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Question about WOWT Omaha

G

Gregg

Originally this station, Channel 6, was co-owned with WOW-AM-FM and was called WOW-TV. When the radio and TV stations were sold to different companies, they could no longer in those days share the same call letters. (Today that is permitted.)

The AM-FM combo kept the WOW call letters for a few years more. The W call letters were grandfathered, even though Omaha is well west of the Mississippi. So how did the TV station get new call letters that begin with a W? I suppose the new owners wanted call letters as similar to the old ones as possible. But just because the station had calls starting with a W when it was under previous ownership doesn't give the new owners the right to claim W call letters for the station.

I also notice WOW-TV had been a CBS affiliate. Oddly there was another CBS affiliate only about 40 miles away in Lincoln NE on Channel 10. That's pretty short spacing. KOLN is still with CBS but WOWT is now with NBC.




Gregg
[email protected]





There are about a dozen radio stati
 
I'm not sure how they got the WOWT call approved by the FCC. I know that some years later WMT-TV and WMT AM-FM in Cedar Rapids IA went their separate ways and the TV applied for a call with a W (maybe WMTV, WMTT ?) and it wasn't approved, so they became KGAN-TV.

The FCC has allowed a few AM stations who dropped their historic "W" call west of the Mississippi (or a 3-letter call) to later get it back, but only if the same company still owns the station that owned it when the old call was dropped. So 590 in Omaha could get back the WOW call since it's still owned by Journal, who dropped it back in the 90s. 590 is now co-owned with the present CBS affiliate in Omaha, KMTV, channel 3.

I do know of one former AM-TV combo that both kept the same calls, despite the radio station being sold off back in the late 60s. KVFD in
Fort Dodge IA. KVFD-AM 1400 was spun off, but the retained those calls while KVFD-TV continued until it folded in the mid-70s.
 
I know for the most part west of the Mississippi river they begin call letters begin with K, east of it with W. I could see some stations having kept the W if they're west of the Mississippi by possibly having offices/studios west of the Mississippi but their transmitters, towers and antenna could be on the east side of the river. I'm not sure how FCC rules work in that configuration but may be a possibility.
 
That's like asking how WDTV, the DuMont o&o in
Pittsburgh, got the KDKA call letters when Westinghouse
bought it, even though Pittsburgh is east of the Mississippi.
I think the only answer is indeed common ownership. (WDTV
subsequently became the calls of the CBS affiliate in Weston/
Clarksburg, WV, but there is no connection to the old WDTV
in Pittsburgh.)

KMOL San Antonio got back its original call letters, WOAI,
when the radio station owners repurchased the station and
decided that both should have the same call letters. Again,
San Antonio is west of the Mississippi.

But how have some stations been able to get three-letter
calls this day and age? Two examples, WJKW Cleveland
switched back to its former call letters, WJW; WWJ, the CBS
o&o in Detroit, uses the calls of the NBC affiliate before Post-Newsweek
bought Ch. 4 and changed its calls to WDIV.
 
Some of these examples are not like the others.

KDKA-TV and WWJ-TV were able to take those calls because they were co-owned with existing grandfathered examples of non-standard calls. Westinghouse already owned KDKA(AM), and CBS already owned WWJ(AM), and FCC practice has long allowed such "brand extensions." Recent examples have included WWL-FM in New Orleans and WBZ-FM in Boston.

In the case of WJKW/WJW-TV, the FCC was willing to allow the old 3-letter call to be preserved when former sister station WJW(AM) changed calls to WRMR in the 80s.

It's not codified anywhere in the rules, but the Media Bureau tends to be somewhat respectful of history, and if there's a historical case to be made for a non-standard call, the FCC seems to be willing to bend (but not completely break) - witness the University of Texas getting KUT(FM) for its new FM station in 1958, citing its long-ago (1920s) use of that three-letter call on AM, or the more recent return of KHJ in Los Angeles.

That's probably how WOW-TV became WOWT.

Truth is, callsigns these days are probably as much of an inconvenience as anything else to the FCC. The "facility ID number," not the call, is the primary way the FCC identifies stations nowadays - to them "WOWT" is really "65528."
 
Scott Fybush said:
Truth is, callsigns these days are probably as much of an inconvenience as anything else to the FCC. The "facility ID number," not the call, is the primary way the FCC identifies stations nowadays - to them "WOWT" is really "65528."
Click to expand...

The calls are actually (per the FCC TV Query) WOWT-TV, not WOWT(TV).

That aside, my real question is: at 10 PM when they put up their ID slide
(OK, that's real archaic...it's probably a graphic from their digital spot/event
player or even integrated into their news open), if the visual reads "65528"
instead of "WOWT-TV Omaha" will that be a legal legal ID to the FCC?

And how would the Omaha radio/TV geeks react on the Nebraska R-I board
to seeing "65528" at the TOH?

Of course, for a certain "almost a" daytimer AM in the Phoenix market, I hold
little hope of them being able to drop in an audio file of "11272" at sign-on
and sign-off--even if it is deemed legal! ;)
 
For now, the rules still require "calls-and-city-of-license," with no legal requirement to air the facility ID number.

I suspect that at some point before long, we'll see a rulemaking petition that would allow DTV stations (and maybe even HD FM stations) to do their legal ID as part of their datastream, rather than requiring an aural or visual ID.

I'll be sorry to see the legal ID requirement go...but it's probably served its purpose by now.
 
jh said:
I know that some years later WMT-TV and WMT AM-FM in Cedar Rapids IA went their separate ways and the TV applied for a call with a W (maybe WMTV, WMTT ?) and it wasn't approved, so they became KGAN-TV.
Click to expand...
...they'd have never gotten WMTV; that call has been on Channel 33/15 in Madison WI since '54...
 
Scott Fybush said:
Some of these examples are not like the others.

KDKA-TV and WWJ-TV were able to take those calls because they were co-owned with existing grandfathered examples of non-standard calls. Westinghouse already owned KDKA(AM), and CBS already owned WWJ(AM), and FCC practice has long allowed such "brand extensions." Recent examples have included WWL-FM in New Orleans and WBZ-FM in Boston.

In the case of WJKW/WJW-TV, the FCC was willing to allow the old 3-letter call to be preserved when former sister station WJW(AM) changed calls to WRMR in the 80s.

It's not codified anywhere in the rules, but the Media Bureau tends to be somewhat respectful of history, and if there's a historical case to be made for a non-standard call, the FCC seems to be willing to bend (but not completely break) - witness the University of Texas getting KUT(FM) for its new FM station in 1958, citing its long-ago (1920s) use of that three-letter call on AM, or the more recent return of KHJ in Los Angeles.

That's probably how WOW-TV became WOWT.

Truth is, callsigns these days are probably as much of an inconvenience as anything else to the FCC. The "facility ID number," not the call, is the primary way the FCC identifies stations nowadays - to them "WOWT" is really "65528."
Click to expand...

I figured as much about KDKA, knowing that Westinghouse had long owned the radio station. I also suspected, but didn't want to say it, that the FCC probably does respect history when it comes to these legendary old call letters (the original WWJ radio station in Detroit went on the air shortly after KDKA). One heritage station whose television calls were slightly modified was WBT Charlotte. When what was then Jefferson Standard Broadcasting got the license for a television station there, they were going to call it WBT-TV, but someone suggested it be simplified to WBTV, and so it was...and is, even though Raycom owns the television station today.

I wonder, when I post old Atlanta and Cincinnati schedules from the late '50/early '60s, how Crosley ever got away with identifying its stations as WLW-T, WLW-C, WLW-D, WLW-A, and WLW-I, or how Ch. 2 in Terre Haute, IN has long gotten away with W-TWO.
 
About call letters..other than KDKA, KYW and KQV why weren't there more "K" stations east of the Mississippi ? Where as there are/were quite a few of "W" stations to the west from Texas to Iowa and other states too.

Even though its a radio station, wonder what is the story with Hampton Roads' WGH? In 1984 WGH AM/FM became "WNSY" and the FM later went with "WRSR" (?) but in 1986 both AM/FM stations went back to WGH. How did they do it?
 
oldiesfan6479 said:
And how would the Omaha radio/TV geeks react on the Nebraska R-I board to seeing "65528" at the TOH?
Click to expand...

I think I know the answer to this one. Based on what I've seen, a radio/TV geek would post a "What the heck...?" thread about WOWT-TV's TOH ID, making it very clear that the thread was about a TV station, then someone else would respond with a complaint that this is Radio-Info, and discussions are supposed to be about radio, not TV.

Do I win a prize? ;D


mleach said:
About call letters..other than KDKA, KYW and KQV why weren't there more "K" stations east of the Mississippi ? Where as there are/were quite a few of "W" stations to the west from Texas to Iowa and other states too.
Click to expand...

IIRC, the K/W break was once at 100 deg W longitude, but was later moved to the Mississippi River. Existing stations west of the Mississippi were allowed to keep their "W" calls.

I don't know the actual numbers, but I'll bet that the overwhelming majority of "W" stations west of the Mississippi are heritage stations, with the occasional exception thrown in.
 
bpatrick said:
I wonder, when I post old Atlanta and Cincinnati schedules from the late '50/early '60s, how Crosley ever got away with identifying its stations as WLW-T, WLW-C, WLW-D, WLW-A, and WLW-I, or how Ch. 2 in Terre Haute, IN has long gotten away with W-TWO.
Click to expand...

None of those dashes were ever part of the legal callsigns.

Remember that TV IDs only need to be visual or aural. You don't have to do both unless you want to. So they could super "WLW-T Cincinnati" on the screen, but if the announcer said "WLWT Cincinnati" on the audio they'd be fine. I can't imagine the FCC would have a problem with "WLW{pause}T Cincinnati" either. (and I can't imagine the station would make their announcer say "WLW dash T"!)

(really, I wouldn't imagine the FCC would get too bent out of shape over "WLW-T" on the video even if that was the only ID)
 
dhett said:
IIRC, the K/W break was once at 100 deg W longitude, but was later moved to the Mississippi River. Existing stations west of the Mississippi were allowed to keep their "W" calls.

I don't know the actual numbers, but I'll bet that the overwhelming majority of "W" stations west of the Mississippi are heritage stations, with the occasional exception thrown in.
Click to expand...

Initially, the break was that maritime shore stations on the Atlantic and Gulf coasts got W calls; those on the Pacific coast got K. Nobody except hams had any reason to have a radio station more than a few miles from the coast, so they really didn't worry about having a dividing line at all.

Once broadcasting got cranked up, all of a sudden it made sense to have a radio station in Denver. So they had to set a dividing line. They chose the eastern borders of Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico. I suppose that way, they didn't have to change their policy for new maritime stations on the Texas and Louisiana coasts.

But that indeed wasn't a very even split. (probably more so back then in the 1920s when the big Western migration hadn't happened yet) Sure enough, a few years later the line was moved to the Mississippi.

The FCC floated the idea of dropping the distinction a few years ago -- they'd offer K and W calls everywhere, no east vs. west distinction. The industry shot it down in a hurry.
 
dhett said:
oldiesfan6479 said:
And how would the Omaha radio/TV geeks react on the Nebraska R-I board to seeing "65528" at the TOH?
Click to expand...
I think I know the answer to this one. Based on what I've seen, a radio/TV geek would post a "What the heck...?" thread about WOWT-TV's TOH ID, making it very clear that the thread was about a TV station, then someone else would respond with a complaint that this is Radio-Info, and discussions are supposed to be about radio, not TV.
Do I win a prize? ;D
Click to expand...

ROFL! Yeah, we get that on Tucson (radio) board about Tucson TV comments.

Oh, and the R/TV geeks across the river in Council Bluffs will be berated for
anything they post about Omaha and told to stay on the Iowa board! ;D
 
It's interesting that when the FCC began forcing the breakup
of radio-TV combos, several television stations adopted call
letters similar to the ones they'd been using. For example:

WGR-TV Ch. 2 Buffalo became WGRZ
WSM-TV Ch. 4 Nashville became WSMV
WTAR-TV Ch. 3 Norfolk, VA became WTKR
WREC-TV Ch. 3 Memphis became WREG
KSD-TV Ch. 5 St. Louis became KSDK

In 1979 there were reports that Cox and GE were about
to merge and that WSB-TV Ch. 2 Atlanta was going to
take the call letters WSBW. It never came off, else it's
possible WSB would have become an NBC o&o, WXIA would
have stayed with ABC and...oh, well, that's wishful thinking.
 
DToTheJ said:
bpatrick said:
I wonder... how Ch. 2 in Terre Haute, IN has long gotten away with W-TWO.
Click to expand...

I believe it's simply called "first dibs". ;D
Click to expand...

Second dibs, actually - channel 2 in Bangor, Maine was WTWO first, but changed calls to WLBZ-TV to match its sister AM station, thus freeing up the calls for use in Terre Haute.

As for the "TV stations splitting from radio but keeping similar-sounding calls" subthread, a few more:

WJW-TV > WJKW Cleveland (and later back to WJW when the opportunity arose)
WOR-TV > WWOR Secaucus, of course

s
 
And KOB-TV in Albuquerque got to keep the original calls but the AM-FM combo took KKOB as their call letters after the TV and radio stations were sold to separate owners.

Des Moines has the odd distinction of a non-commercial AM-FM sharing heritage call letters with a commercial broadcaster. WOI-AM-FM are NPR affiliates, owned I believe by the state university. But somewhere along the way, the university gave up its TV station, which is still WOI-TV, now an ABC affiliate. Des Moines may be the only TV market well west of the Mississippi with two W stations, WOI-TV and WHO-TV.

Was there ever a WBAP-TV in the Dallas-Fort Worth market? They have a WFAA-TV and ABC used to own WBAP-AM... but I guess ABC never got an O&O TV station in that market.



Gregg
[email protected]
 
Gregg said:
Was there ever a WBAP-TV in the Dallas-Fort Worth market? They have a WFAA-TV and ABC used to own WBAP-AM... but I guess ABC never got an O&O TV station in that market.



Gregg
[email protected]
Click to expand...

What is now KXAS NBC 5 in Dallas/Fort Worth was WBAP-TV. As for radio for many years both WFAA and WBAP I believe shared time on AM 570 in that region but I am not sure since I know little about that radio market.
 
Gregg said:
Des Moines has the odd distinction of a non-commercial AM-FM sharing heritage call letters with a commercial broadcaster. WOI-AM-FM are NPR affiliates, owned I believe by the state university. But somewhere along the way, the university gave up its TV station, which is still WOI-TV, now an ABC affiliate. Des Moines may be the only TV market well west of the Mississippi with two W stations, WOI-TV and WHO-TV.
Click to expand...

WOI-TV has been operated as a commercial ABC affiliate for MANY years. I'm pretty sure it was a commercial station from the beginning.

It would not be the only case of a public university operating a commercial TV station. KOMU in Columbia, Missouri would be another example.
 
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