question regarding the moves of CBE and CBEF, Windsor to FM

[JakeLongwell]

Hello all.

I wasn't sure which board would be better suited for this post, the Canada board, or the Detroit board. So hopefully someone here can help me out.

I have read and heard that both CBE and CBEF will be moving to the FM band. Frankly, I think the CBC is making a mistake trading these very useful AM channels for FM signals which will be medicore at best, I am sure.

But on to my questions regarding these moves.

Not living in the Windsor/Detroit area, I can only make an educated guess that both 540 and 1550 blanket the entire metro with no trouble. I am aware that CBE will be switching to two different FM channels, 97.5 and 91.9, I do not know what channel(s) CBEF has requested. With the move to FM, will the Windsor stations still be audible at all across the border in Michigan? I am guessing the answer would be no, especially since I read that the 97.5 has to be super directional so as to protect Detroit stations in the 97 MHz band.

Also, what about the Radio Two and Espace Musique transmitters in Windsor? Do they make it across the border at all? If so, and assuming they don't make any pattern changes, I think it would be very ironic, and very sad, that people stateside can hear the music programming of Radio Two and EM, but not the more informative programming offerd by Radio One and Premier Chaine, respectively.

Oh, and posting links to maps for the stations' coverage areas won't really help me. I am sight impaired, I can see some, but looking at a map is very difficult. So if someone could try to explain it in words, I'd be very grateful.

Thanks.

Jake Longwell
Upstate New York

 

[Dan Sys]

Here's the latest on this ever changing CBC drama in Windsor. CBE 1550 will be flipping outright to 97.5 FM with 19,000 watts (maximum ERP) and will become CBEW. They were originally granted a nested repeater on 102.3 with 3,300 watts, but the CBC in its wisdom (or total lack thereof) changed their mind and decided to go with the FM flip scenario instead. 91.9 CBEW-1 will be located in Leamington with 10,450 watts and will simulcast the new 97.5.

CBEF 540 was granted a nested repeater on 105.5 with 2.400 watts. As far as I can tell the CBC still plans to go ahead with this, so 540 should remain on the air (unless their braindead consultants recommend an outright FM flip for this one too).

 

[JakeLongwell]

Thanks, Dan.

I heard on a DX program I listen to that CBEF has also been granted a move to FM, and as a result, there were some very loud outcries from listeners. So much so, that some people wanted to petition the Ontario suppreme court to stop the CBC from making the move to FM. Could the program have actually been referring to CBE and not CBEF?

And, this still does not answer my initial question. Will there be any cross border reception of Radio One in the US once 1550 goes dark, as ultimately it will, unfortunately.

 

[Tincap]

Thanks, Dan.

I heard on a DX program I listen to that CBEF has also been granted a move to FM, and as a result, there were some very loud outcries from listeners. So much so, that some people wanted to petition the Ontario suppreme court to stop the CBC from making the move to FM. Could the program have actually been referring to CBE and not CBEF?

And, this still does not answer my initial question. Will there be any cross border reception of Radio One in the US once 1550 goes dark, as ultimately it will, unfortunately.

At just under 20kW, CBEW should be able to cover most of the Detroit metro area and the Leamington signal should be heard across Lake Erie, but none of that will not be relevant to those of us in Eastern Ontario (or Upstate New York).

I remember, the little jumps of joy in my heart, whenever I'd be driving up from the southern or western States and catching the CBC news on 1550...kind of like a homing beacon. Another big loss off of the AM band for sure.

As far as CBEF is concerned, I can imagine some francophones in Ontario being concerned about the change over, however there are numerous FM repeaters throughout southern Ontario which blanket the region. Now...how happy a transplanted Cajun, living on the outskirts of Detroit may be, I can only speculate!

BG

 

[mjlarochelle]

I have read and heard that both CBE and CBEF will be moving to the FM band. Frankly, I think the CBC is making a mistake trading these very useful AM channels for FM signals which will be medicore at best, I am sure.

More than likely, a religious or ethnic broadcaster in Detroit will snap up the 1550 frequency. There are a couple fairly low power religious AM stations in the Detroit metro area, which I can imagine would gladly move to a Class A frequency.

Not living in the Windsor/Detroit area, I can only make an educated guess that both 540 and 1550 blanket the entire metro with no trouble. I am aware that CBE will be switching to two different FM channels, 97.5 and 91.9, I do not know what channel(s) CBEF has requested. With the move to FM, will the Windsor stations still be audible at all across the border in Michigan? I am guessing the answer would be no, especially since I read that the 97.5 has to be super directional so as to protect Detroit stations in the 97 MHz band.

I know one person in Detroit and he does not get CBE very well at all, at least indoors.

One issue that will have to be addressed is that Wapole Island and some of the area north of Wallaceburg will be left with no CBC Radio One service as a result of this change. CBE is the only CBC signal there, as neither of CBE's FM repeaters in Chatham and Sarnia reach Wapole Island. CBEE-FM in Chatham, which barely even reaches Wallaceburg, is only 1,430 watts, and CBEG-FM in Sarnia is 1,800 watts. I expect CBC might seek a power increase for the Chatham transmitter.

The contour data I've seen from Industry Canada's database for 97.5 in Windsor indicates it will reach most of Metro Detroit, and actually will be directional away from the east. This is likely because of London's CIQM-FM, which is a 50,000 watt signal on 97.5. There is also WYDM, a 49-watt station on 97.5 in Monroe in the southwest direction from Windsor, but it is Class D so I'm not sure if it needs to be protected or not.

Also, what about the Radio Two and Espace Musique transmitters in Windsor? Do they make it across the border at all?

The Radio Two station, CBE-FM, is non-directional and covers the Detroit metro area quite nicely. Espace Musique, CJBC-FM-1, is directional to the southeast and on the American side covers downtown Detroit only.

 

[fybush]

More than likely, a religious or ethnic broadcaster in Detroit will snap up the 1550 frequency.

No.

1550 is reserved under international treaty for Canadian class A use.

Canada continues to report vacated AM facilities to the US as though they continue to be occupied, and the FCC is thus required under treaty to mandate that US stations protect those facilities as though they're still in use. (True story: WLIB 1190 in New York, when it added night service a decade ago, had to design its new night signal to protect CHTN in Charlottetown PEI, even though CHTN had long ago moved to 720 - and subsequently from 720 to FM.)

No vacated Canadian AM frequency has ever been "moved" across the border, and barring a major act of international diplomacy, none will be.

 

[JakeLongwell]

And, of course, it's highly unlikely that any new commercial broadcasters will want to set up shop on 1550 in Windsor.

The AM reactivations in cities like Toronto and Montreal prove more to be the exception, not the rule.

 

[audioguy]

I assumed that CBE had already signed off on the 1550 frequency, but I discovered this week that's not the case. They're not very easy to catch here in SW Michigan, but earlier this week I definitely heard them (unless there is another CBC AM station on that frequency), so I guess they are still on the air.

Does anyone know when they will be shutting off 1550? I will be sorry to see them leave the AM dial, but frankly they never had a very clear signal here in the U.S. due to their directional pattern to the east, and the fact that it's such a cluttered channel.