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QUESTION ABOUT NBC & AFFILIATE PRE-EMPTIONS

S

SteveRichards

I have read in numerous articles on Wikipedia, and I'm pretty sure I've seen it referenced a number of times on these boards over the years, where back in the day, NBC "was not as tolerant" of affiliate pre-emptions as the other networks. I also know that WSVN in Miami lost its NBC affiliation primarily because the station bumped an hour or two of daytime shows, and maybe an occasional prime-time show.

Aside from that, I remember listings from TV Guide (primarily from the 1980s) where many of the NBC affiliates bumped an hour (usually the 10AM/9C block), and possibly a bit more, of network daytime. Many NBC affiliates also occasionally bumped prime-time for Billy Graham specials, regional professional and college sports, and other programs. KSDK in St. Louis was a huge offender when it came to pre-empting daytime shows. At one time, I think outside of "Today," KSDK only cleared "Days of Our Lives" and "Another World." WDAF (now a Fox affiliate) in Kansas City also bumped moderate amounts of NBC shows over the years. KRON in San Francisco (when it was NBC) and the former Group W stations that were affiliated with NBC also bumped lots of shows. I'm also aware that WMC in Memphis was big on bumping NBC shows, particularly daytime shows.

I do know that NBC had pretty tight restrictions on "The Tonight Show." I think maybe 3 NBC affiliates (Birmingham, Minneapolis, and someplace in the east or southeast I can't think of right now) were ever allowed to delay Carson. Other stations that didn't want to carry Carson at 11:30/10:30 couldn't carry him at all, and Carson usually ended up on an independent station in those cities.

My question is, where does all this malarkey about NBC not being tolerant of pre-emptions come from? From what I remember and have read over the years, it just seems that many NBC affiliates were as bad, if not worse, about pre-emptions as the ABC and CBS affiliates.
 
I can say from looking at KYW-TV 3 (Cleveland) schedules from early 1957-early 1966, that NBC "tolerated" pre-emptions more than anything. They certainly did'nt like them. Westinghouse refused to Carry "Tonight" and Huntley-Brinkley was carried on WEWS-5 from Sept. 1959-July 1960. Westinghouse had a large number of local and regional productions that would pre-empt NBC shows..Because of the forced swap of stations in 1956, Westinghouse was not fond of NBC to say the least..
 
In the case of Miami, I am not so sure that WCKT (WSVN after 1983) ch 7 lost its NBC affiliation because of pre-emptions as much as because NBC purchased WTVJ (ch 4, now ch 6). I figure that pre-emptions were *a* reason that NBC was all too happy to purchase a station in Miami---but even after WTVJ got NBC, the 12 noon show "Super Password" was bumped! Until then, I always thought that O&O's *had* to run all network programming. Oh well.

Anyway, NBC dropped 12 noon programming shortly thereafter.

[WCKT/WSVN had NBC for 32 years plus, so that's another reason that I'm tentative about that "pre-emption" reason. I sure did miss watching NBC's game shows with a sharp picture in the 60s, tho'---I had to see fuzzy WPTV West Palm Beach; even then-indie WCIX picked up NBC for the 12:30 slot for a while.]

cd
 
In regard to WSVN/Miami, NBC saw Miami as an important and growing market. I believe NBC took the opportunity to buy WTVJ not only because of WSVN's pre-emptions, but also because the network thought it would be a strategic market in which to own a station.
 
If I'm not mistaken, during the days when Notre Dame owned WNDU-TV in South Bend, IN, I believe they pre-empted some shows too. I know they refused to carry certain primetime shows that didn't meet their decency standards. I don't know if that still holds true today, now that Notre Dame no longer owns WNDU-TV.
 
WSVN actually preempted about an hour a day of NBC shows. Occasionally they preempted a prime time movie from NBC in favor of a syndicated one. Ocasionally they preempted a low rated hour of prime time NBC shows for a special local show. They ran Saturday Mornings and sports pretty much intact. They preempted an average amount of NBC shows - no worse than most affiliates. Group W's KYW TV and WBZ TV were far worse than WSVN. Also looking at some San Francisco listings, KRON was also not too bad. They ran the 10 and 11 AM hours mostly.

Yes for a while WTVJ even did not run the noon offering from NBC. The reason I believe was because NBC was ending that half hour of programming and giving that time back anyway so why stop the noon news cast for a show that is leaving the lineup anyway.
 
WMC in Memphis was the worst about pre-emptions in daytime from the late 70's to the early 90's. They also pushed David Letterman back originally by 30 minutes and then later to an hour, and NBC apparently did little or nothing to stop it.

I've said that before that NBC let their affiliates get away with too many pre-emptions in the daytime. They should have put pressure on their affiliates to carry the daytime lineup or face penalties, even to the point of losing their affiliation, but they caved in instead. Because of that now all they have in daytime is an extended Today show and Days of Our Lives, and I won't be surprised if that eventually is cancelled and given back to local stations.

I believe NBC caving in to local stations is one of the major factors in the sorry state of daytime TV today.
 
Actually, WJW/8 in Cleveland pre-empted the Sunday morning Fox News show for infomercials in the mid 90's, after they became a Fox affiliate, but before they became an O&O. They still occasionally preempt or delay Fox prime-time when they carry Cleveland Browns prime-time cable games.

TVCOOL said:
At least Fox never had affiliate stations pre-empt Fox programming.
Click to expand...
 
anotherguy said:
WMC in Memphis was the worst about pre-emptions in daytime from the late 70's to the early 90's. They also pushed David Letterman back originally by 30 minutes and then later to an hour, and NBC apparently did little or nothing to stop it.

I've said that before that NBC let their affiliates get away with too many pre-emptions in the daytime. They should have put pressure on their affiliates to carry the daytime lineup or face penalties, even to the point of losing their affiliation, but they caved in instead. Because of that now all they have in daytime is an extended Today show and Days of Our Lives, and I won't be surprised if that eventually is cancelled and given back to local stations.

I believe NBC caving in to local stations is one of the major factors in the sorry state of daytime TV today.
Click to expand...

That got the ball rolling for ABC ,CBS ,FOX & NBC basically having no Daytime network schedules after 9-10 am. And here in Massachussess Fox 25 Boston has news from 4:30am until 10am (IMO Fox 25 News is #1) ,and from 10am until 10pm no news broadcasts (10am-8pm Regular programs and 8-10pm Fox programming).
 
Marckd said:
WSVN actually preempted about an hour a day of NBC shows. Occasionally they preempted a prime time movie from NBC in favor of a syndicated one. Ocasionally they preempted a low rated hour of prime time NBC shows for a special local show. They ran Saturday Mornings and sports pretty much intact. They preempted an average amount of NBC shows - no worse than most affiliates. Group W's KYW TV and WBZ TV were far worse than WSVN. Also looking at some San Francisco listings, KRON was also not too bad. They ran the 10 and 11 AM hours mostly.

Yes for a while WTVJ even did not run the noon offering from NBC. The reason I believe was because NBC was ending that half hour of programming and giving that time back anyway so why stop the noon news cast for a show that is leaving the lineup anyway.
Click to expand...

That makes sense, but WTVJ coulda delayed "Super Password" until a later time; not that I cared to watch....

Why would an NBC O&O be ashamed of a show? (In 1979 I would understand :) )

cd
 
Could any NBC affiliate have been worse than WSB? In the
last four years before it moved to ABC, it pre-empted 450
hours of network programming and was down to only two
daytime shows, "Today" and "Days Of Our Lives," at the time
of the switch in 1980 (it had already handed off "Another World,"
"The Doctors," David Letterman's morning show, and the soap
"Texas" to WXIA). It was also notorious for not carrying NBC's
sports programming (other than pro football) on Sunday afternoons,
preferring to fill the time with movies until 5 PM, when Lawrence Welk
came on. As I've mentioned before, Atlanta never saw "Sportsworld"
until WXIA got NBC.

And yet, NBC tolerated it, even fought to keep WSB in the fold because
it was their only affiliate in the top 25 markets that was still number one
in 1980. When WSB announced the switch, NBC put out a statement about
how happy they were to have WXIA as their new affiliate. It sounded more like
the loser of a sports event who doesn't sound sincere when he says nice
things about the person or team that won; after all, NBC was getting the third-
place station in the market.
 
I've always wondered about these daytime pre-emptions, not just with NBC, but with the other two as well...were the stations given the option to air some of these shows in a later timeslot (like in the late afternoons)? I mean, I look back at many of these retro schedules, some of these stations more or less had what would you call "disposable" time where they could re-placed these pre-empted programs.

To EJM's comments regarding WISN...they did clear the 10am hour from ABC, from what I can remember; All My Children aired at 11am, on a one-day delay.
 
I guess it really comes down to the market. When a network has no where else to go what's it gonna do? No network was going to leave VHF for UHF voluntarily.

Was their ever a case of this? Voluntarily?

Some markets like Baltimore and Providence could be covered by DC and Boston, so if the neighboring market had good penetration, that was something to consider. I know West Palm Beach stations reach decently down into Ft Lauderdale and Hollywood, at least back in analog days.
 
Mark said:
I guess it really comes down to the market. When a network has no where else to go what's it gonna do? No network was going to leave VHF for UHF voluntarily.

Was their ever a case of this? Voluntarily?

Some markets like Baltimore and Providence could be covered by DC and Boston, so if the neighboring market had good penetration, that was something to consider. I know West Palm Beach stations reach decently down into Ft Lauderdale and Hollywood, at least back in analog days.
Click to expand...

I agree with the second part of your statement...some stations could get away with it because you were close enough to a neighboring market. Then there's other cases where you're in a more-isolated location (like many of the western markets), and there's not a set of stations from another market within sight.
 
I think the NBC as "less tolerant" perception comes from the number of times they threatened to take an affiliation away. Philadelphia, Miami, San Francisco and Boston have been among the targeted cities over the years for this. NBC bought stations in Miami and the Bay Area to ensure compliance (and punish KRON for not being sold to them). They engineered the trade with Westinghouse sending KYW to Cleveland, and ultimately bought WCAU when Westinghouse bought CBS) . They tried to buy WNAC in Boston around 1960 only to have the Department of Justice scuttle the deal and had the original WHDH as a backup (they thought they were going to get the affiliation based on their purchase of RCA color equipment in the late 50s). If there was a choice NBC was sure to remind the offending affiliate even if nothing could be done.
 
I can add some insight to the two PA NBC stations I know best: WGAL (Lancaster) and WBRE (Wilkes-Barre).

From the early '70s up until August 1980, WGAL cleared the 12:00 noon show on NBC but never the 12:30. 12:30 was the time that "Noonday on 8" aired, which was their noon newscast. Anything offered by the network at 12:30 was not cleared. Coinciding with the shrinkage of "Another World" back to 60 minutes (from 90), and the moving of "The Doctors" from 2pm to 12:30 on August 4, 1980, WGAL moved "Noonday on 8" a half hour back to 12:00 so they could clear "The Doctors". As a result, from that point on, any 12:00 NBC offering never saw the light of day in this area. This includes, but is not limited to, the rest of the run of "Card Sharks", "Password Plus", reruns of "Diff'rent Strokes" and "Facts of Life", "Just Men", "Go", and "Super Password".

WBRE cleared almost everything that ran in the noon slot, except for a short time in 1983-1984 when it opted for "Love Connection" instead.
 
NoWayNoCC said:
TVCOOL said:
At least Fox never had affiliate stations pre-empt Fox programming.
Click to expand...

It didn't? Then how come WXIX Cincinnati used to preempt 'The Simpsons' or 'Cops' almost every other week?
Click to expand...

College basketball?
 
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