Could someone clarify the rules regarding translators for me? Aren't they supposed to be able to pick up the signal they are "repeating" over the air and not via a stream or other means?
Thanks in advance,
Marc
Thanks in advance,
Marc
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Question regarding translators/repeaters
- Thread starter haverhill01835
- Start date
Hi Marc,
Depends on the translator. Those below 92MHz, in the reserved band, can be fed by any means possible. Satellite, internet, STL, T1 etc. and don't have to be anywhere near their primary station. Hence the term "satellelators".
Above 92MHz, even if they are owned by a non-comm, they must pick up the on-air signal. An example of this is 99.9 in what at least by your handle, appears to be your hometown of Haverhill. After a receive antenna replacement and the addition of the Broadcast Warehouse RBRX-1 receiver (the best FM receiver for this purpose ever made), the signal is significantly cleaned up. Completed that project a couple months ago, and it was challenging to get a clean signal from 82 miles away in Maine, but it can be done with good equipment and antennas. Their receive/transmit antennas are half way up the WXRV tower.
A commercial station cannot own a translator beyond it's protected coverage. A non-comm can own one anywhere, but in the commercial band it must be fed off air.
The only difference with commercial band translators is if they are a "fill in" translator. Those that are located within the protected contour of the primary may be fed by any means. Those that are rebroadcasting an AM station fall under these rules as well. They can be fed by an STL of the operators choice.
Hope this helps clear it up a bit!
Depends on the translator. Those below 92MHz, in the reserved band, can be fed by any means possible. Satellite, internet, STL, T1 etc. and don't have to be anywhere near their primary station. Hence the term "satellelators".
Above 92MHz, even if they are owned by a non-comm, they must pick up the on-air signal. An example of this is 99.9 in what at least by your handle, appears to be your hometown of Haverhill. After a receive antenna replacement and the addition of the Broadcast Warehouse RBRX-1 receiver (the best FM receiver for this purpose ever made), the signal is significantly cleaned up. Completed that project a couple months ago, and it was challenging to get a clean signal from 82 miles away in Maine, but it can be done with good equipment and antennas. Their receive/transmit antennas are half way up the WXRV tower.
A commercial station cannot own a translator beyond it's protected coverage. A non-comm can own one anywhere, but in the commercial band it must be fed off air.
The only difference with commercial band translators is if they are a "fill in" translator. Those that are located within the protected contour of the primary may be fed by any means. Those that are rebroadcasting an AM station fall under these rules as well. They can be fed by an STL of the operators choice.
Hope this helps clear it up a bit!
That's exactly the station I'm wondering about...their signal has DRAMATICALLY improved recently (inc. coverage area around Greater Haverhill - so hats off to you) but wondered about the technical aspect of the rules.
That's one hell of a pick up from 82 miles away, even half way up WXRV's stick. Holy smokes!
Wish they were more "local" to my neck of the woods. Disappointing use of the signal in my opinion.
Thanks for the reply.
ML
That's one hell of a pick up from 82 miles away, even half way up WXRV's stick. Holy smokes!
Wish they were more "local" to my neck of the woods. Disappointing use of the signal in my opinion.
Thanks for the reply.
ML
I will attest to that little BW Broadcast RBRX1 rebroadcast receiver. We had a situation where a translator went on in the same market one channel away from our input. Even worst, it was directly in-line with the receive antenna orientation path, only four miles away. I was able to select the "Clean" preset and lock the I.F. manually to 62k. It fixed it right up.... Now it works better than before the adjacent channel problem. 
I'll vote for the RBRX1 too. I used one to replace a Fanfare tuner (which is an excellent piece of equipment) and a shoebox size pile of filters from Microwave Filters that cost almost as much as the fanfare tuner. I used the same Katerine Scala Log-Periodic antenna in both instances. The results were dramatic, with no adjacent channel problems and a greatly improved signal to noise. I believe this receiver even re-forms the stereo pilot, so the stereo separation greatly improved as well. I give it "two thumbs up."
Commercial band "fill-in" translators (inside the service contour of the primary FM, or one inside an AM 2 mv/m daytime coverage area) can be fed by STL, IP, or two soup cans and a long string--as well as off air.
Non-fill-in translators must still be fed off air from the primary or another translator.
Non-fill-in translators must still be fed off air from the primary or another translator.
Let's not forget the FCC's allowed use of translators to relay AMs and also HD signals now...
The only filter I used was a Microwave Filter mini-3 cavity filter to notch out 92.5, as there is 25kW ERP only 300' above the receive antenna. Installed a Scala log periodic receive antenna in place of the old Samco that was up there and got whacked with a chunk of ice. It was pointed right at 89.1 in Manchester and that has the IBOC blowers on, splattering all over 89.3. The original receiver was the internal card in the Crown transmitter--not made for a demanding situation such as this. The reason the coverage seemed so bad before is that most of the static you were hearing came from the receiver!
The 106.1 in Newburyport is being fed directly. 102.9 is actually transmitting in HD, besides being fed directly! The HD-2 and 3 are Costa-Eagle's other stations. WXRV is being fed by an uncompressed Moseley Starlink. Has nothing to do with translators, but just in case you were curious as you're in Haverhill. I can tell you that, but not my secret sauce for the audio processing
The RBRX-1 is an amazing piece of equipment. I maintain translators all over the northeast and used to use the Sony HD receiver, but that is not without its problems such as having to build outboard power supplies/backup batteries because if it loses power, it loses its mind. The BW stays where it's tuned, I have adjustable IF filters from 143KHz all the way down to 23KHz, those smaller filters are awesome when you're trying to pick up a mono station that's crammed in the middle of two class B's!!! There's also noise reduction with adaptive lowpass filtering, multipath detection and ultrasonic noise detection. Oh yeah, the thing has a composite output with a composite clipper and will either generate or pass the parent station's RDS. That's how I got the RDS on 99.9.
In a pinch, the thing can double as a stand alone stereo gen with the audio inputs.
The 106.1 in Newburyport is being fed directly. 102.9 is actually transmitting in HD, besides being fed directly! The HD-2 and 3 are Costa-Eagle's other stations. WXRV is being fed by an uncompressed Moseley Starlink. Has nothing to do with translators, but just in case you were curious as you're in Haverhill. I can tell you that, but not my secret sauce for the audio processing
The RBRX-1 is an amazing piece of equipment. I maintain translators all over the northeast and used to use the Sony HD receiver, but that is not without its problems such as having to build outboard power supplies/backup batteries because if it loses power, it loses its mind. The BW stays where it's tuned, I have adjustable IF filters from 143KHz all the way down to 23KHz, those smaller filters are awesome when you're trying to pick up a mono station that's crammed in the middle of two class B's!!! There's also noise reduction with adaptive lowpass filtering, multipath detection and ultrasonic noise detection. Oh yeah, the thing has a composite output with a composite clipper and will either generate or pass the parent station's RDS. That's how I got the RDS on 99.9.
In a pinch, the thing can double as a stand alone stereo gen with the audio inputs.
I thin the only thing that hasn't been mentioned is use of a translator by a third party outside of an FM's 60 dBu. This must be feed off air, and yes, its legal as long as the third party isn't paid for use of the translator. I stay as far away from those deals as possible,
As a side note I have also had an installation that tried one of the new Crown/Chrisso internal FM tuners with a co-located backup for a Class A. The Chrisso tuner worked much better than the original normal Crown internal tuner, but it still experienced a fair amount of interference from the high-powered backup transmitter sitting in the same room, same tower. I then tried my personally-owned RBRX1. The signal was 100 percent perfect with the RBRX1.
And, to be clear, the "white space' translators that extend service past the service-grade of the primary signal are still allowed to carry a 30 second support message and allowed to receive engineering help. There are ways to utilize that engineering help to pay for some costs in many cases. It sort of falls in the category of "creative financing"...
it seems like most of the ones I see are owned by attorneys,,,, wonder if the station, or someone at the station happens to be a client,,,,
TomT said:
So If I lease and HD2 and the FM translator, I can feed the translator directly with an STL as long as the HD2 is working?
Yes.
secondchoice said:
Any translator operating as any sort of fill-in service (Analog FM, HD# or AM) can be fed by any means desired including, but not limited to, direct off-the-air, STL, dedicate phone line, Streaming Internet or two Dixie cups and a string.
Regarding the HD carrier being on, we can extrapolate from statements that the FCC has made about AM, that a fill-in translator can continue to broadcast for up to 24 hours even if the HD2 carrier is turned off.
Around here there's a daytime AM with flee-power nights that's feeding their translator (really a full class A FM) with a 946.5 STL. Would be nice if the STL was actually licensed for the path & frequency.
FCC ran out of time to check on it last time through. Next time tho. ;D
FCC ran out of time to check on it last time through. Next time tho. ;D
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