Question about Part 15 in Rural Areas...

[Mark_Ericson]

I've been considering buying myself an FM transmitter, just to play with and use to transmit my music around the property. Now I live out in the sticks and live on a large piece of land (100 acres).

From what I read, Part 15 limits radiation to 200 feet. That doesn't even make it out to my garden or halfway up my driveway or anything.

I'd have a next-to-zero chance of being caught anyway, but would the FCC have a problem with me going above the Part 15 power to cover my property? Or at least the part of my property that I'm on most often? I'm not talking about covering a 5 mile radius, but maybe 1000-1500 feet or so. (According to TopoUSA5.0, I'd need 3000 feet to cover the property entirely, but I don't think the signal would be able to deal with the hills anyway)

I'm so rural that the nearest radio station is 21 miles from me and is Class A (no radio stations--or traffic lights--in the county).

Thoughts?

- Trip<P ID="signature">______________
Visit my website, www.rabbitears.info! It's eventually going to be your one resource for television info! Digital television, histories, and technical information for the entire USA from one source!</P>

 

[nd2023]

You could get a 1 watt FM transmitter from somewhere on the Internet and then turn down the power so that the signal only covers your property. You probably could get away with even 1000 watts of power since you live in the middle of nowhere, and you won't interfere with local stations. There are pirates running more power in New York City (market #1) that haven't been busted for years.

Part 15 AM would cover your property legally at the maximum allowed power. Check the Community Radio board for more information.

> I've been considering buying myself an FM transmitter, just
> to play with and use to transmit my music around the
> property. Now I live out in the sticks and live on a large
> piece of land (100 acres).
>
> From what I read, Part 15 limits radiation to 200 feet.
> That doesn't even make it out to my garden or halfway up my
> driveway or anything.
>
> I'd have a next-to-zero chance of being caught anyway, but
> would the FCC have a problem with me going above the Part 15
> power to cover my property? Or at least the part of my
> property that I'm on most often? I'm not talking about
> covering a 5 mile radius, but maybe 1000-1500 feet or so.
> (According to TopoUSA5.0, I'd need 3000 feet to cover the
> property entirely, but I don't think the signal would be
> able to deal with the hills anyway)
>
> I'm so rural that the nearest radio station is 21 miles from
> me and is Class A (no radio stations--or traffic lights--in
> the county).
>
> Thoughts?
>
> - Trip
>
<P ID="signature">______________
17-year-old radio geek
Location: Princeton Junction, NJ
AIM: KewlDude471</P>

 

[KMRichards]

> You could get a 1 watt FM transmitter from somewhere on the
> Internet and then turn down the power so that the signal
> only covers your property. You probably could get away with
> even 1000 watts of power since you live in the middle of
> nowhere, and you won't interfere with local stations.

Generally speaking, the FCC only takes action when there are interference complaints made. If you take care to limit the coverage to your own property limits, who's going to hear it to complain?
<P ID="signature">______________


</P>

 

[Mark_Ericson]

> You could get a 1 watt FM transmitter from somewhere on the
> Internet and then turn down the power so that the signal
> only covers your property. You probably could get away with
> even 1000 watts of power since you live in the middle of
> nowhere, and you won't interfere with local stations. There
> are pirates running more power in New York City (market #1)
> that haven't been busted for years.
>
> Part 15 AM would cover your property legally at the maximum
> allowed power. Check the Community Radio board for more
> information.

Ooh. Didn't know that that's what that board was for. Oops. Perhaps a mod could move this for me?

http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/cgi-bin/commerce.exe?preadd=action&key=FM35

That's what I was looking at. It's got a power adjustment, though I can't seem to find any documentation to tell me what the power increments are. Because technically, that transmitter looks like it is capable of doing power low enough to be within Part 15. I could turn it up just high enough to cover what I need.

- Trip<P ID="signature">______________
Visit my website, www.rabbitears.info! It's eventually going to be your one resource for television info! Digital television, histories, and technical information for the entire USA from one source!</P>

 

[clichemoth]

> > You could get a 1 watt FM transmitter from somewhere on
> the
> > Internet and then turn down the power so that the signal
> > only covers your property. You probably could get away
> with
> > even 1000 watts of power since you live in the middle of
> > nowhere, and you won't interfere with local stations.
>
> Generally speaking, the FCC only takes action when there are
> interference complaints made. If you take care to limit the
> coverage to your own property limits, who's going to hear it
> to complain?
>
And even if tropo brings it to your neighbors, you shouldn't have a problem if you pick an empty channel. If there are 3 (or preferably 5) consecutive channels where you can't receive anything, tune your transmitter to the one in the middle. If there's nothing to interfere with, no one will complain. You might even end up with a real community station.

 

[radiomike]

Don't be so sure of this. Imus got busted for having an above part 15 transmitter on his ranch, so he could listen to radio while he worked at a distance from the house. All private and in the middle of nowhere. If is is above part 15 levels, it is illegal.


> You could get a 1 watt FM transmitter from somewhere on the
> Internet and then turn down the power so that the signal
> only covers your property. You probably could get away with
> even 1000 watts of power since you live in the middle of
> nowhere, and you won't interfere with local stations.

 

[Mark_Ericson]

> Don't be so sure of this. Imus got busted for having an
> above part 15 transmitter on his ranch, so he could listen
> to radio while he worked at a distance from the house. All
> private and in the middle of nowhere. If is is above part 15
> levels, it is illegal.


What were the specifics of his operation? Was he turned in? Was it causing interference to a station? Where is this ranch?

Because I'll put it like this. There are two roads that would even have a chance of hearing this, and neither one has lines painted on it. So for the FCC to just randomly drive down these roads... It's more likely that hell's cold than I'd get caught without being turned in.

And I don't think anyone around me would even have any IDEA that they could turn me in, let alone how to.

I'm not really concerned about getting caught. I operated a TV station with a range of ~500 feet on first channel 24, then 23 (when W54BT moved to 24), then 25 (when I needed 23 to get WCVE out of Richmond while W60BM was down). I operated it for about 5 or 6 months, until the cheap transmitter I had stopped working right. If I can get it working right again, I'll likely bring it back on channel 22 or something.

- Trip<P ID="signature">______________
Visit my website, www.rabbitears.info! It's eventually going to be your one resource for television info! Digital television, histories, and technical information for the entire USA from one source!</P>

 

[mikebatchelor]

As I remember, Imus was running about 30 watts, and simulcasting another station without consent on the frequency.

> > Don't be so sure of this. Imus got busted for having an
> > above part 15 transmitter on his ranch, so he could listen
>
> > to radio while he worked at a distance from the house. All
>
> > private and in the middle of nowhere. If is is above part
> 15
> > levels, it is illegal.
>
>
> What were the specifics of his operation? Was he turned in?
> Was it causing interference to a station? Where is this
> ranch?
>
> Because I'll put it like this. There are two roads that
> would even have a chance of hearing this, and neither one
> has lines painted on it. So for the FCC to just randomly
> drive down these roads... It's more likely that hell's cold
> than I'd get caught without being turned in.
>
> And I don't think anyone around me would even have any IDEA
> that they could turn me in, let alone how to.
>
> I'm not really concerned about getting caught. I operated a
> TV station with a range of ~500 feet on first channel 24,
> then 23 (when W54BT moved to 24), then 25 (when I needed 23
> to get WCVE out of Richmond while W60BM was down). I
> operated it for about 5 or 6 months, until the cheap
> transmitter I had stopped working right. If I can get it
> working right again, I'll likely bring it back on channel 22
> or something.
>
> - Trip
>

 

[Mark_Ericson]

> As I remember, Imus was running about 30 watts, and
> simulcasting another station without consent on the
> frequency.

Wow, 30 watts, no wonder he got shut down. There's a radio station over 40 miles from me that I can receive clearly and has 30 watts ERP.

I'd never get over 1 watt.

- Trip<P ID="signature">______________
Visit my website, www.rabbitears.info! It's eventually going to be your one resource for television info! Digital television, histories, and technical information for the entire USA from one source!</P>

 

[radiopilot]

> > As I remember, Imus was running about 30 watts, and
> > simulcasting another station without consent on the
> > frequency.
>
> Wow, 30 watts, no wonder he got shut down. There's a radio
> station over 40 miles from me that I can receive clearly and
> has 30 watts ERP.
>
> I'd never get over 1 watt.
>
> - Trip
>


Imus got busted by the FCC because of the content of his material and complaints by neighbors who listened in on his 'private FM station', he was rebroadcasting his New York program on his ranch... read the below:



Don Imus Ranch Gets Visit From FCC
It looks like the FCC has been focusing on bigger fish in the pirate sea. On Monday morning, nationally syndicated radio talk show host Don Imus announced on his radio program that the FCC made him shut down a low-power FM transmitter on his cattle ranch near Ribera, N.M., 50 miles northeast of Santa Fe. An unlikely pirate, Imus had installed the FM transmitter so his ranch-hands could listen to an Internet simulcast of his radio show, which originates in New York and is not carried locally in New Mexico. It's not clear just how much wattage Imus's unlicensed station was running, but Don claims it couldn't be heard oustide his seven-mile-wide ranch property.

On his Monday program Imus vowed to have frequent guest, incoming Senate Commerce Committee Chmn. John McCain (R-Ariz.), place a call to Colin Powell's son to resolve the matter. As Imus producer Bernard McGuirk pointed out on air, the Commerce Committee oversees the FCC, and Imus said McCain is known for "follow-through," unlike another occasional guest, Sen. Domenici (R-N.M.), in whose state transmitter was located.

Back in 2000, Sen. McCain came out as the only republican senator to strongly support the FCC's creation of a licensed low-power FM radio service, and floated serveral unsuccessful pieces of legislation that attempted to broaden its reach. However, these rules would do Imus no good because has no license.

An FCC spokesman said any transmitter that wasn't licensed and exceeded a certain geographic range would be in violation of law regardless of wattage and would be subject to removal, although he didn't know specifics of the Imus case.

For further info:
http://www.diymedia.net/archive/1202.htm#120402

7 miles of ranch could be covered by 1 watt and not get you in trouble from the FCC but interfering with another station and using certain language will get you caught each time!

Radiopilot

 

[ironbear]

> On his Monday program Imus vowed to have frequent guest,
> incoming Senate Commerce Committee Chmn. John McCain
> (R-Ariz.), place a call to Colin Powell's son to resolve the
> matter. As Imus producer Bernard McGuirk pointed out on air,
> the Commerce Committee oversees the FCC, and Imus said
> McCain is known for "follow-through," unlike another
> occasional guest, Sen. Domenici (R-N.M.), in whose state
> transmitter was located.

That's unfortunate for Imus. In such a remote area, the ranch could have easily have qualified for a LPFM license. Now, unfortunately, they'd be unlikely to get one, as former pirate operators are specifically excluded by rules made by Congress.

One thing though, I don't agree with McCain on many things, but I have always appreciated his strong advocacy for media diversity.

 

[radiopilot]

> > On his Monday program Imus vowed to have frequent guest,
> > incoming Senate Commerce Committee Chmn. John McCain
> > (R-Ariz.), place a call to Colin Powell's son to resolve
> the
> > matter. As Imus producer Bernard McGuirk pointed out on
> air,
> > the Commerce Committee oversees the FCC, and Imus said
> > McCain is known for "follow-through," unlike another
> > occasional guest, Sen. Domenici (R-N.M.), in whose state
> > transmitter was located.
>
> That's unfortunate for Imus. In such a remote area, the
> ranch could have easily have qualified for a LPFM license.
> Now, unfortunately, they'd be unlikely to get one, as former
> pirate operators are specifically excluded by rules made by
> Congress.
>
> One thing though, I don't agree with McCain on many things,
> but I have always appreciated his strong advocacy for media
> diversity.
>

Sure if you have the dough to pay these guys in office, they'll do anything...

Don't believe for a moment that LPFM was created for little mom and pop stations... these LPFM licenses were created for religous broadcasting and very little went to community based operations...

In 2002 when the FCC was auctioning FM licenses, and out of 256 FM licenses auctioned only 1 was bought by an independent small station... out of Cape Cod and it cost them 2+ million for it!

Even a college somewhere I read paid 7.5 million for a license... now if you want a FM license either the FCC ponies it up to the highest bidder or you'll have to buy an existing one if you can mortgage your home for 20 million or more!

Radiopilot

 

[ironbear]

> Sure if you have the dough to pay these guys in office,
> they'll do anything...
>
> Don't believe for a moment that LPFM was created for little
> mom and pop stations... these LPFM licenses were created for
> religous broadcasting and very little went to community
> based operations...

I hope Imus is able to do something to get the station back on the air, actually, but I doubt it, since Congress made such a point of the 'former pirate' exclusion.
That shuts out lots of us, including people who (like me) pirated 30 or more years ago.

It's sad what became of LPFM, partly due to the huge number of translator apps which presently exist, and due to those unfortunate changes in the original LPFM rules.

 

[viberadio]

Part 15 AM can go for miles LEGALLY.




> I've been considering buying myself an FM transmitter, just
> to play with and use to transmit my music around the
> property. Now I live out in the sticks and live on a large
> piece of land (100 acres).
>
> From what I read, Part 15 limits radiation to 200 feet.
> That doesn't even make it out to my garden or halfway up my
> driveway or anything.
>
> I'd have a next-to-zero chance of being caught anyway, but
> would the FCC have a problem with me going above the Part 15
> power to cover my property? Or at least the part of my
> property that I'm on most often? I'm not talking about
> covering a 5 mile radius, but maybe 1000-1500 feet or so.
> (According to TopoUSA5.0, I'd need 3000 feet to cover the
> property entirely, but I don't think the signal would be
> able to deal with the hills anyway)
>
> I'm so rural that the nearest radio station is 21 miles from
> me and is Class A (no radio stations--or traffic lights--in
> the county).
>
> Thoughts?
>
> - Trip
>

 

[pianoplayer88key]

what I'd like to be able to do with part 15 AM....

Ok... so here's one "normal" scenario:

Transmitter: Rangemaster at 100 milliwatts
Antenna & Ground: 102" Whip (or something better, but legal) antenna with a GOOD ground system (radials / rods / salt water at TX site / etc)
Frequency: a good one that gives the best possible coverage (not sure if 530 AM or 1700 AM, based on the good quality of the ground system used (would a good ground with a short antenna make 530 better or is 1700 ALWAYS better than 530 when using the 100mW/3m rule?))
ground conductivity to 10μV/m (or wherever it is that the signal would be fading to the limit of stereo reception on an SRF-42): 5,000 mS/m or better.
population density around station: lots of high-rise apartment buildings. Not sure how many people could live in the area but I'm going to guess it'd be a LOT.

Ok, what I'd like to be able to do is LEGALLY have the signal be heard by the SAME number of people as above when:
Transmitter, Antenna, Ground, Frequency: whatever
ground conductivity: < 0.1 mS/m
population density: out in the middle of nowhere - ranches possibly - maybe several miles between homes, with one or two people living at each.

 

[Tom_]

Re: Try Different Brands of Microtransmitters...

Different brands / models may work differently. I know someone who spent over $100 for a mail order model and it only went 10 feet or so. I suggested she return it. My Arkon analog model that is probably no longer on the market performs very well.

Also try to make a special antenna for your property tailored in length to the frequency that you broadcast from to maximize what the receiver gets, see:

http://kgnu.org/howtohear/antenna.html




> > > You could get a 1 watt FM transmitter from somewhere on
> > the
> > > Internet and then turn down the power so that the signal
>
> > > only covers your property. You probably could get away
> > with
> > > even 1000 watts of power since you live in the middle of
>
> > > nowhere, and you won't interfere with local stations.
> >
> > Generally speaking, the FCC only takes action when there
> are
> > interference complaints made. If you take care to limit
> the
> > coverage to your own property limits, who's going to hear
> it
> > to complain?
> >
> And even if tropo brings it to your neighbors, you shouldn't
> have a problem if you pick an empty channel. If there are 3
> (or preferably 5) consecutive channels where you can't
> receive anything, tune your transmitter to the one in the
> middle. If there's nothing to interfere with, no one will
> complain. You might even end up with a real community
> station.
>

 

[wcummings]

Here is a link to a very high quality 100mw FM stereo transmitter for $100.

With a simple 1/4 wave antenna this will do the job for you very nicely without getting out too far.

http://www.edmdesign.com/features.htm