz. It is also listed on Amazon as a best-seller.So apparently somebody's buying portable radios?
 
I bought a portable Panasonic radio to listen to baseball out of my deck.It goes up to 1700kHz. It is also listed on Amazon as a best-seller.So apparently somebody's buying portable radios?
It's easy to find portable radios, just that the vast majority of consumers don't want them.
 
Those who lean on the excuse of "that goes against the regs" must be reminded that the Communications Act, when originally written, had no provision for translators in the first place. And "because that's the way we've always done it" is also not a valid excuse.
Heck, if you read the publications from the era, you can see that there was at least some discussion of whether the owner of an AM could be allowed to own an FM as well. So, and in no small part owing to that concern, the earliest FMs were given "experimental" status with odd numbers and letters call signs.

Sidebar: a great "scholarly" article about newspaper consolidation through history and today: The Rise of a New Media Baron -

We are usually distracted in any analysis of the beginnings of FM by the Sarnoff-Armstrong battle. We don't always notice that adding an FM to an AM operation was of some concern. "Sarnoff", best spelled "$arnoff" in this case, began to smell money in TV and not in "just more radio stations" and relatively cheap radio sets.

RCA wanted TV, they wanted to extend their radio talents to the video medium and they wanted to sell expensive TV sets. They did not see FM doing anything major to expand revenue.

But we ended up with the rules of 7/7/7 with, eventually, two of those 7 TVs being, ugh, UHF.

So regulations reflected the concerns of politicians, and not always the needs of the people. As the noted mid-20th Century philosopher and pundit said, "What's up, doc?"
 
I bought a portable Panasonic radio to listen to baseball out of my deck.It goes up to 1700kHz. It is also listed on Amazon as a best-seller.So apparently somebody's buying portable radios?
In this case, "best seller" means "best seller in its category".
 
In this case, "best seller" means "best seller in its category".
I know David. There just seemed to be some posts earlier in the thread that imply that you can't get radios that go up to 1700 kHz AM and I was just saying that's not true. if you want one they're out there
 
  • The AM would be required to go permanently silent after some reasonable amount of time to make the handful of remaining AM listeners aware of the transition (similar to that five year period when X-band was introduced).
Look at the gradual transition of AMs to FM over the more recent decades in Canada:
  • The process was slow and measured for market impact to some extent.
  • Canada never over-radioed the AM band like the US did. They had few daytimers ever.
  • Content the is vastly more regulated
  • The AM continued for a month or two only after the FM was fully licensed and then it shut down.
  • Only a few of the AMs came back, often as minority group or First Nations services.
  • Leadership in moving to FM was taken by the CBC itself, with the closing of many 50 kw "clear channel" voices accompanied by a move to FM. Given the relatively high ratings of CBC services, those moves sort of vacated the whole band as far as listeners were concerned.
I'm not making any conclusions here, just tossing out some data. In any case, Canada's regulatory folks decided AM was pretty much dead and acted as pallbearers and not as emergency room physicians.
 
I know David. There just seemed to be some posts earlier in the thread that imply that you can't get radios that go up to 1700 kHz AM and I was just saying that's not true. if you want one they're out there
... so are buggy whips.
 
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