Question about HNIC

[FreddyE1977]

a question from a hockey fan in the US....

I was watching a Vintage Game on the NHL Network this morning. It was a game played
April 3, 1971 between the Maple Leafs and Bruins. The game was on HNIC, and the video was
a black-and-white kinescope. 1971 seems awfully late to be seeing black-and-white kinescopes,
so I was curious about the history of this film. Who made it and for what purpose? Were
black-and-white kinescopes still being used on Canadian television as late as 1971? Or was
it possibly made to be shown to Canadian Armed Forces stationed overseas somewhere?

 

[Davros2006]

I'm not sure if I can come up with an answer, but I can add to it the fact that some hockey clips from the late '60s and early '70s do exist in color, even if they weren't complete games. I've seen a few 1969 hockey fights archived in color as well as Bobby Orr's 1970 Cup-winning overtime goal, and a few clips from game 7 of the 1971 Cup Final (I do remember seeing some clips of Boston vs Montreal in the first round of the 1971 playoffs (Ken Dryden's rookie year) but I seem to have misplaced it).

 

[Tim L]

Been wondering where to ask this question..This seems to be a good time and place..I have gone through the NHL Network's "Vintage Games"..They seem to show them from oldest to newest..

My question is this (and I dont have much hope) are there any NHL Cleveland Barons Games that have ever been shown on the "Vintage" series..There were a few (very few) highlights in the Barons' two years in Cleveland (1976-78)..I guess I am also asking..Are there NHL Barons games anywhere that could be shown?

 

[timmyb]

I think this is how it was:

Most likely, CBC did kinescopes for shipping up to affiliates located in the remote Yukon (Whitehorse) and NWT (Yellowknife), and possibly Labrador. This probably included non-sports programming as well. The games were probably filmed, then airlifted for view in the hinterlands several days later, then either shipped back to Toronto or Montreal for the CBC archives. My guess is this was done until sometime c.1972 when satellites were used to uplink live coverage of events to the remote outposts and thus CBC North was born. The 1972 Canada-USSR summit series exists entirely on videotape, BTW.

The famed color videotaped Bobby Orr goal from the 1970 Stanley Cup Final is actually from the CBS telecast of the game. Dan Kelly called the game for CBS. It's Kelly's voice you hear on the tape. Meanwhile Bill Hewitt made the call for CBC.

Again, I understand that Brian McFarlane personally saved many of the kinescopes from this era, but some are gone, apparently including the CBC portion of the aforementioned Orr score. Nonetheless, these classic telecasts make the long hot summer easier to deal with! CBC (& McFarlane) did a way better job of preserving sports history than CBS or NBC ever did.

 

[timmyb]

Been wondering where to ask this question..This seems to be a good time and place..I have gone through the NHL Network's "Vintage Games"..They seem to show them from oldest to newest..

My question is this (and I dont have much hope) are there any NHL Cleveland Barons Games that have ever been shown on the "Vintage" series..There were a few (very few) highlights in the Barons' two years in Cleveland (1976-78)..I guess I am also asking..Are there NHL Barons games anywhere that could be shown?

Because the CBC archives are vast, I would bet that almost every game that HNIC was on since - I'd guess the mid-1970's - is preserved in full. If the Barons played either in Toronto or Montreal - maybe Vancouver, too - on a Saturday night from 1976-1978, then it's probably saved. BUT, whether you'll ever see those on the NHL Network's "Vintage Games"...I'm afraid to say, is doubtful

 

[FreddyE1977]

I think this is how it was:

Most likely, CBC did kinescopes for shipping up to affiliates located in the remote Yukon (Whitehorse) and NWT (Yellowknife), and possibly Labrador. This probably included non-sports programming as well. The games were probably filmed, then airlifted for view in the hinterlands several days later, then either shipped back to Toronto or Montreal for the CBC archives. My guess is this was done until sometime c.1972 when satellites were used to uplink live coverage of events to the remote outposts and thus CBC North was born.

Yes, that sounds very plausible. I was surprised to see this because it was from the era when I first started to follow hockey, which was long after kinescopes had gone by the wayside in the US. It was a fun program to watch....Bernie Parent in goal for the Leafs (on his 26th. birthday, as they pointed out....most people outside of Canada forget that Bernie was briefly a Leaf). Current Pens GM Emeritus Eddie Johnston in goal for Boston. Phil Esposito and Ken Hodge for Boston, Dave Keon and Brian "Spinner" Spencer on the Leafs. Thanks to the NHL Network for providing some nice summer entertainment.

I don't know where you can lay your hands on video of the NHL Cleveland Barons. I saw them once in person, in a Sunday matinee in what is now
Mellon Arena. (I believe it was a noon face-off to avoid a 4PM Steelers kick off....despite that the crowd was likely no more than 5000). I doubt
it was televised, the Pens were only showing about 20 games per season back then.

 

[webhamster]

I was reading back through this thread. There is some Cleveland Barons video available on YouTube but it's pretty poor quality.

Habs @ Barons (Nov 24, 1976) - poor quality, appears to be Super-8 or something filmed from the stands.
30 second clip of Bruins @ Barons (fight between Peter McNab & Len Frig) - much better quality

 

[MR5229]

I think this is how it was:

Most likely, CBC did kinescopes for shipping up to affiliates located in the remote Yukon (Whitehorse) and NWT (Yellowknife), and possibly Labrador. This probably included non-sports programming as well. The games were probably filmed, then airlifted for view in the hinterlands several days later, then either shipped back to Toronto or Montreal for the CBC archives. My guess is this was done until sometime c.1972 when satellites were used to uplink live coverage of events to the remote outposts and thus CBC North was born. The 1972 Canada-USSR summit series exists entirely on videotape, BTW.

The famed color videotaped Bobby Orr goal from the 1970 Stanley Cup Final is actually from the CBS telecast of the game. Dan Kelly called the game for CBS. It's Kelly's voice you hear on the tape. Meanwhile Bill Hewitt made the call for CBC.

Again, I understand that Brian McFarlane personally saved many of the kinescopes from this era, but some are gone, apparently including the CBC portion of the aforementioned Orr score. Nonetheless, these classic telecasts make the long hot summer easier to deal with! CBC (& McFarlane) did a way better job of preserving sports history than CBS or NBC ever did.

MLB Network in the USA is showing various classic games. One game in particular is between the Pittsburgh Pirates vs. Montreal Expos on September 2, 1970 in Parc Jarry which was broadcast on CBC. The footage from that game was archived on a black & white kinescope as well. There is a web article that discusses that game and the issue of the telecast being in color originally.

http://danweisman.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/04/les_expos_son_las_a_1970_tale.html

I was reading back through this thread. There is some Cleveland Barons video available on YouTube but it's pretty poor quality.

Habs @ Barons (Nov 24, 1976) - poor quality, appears to be Super-8 or something filmed from the stands.
30 second clip of Bruins @ Barons (fight between Peter McNab & Len Frig) - much better quality

There's also a youtube clip of the Atlanta Flames vs. the California Seals back in 1972. The California Seals were the predecessors of the Cleveland Barons. The clip is of a goal scored by California and the clip is in color, originally from a network telecast. The quality of the footage is ok, but not too crisp. You'll have to fast forward as the footage of the goal is a few minutes into the youtube film.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNvw2GzDF_w




[/quote]

MLB Network in the USA is showing various classic games. One game in particular is between the Pittsburgh Pirates vs. Montreal Expos on September 2, 1970 in Parc Jarry which was broadcast on CBC. The footage from that game was archived on a black & white kinescope as well. There is a web article that discusses that game and the issue of the telecast being in color originally.

http://danweisman.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/04/les_expos_son_las_a_1970_tale.html

I was reading back through this thread. There is some Cleveland Barons video available on YouTube but it's pretty poor quality.

Habs @ Barons (Nov 24, 1976) - poor quality, appears to be Super-8 or something filmed from the stands.
30 second clip of Bruins @ Barons (fight between Peter McNab & Len Frig) - much better quality

There's also a youtube clip of the Atlanta Flames vs. the California Seals back in 1972, who were the predecessors of the Cleveland Barons. The clip is of a goal scored by California and the clip is in color, originally from a network telecast. The quality of the footage is ok, but not too crisp. You'll have to fast forward as the footage of the goal is a few minutes into the youtube film.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNvw2GzDF_w

 

[ROBGv1]

Why cant NHL Network-US have the rights to Hockey Night In Canada?

 

[FreddyE1977]

Why cant NHL Network-US have the rights to Hockey Night In Canada?

Uh....they do. Or at least they did for the past two seasons.

 

[ROBGv1]

Yes but they share it with Center Ice. For example if the Bruins are on NESN NHL Network is blacked out till the game is over. Why can't NHL Network carry both early games?

 

[FreddyE1977]

NHL Network here in the States ran a nifty old kinescope of Game 6 of the 1967 Stanley Cup Finals over the weekend.
What struck me was how nonchalant the cup presentation after the game was, compared to today. It was not three
minutes after the final horn had sounded that Clarence Campbell was out at center ice with the cup, calling the
Maple Leafs captain over to present it. Most of the team gathered around for a brief celebration (winning goaltender
Terry Sawchuk had already gone to the dressing room!) Then they took the cup off the ice together and it was over.
No passing from player to player for an individual skate, just collect the trophy and let's all go play golf. Last year
when the Penguins won they were still all milling around on the ice an hour later, having brought up and dressed
every player from the minors who had spent a minute with them over the season to take their turn with the cup.
Somehow the old way seemed better. Act like you've won it before.

 

[Studio20]

Yes but they share it with Center Ice. For example if the Bruins are on NESN NHL Network is blacked out till the game is over. Why can't NHL Network carry both early games?

I think Center Ice got a little upset as both ends of the doubleheader AND after hours were being shown for free or sports tier pricing on NHL Network.

When a US team is involved, I certainly understand blacking out the HNIC feed in favor of the local guys, but delaying the replay of the doubleheader to Sunday afternoons for all of us, shouldnt have to happen.

Well, here in the States when ComcastCable gets done buying NBC, theyll turn Versus into their version of ESPN (Universal Sports, maybe?) and crank up hockey, big time. This was one of the reasons Comcast bought into the former SportsChannels that FSN no longer wanted.

 

[mjlarochelle]

NHL Network here in the States ran a nifty old kinescope of Game 6 of the 1967 Stanley Cup Finals over the weekend.
What struck me was how nonchalant the cup presentation after the game was, compared to today. It was not three
minutes after the final horn had sounded that Clarence Campbell was out at center ice with the cup, calling the
Maple Leafs captain over to present it. Most of the team gathered around for a brief celebration (winning goaltender
Terry Sawchuk had already gone to the dressing room!) Then they took the cup off the ice together and it was over.
No passing from player to player for an individual skate, just collect the trophy and let's all go play golf.

And just think, the Leafs haven't had an opportunity to improve upon that Cup win since then...

 

[blackgold]

I'll bet you that CBC will lose the NHL to the CTV-Rogers consortium when the contract expires after 2013-2014. They'll put all the Saturday Night games on Rogers Sportsnet and air the rest on TSN. You won't see any NHL on free TV in Canada after that happens.

 

[azumanga]

I'll bet you that CBC will lose the NHL to the CTV-Rogers consortium when the contract expires after 2013-2014. They'll put all the Saturday Night games on Rogers Sportsnet and air the rest on TSN. You won't see any NHL on free TV in Canada after that happens.

And technically, you won't see any "Hockey Night In Canada" on TV at all if that happens -- unlike The Hockey Theme, the CBC owns the HNIC name, meaning that CTV and/or Rogers will have to either use another name, or pay the CBC for the rights to use the HNIC name.

Of course, chances are the CBC will be willing to pay a pretty penny to keep hockey -- before the current contract was renewed in 2007, it was speculated that the CBC would lose hockey (this was after CTV / Rogers got the rights to the 2010 and 2012 Olympics); instead, its contract was renewed, while allowing TSN to expand its coverage during the week. Some said that CTV was unwilling to take hockey at full tilt, as it would pre-empt its more-lucrative American programming come playoff time.

 

[blackgold]

Well, if they want to renew the contract, CBC will have to bid for French-language rights for its Radio-Canada network, as well as for its 2 French cable networks if it's got any hope of holding onto it. Otherwise, they'll be in big trouble.

 

[azumanga]

Well, if they want to renew the contract, CBC will have to bid for French-language rights for... its 2 French cable networks if it's got any hope of holding onto it.

Never will happen -- one cable channel is news and information; the other is arts-related, and co-owned with Tele-Quebec and the Arte channel in France. If the CBC wants to put hockey on these channels, they will have to answer to the CRTC first.

 

[blackgold]

Anybody heard the news last week? TSN is planning English broadcasts of the Montreal Canadiens on a regional basis this season. Proves that the TSN/RDS combo is the dominant force in broadcasting NHL hockey. Looks like HNIC's days are numbered.