Question: What Years Constitute "Oldies"?

[TheFonz]

Re: "Oldies" Years

> [This audience wore Brylcreem in their hair and called their
> friends "Daddy-o" back then too. Most people with any sort
> of life don't want to live in the past.]



If that's true, then that's why ALL Oldies formats are dying.



> [I'm not from Chicago, and have no idea what songs were
> legitimate local hits, but except for a very small number of
> music fans who bought and preserved the 45, I'd bet most
> people have long since forgotten those tunes.]



Then I guess you could say that WRLL plays a lot of "WOW" songs. And isn't that what "Jack" is all about??





[Am I to presume WRLL has actual figures on sales and jukebox
> play from their era? I doubt it. Radio station surveys and
> even Billboard charts were not necessarily a very accurate
> picture of popularity.]


Name a better source than Billboard.



> [Also, just because someone liked a song 45 years ago when
> they were 12 doesn't mean they still like it today.]


Then they wouldn't be a WRLL listener. Like the saying goes, "It's not for everybody".

 

[ErieLackawanna]

> I'd like to start a good, energetic discussion of what years
> constitute the "proper" years...beginning year to ending
> year...for an oldies station. Since the traditional boomer
> audience is aging...some will be 60 this year...how will
> that impact the core library of oldies?
>
> Personally, I prefer to hear an oldies station that
> concentrates on about 1963/1964 (Beach Boys, Beatles, Four
> Tops, Supremes, Stones and British Invasion) to about
> 1972/1973 (Ringo Starr, George Harrison, Crosby/Stills/Nash
> and Blood, Sweat & Tears stuff).
>
> I'm not partial to DooWop, early Rock N Roll nor Elvis.
> (Don't throw things at me, please!) I think of "Oldies" as
> 1963/64 through 1972/73 with British Invasion, the
> California Sound and Motown as the core artists/feel.
>
> How about some of your thoughts?
>


i was part of the start-up crew for an oldies station in 1989. we were told that "15 years old" would make an oldie. this was from the corporate vp of programming. so, i asked, that means nothing newer than '74. yes, i was told.
so the next year, asked about adding music from '75. we did. we added at least 50 tunes into rotation from '75. in 1991, we added some '76 tunes (maybe 40 or so). in '92, the vp off'd himself and the music stagnated.

for a 25 year old, a song that's 15 years old is an "oldie." so personally, i think Oldies stations should be playing rock&roll that's no newer than 15 years old. play the music of a listener's "youth," and you'll have 'em hooked. plus, as a bonus, the "kids" get to appreciate the 50's & 60's originals of hits they've heard recently.

personal taste not withstanding (oh God, the 80's would fall into that category, as would NKOTB), the survival of the format is in the willingness to respect the roots and the points to where those roots have led.

 

[Oldiesaholic]

> You have wonderful taste. I love it! The best of the best.
> Have you listened to any of the evening shows on
> Topshelfoldies.com? You would love Dave The Rave on
> Saturday.
>
> How about hitsofyesteryear.com. They sound more like WQAM
> from the sixties.
>I will soitenly give those a try!
>
>
> and replaced them with WRLL,
> > WLNG, and Sunday Oldies Jukebox!
> >
>

 

[clichemoth]

What's wrong with the 10-year rule?

> I'd like to start a good, energetic discussion of what years
> constitute the "proper" years...beginning year to ending
> year...for an oldies station. Since the traditional boomer
> audience is aging...some will be 60 this year...how will
> that impact the core library of oldies?
>
> Personally, I prefer to hear an oldies station that
> concentrates on about 1963/1964 (Beach Boys, Beatles, Four
> Tops, Supremes, Stones and British Invasion) to about
> 1972/1973 (Ringo Starr, George Harrison, Crosby/Stills/Nash
> and Blood, Sweat & Tears stuff).
>
> I'm not partial to DooWop, early Rock N Roll nor Elvis.
> (Don't throw things at me, please!) I think of "Oldies" as
> 1963/64 through 1972/73 with British Invasion, the
> California Sound and Motown as the core artists/feel.
>
> How about some of your thoughts?
>

What's wrong with the 10-year rule that's generally in use in classic country?

This would give programmers 40 years of music to work with (1955-95), with a center point smack in the middle.

http://musiclab.co.jp/billboard/at/no1hc/top40hits_1975.html <--- Every song to hit the pop charts in 1975 (the center year), in alphabetical order.

Starting there, you'd have a lot of funk/R&B (although not overwhelmingly so, a la Jammin' Oldies), the tail end of the British Invasion (which of course expands backwards to include the previous 10-odd years as well), some folk/country (which generally belongs more in AC or classic country), some hard rock (which belongs in classic rock), and some songs that no programmer not named Demento would touch with a 10-foot pole.

Going backwards from there, you have the timeless classics (Elvis, Orbison, Chuck Berry, The Beach Boys, etc.) and a lot of regional variation (doo-wop in the Northeast, rockabilly in the South, beach music on the Carolina coast, garage rock in the Northwest, surf instrumentals in California, etc.)

Going forward, stick to what can mesh with the earlier stuff you're playing. Rap probably wouldn't fit in under any circumstances, although there may be markets where some of the early pre-gangsta stuff would work (NYC, perhaps?). Some new wave/alternative could work, but not anything too aggressive or electronic. The same goes for R&B and dance.

In general, you'd play far less of the years at either end of the timeframe, although probably more earlier stuff than later.

Actually, that sounds a lot like what KFXR "The Mighty 1190" is doing in Dallas to counter Jack. When I'm getting it as nighttime DX, I usually linger for a while because they're playing great music.

Oldies was originally "anything CHR hasn't played for at least a year or so" anyway, which basically is Jack. Or at least his broader-focused kin working for Entercom and CC.

 

[Oldbones]

Re: "Oldies" Years

> [Am I to presume WRLL has actual figures on sales and
> jukebox
> > play from their era? I doubt it. Radio station surveys
> and
> > even Billboard charts were not necessarily a very accurate
>
> > picture of popularity.]
>
>
> Name a better source than Billboard.
>
>

Alas, there really aren't any accurate charts from that era. Billboard's charts are only as good as the data they received, and there were no real ways to verify the accuracy of what was reported...either sales or airplay.

Remember in the late 80s when "Dark Side Of The Moon" held the record for some phenominal number of weeks on the album chart? Dropped off like a stone once Soundscan was implemented. You'll notice the changes in the Hot 100 once BDS was implemented too...it marked the end of "paper adds".

 

[Oldbones]

Re: What's wrong with the 10-year rule?

Going backwards from there, you have the timeless classics (Elvis, Orbison, Chuck Berry, The Beach Boys, etc.) and a lot of regional variation (doo-wop in the Northeast, rockabilly in the South, beach music on the Carolina coast, garage rock in the Northwest, surf instrumentals in California, etc.)

I'd put doowop as more a mid-Atlantic states thing...NYC/Philly...I grew up in New England and rarely if ever heard that stuff.


Oldies was originally "anything CHR hasn't played for at least a year or so" anyway, which basically is Jack.

Not sure I agree with that. Most oldies stations I recall hearing in the 70s seemed to concentrate almost totally on pre-British invasion tunes...maybe a few post-1964 songs by artists who'd made their names by then (Beachboys, 4 Seasons, Roy Orbison, etc.)...you'd almost never hear British acts. It really wasn't until the late 70s/early 80s that we started to move toward the 1955-71 era, and definitely nothing any newer. Supposedly WCBS-FM played a handful of currents but they were the exception, not the rule.

 

[OldiesCat]

paper adds

Great point.

Paper adds through the (many)years are exactly why I have so strenuously disuaded Programmers(and radio geeks who chime in) from using chart info as basis for airplay. This is an especially major point to all the "gee THOUSANDS of songs charted thru the years but Oldies stations only play a few hundred" minions. While most Oldies stations who limited themselves to 200-300 songs have hurt the perception of the format, you can go way overboard in the other direction, as well.

>
> Remember in the late 80s when "Dark Side Of The Moon" held
> the record for some phenominal number of weeks on the album
> chart? Dropped off like a stone once Soundscan was
> implemented. You'll notice the changes in the Hot 100 once
> BDS was implemented too...it marked the end of "paper adds".
>

 

[am-fm]

Re: paper adds

> Great point.
>
> Paper adds through the (many)years are exactly why I have so
> strenuously disuaded Programmers(and radio geeks who chime
> in) from using chart info as basis for airplay. This is an
> especially major point to all the "gee THOUSANDS of songs
> charted thru the years but Oldies stations only play a few
> hundred" minions. While most Oldies stations who limited
> themselves to 200-300 songs have hurt the perception of the
> format, you can go way overboard in the other direction, as
> well.

Some songs are good - like Twist & Shout, Oh Pretty Woman & American Pie. Some songs suck like a Hoover - anything by Pat Boone.

Remember kids - hindsight is 20/20. All thoes cover songs from the 50's sucked wind and should never see radio airplay again....<P ID="signature">______________

AOL IM: wnjoldies or jamminoldies105
CBS-FM lives at http://67.83.115.5:8010
Oldies Board co-moderator</P>

 

[TheFonz]

Re: paper adds

> [Remember kids - hindsight is 20/20. All thoes cover songs
> from the 50's sucked wind and should never see radio airplay
> again....]



Maybe they did suck wind. But if you're programming to an audience that remembers the '50s (and I'm not talking about Oldies geeks) then they probably DON'T remembrer the original, unplayed versions.

 

[peppertree]

Re: What's wrong with the 10-year rule?

How can you get 1190? I could not even get them at night in Hill County. That is less than fifty miles south of their transmitter.

Mighty 1190 does a good job and I wish I could get them here in Austin. It would be nice if there were variations of the format in other stations. But I starting to dream. So I will stop.


Actually, that sounds a lot like what KFXR "The Mighty 1190" is doing in Dallas to counter Jack. When I'm getting it as nighttime DX, I usually linger for a while because they're playing great music.

Oldies was originally "anything CHR hasn't played for at least a year or so" anyway, which basically is Jack. Or at least his broader-focused kin working for Entercom and CC.

<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>

 

[OldiesCat]

paper adds

Very true- only the true hits hold up over time.
>
> Maybe they did suck wind. But if you're programming to an
> audience that remembers the '50s (and I'm not talking about
> Oldies geeks) then they probably DON'T remembrer the
> original, unplayed versions.
>

 

[954]

If later R&R can have its own niche, why can't oldies remain pre-1965, rather than having its boundaries moved every year?

I think that "rock" had replaced "rock & roll" as terminology by then anyway.

73s from 954<P ID="signature">______________
The New News/Talk WKAT ... Unforgettable WJNA</P>

 

[OldiesCat]

"Oldies"?

Very simple: because as the audience ages past 60, they listen less and less.
Less listening=less ad revenue. Many Oldies stations who've failed ro recognize this are either getting killed OR were forced to change format

(***there are exceptions, of course, no purchase necessary, void where prohibitied, not valid in all 50 states***)

> If later R&R can have its own niche, why can't oldies remain
> pre-1965, rather than having its boundaries moved every year?
>
> I think that "rock" had replaced "rock & roll" as
> terminology by then anyway.
>
> 73s from 954
>

 

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

Re: paper adds

> Great point.
>
> Paper adds through the (many)years are exactly why I have so
> strenuously disuaded Programmers(and radio geeks who chime
> in) from using chart info as basis for airplay.

Unless you're going to throw in some once-in-a-blue moon regional or local hits, or for specialty weekends, then consult the Top 40 charts of the LOCAL radio station(s).

Case in point: "Open Up Your Door" by Richard and the Young Lions. Not a national hit, but anyone in Cleveland or the Great Lakes would know it. And WMJI USED to program it; still should, but doesn't.

 

[OldiesCat]

paper adds

man, I'd say that's almost MORE dangerous. Many times, stations would have the playlist they were actually playing, another list for the record guys and still another version (surveys) to hand out. Very, very thin ice.

>
> Unless you're going to throw in some once-in-a-blue moon
> regional or local hits, or for specialty weekends, then
> consult the Top 40 charts of the LOCAL radio station(s).
>
> Case in point: "Open Up Your Door" by Richard and the Young
> Lions. Not a national hit, but anyone in Cleveland or the
> Great Lakes would know it. And WMJI USED to program it;
> still should, but doesn't.
>

 

[954]

Re: "Oldies" Years

> This audience wore Brylcreem in their hair and called their
> friends "Daddy-o" back then too. Most people with any sort
> of life don't want to live in the past.

So anyone who eschews rap in favor of listening to The Platters, Motown, jazz, Billie Holiday, Lena Horne, or the Inskpots is living in the past?

Uh.... I don't think so.

I'd call them people with good taste who don't mindlessly follow the tone-deaf crowd as children are wont to do.

73s from 954<P ID="signature">______________
The New News/Talk WKAT ... Unforgettable WJNA</P>

 

[954]

Re: "Oldies" Years

> The exceptions, of course, are the songs that have been
> played to death ever since you were 12 that you are now
> completely sick and tired of hearing. And unfortunately,
> thanks to traditional Oldies programming philosophy, that
> covers quite a few of 'em.

Yes... I can't think of how many songs make me think "Oh,
sh**, WMXJ's playing THAT again?"

I think WMXJ's playlist must be about 15 records.

73s from 954
<P ID="signature">______________
The New News/Talk WKAT ... Unforgettable WJNA</P>

 

[Oldbones]

Re: paper adds

>
>
> Maybe they did suck wind. But if you're programming to an
> audience that remembers the '50s (and I'm not talking about
> Oldies geeks) then they probably DON'T remembrer the
> original, unplayed versions.
>

That may be true with respect to obcure doo-wop songs, but you can't be suggesting that an oldies station play Pat Boone's version of "Tutti Fruiti" instead of Little Richard's just because the local station played PB in 1957. You'd have to have been living on the moon for the past 50 years not to be familiar with Little Richard's version.

 

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

Re: paper adds

> man, I'd say that's almost MORE dangerous. Many times,
> stations would have the playlist they were actually playing,
> another list for the record guys and still another version
> (surveys) to hand out. Very, very thin ice.

Yeah, but we're talking about some very small number of very BIG regional/local hits. Like the local garage band that had one big dance hall hit, but never got out of the city.

And, again, it's not regularly programmed. But, as I contend, SHOULD at least be in the record library.

Your *library*, even if you never play them, should be in the thousands. If you're any oldies station of worth, you've snatched up the library of your local Top 40 powerhouse(s) of the 60s and 70s (unless they sold those 45s and LPs to the local merchant).

 

[TheFonz]

Re: paper adds

> [That may be true with respect to obcure doo-wop songs, but
> you can't be suggesting that an oldies station play Pat
> Boone's version of "Tutti Fruiti" instead of Little
> Richard's just because the local station played PB in 1957.
> You'd have to have been living on the moon for the past 50
> years not to be familiar with Little Richard's version.]



The Pat Boone version reached a higher position on the NATIONAL charts than the Little Richard version (#12 vs #17). But sometimes we can have it both eays. WRLL, the great station that it is, played "I Hear You Knocking" by Gale Storm last week. It reached #2 in 1955. Today they played the Smiley Lewis version. It didn't even chart.