Questions about 650 WSM night coverage

[radiojay1]

I live in Johnston, RI just west of Providence and I always get other big AMs loud and clear at night like 1170 WWVA in Wheeling, WV and 1110 WBT in Charlotte, but 650 WSM is always fair at best no matter how late I listen. Sometimes I can't even get it at all while the other stations are booming in. I use a Superadio II, which I have turned in all directions, and also a high performance car radio and the reception is never that great far into the night and early morning. On the website it says about WSM's 50,000 watt clear channel power and its low 650 kilocycle frequency giving it an advantage in coverage, but I don't see that here in RI. Aren't they non-directional? Also, are kilocycles the same as kilohertz and is there an advantage in coverage to having a lower frequency on the AM dial?

 

[schmave]

WSM's dial position may give it an advantage in groundwave (which isn't great in much of the South due to poor ground conductivity), but I don't believe it helps in skywave. Here in Ohio, WSM is a dependable catch but I agree with you that it's usually not a blaster. It is non-directional, I believe.

 

[Len14043]

I have also wondered why their signal isn't impressive at night. It can't be because of the low frequency because KFI (640) and KNBR (680) blast in Wyoming which is well over 800 miles. WLW is also solid east of the Rockies. Perhaps there is a problem with WSM's transmitter.

 

[w9wi]

I have also wondered why their signal isn't impressive at night. It can't be because of the low frequency because KFI (640) and KNBR (680) blast in Wyoming which is well over 800 miles. WLW is also solid east of the Rockies. Perhaps there is a problem with WSM's transmitter.

- WSM is indeed non-directional both day and night.
- While I can't be absolutely certain, I'm quite confident their transmitter facility is up to par.
- I think the skywave point "schmave" posted is probably the relevant factor. Low dial position helps with local area coverage but not with skywave DX reception.
- WWVA and WBT are directional at night -- and their patterns favor your location in RI. WWVA is protecting a station in Tulsa, Okla.; their nighttime DA ensures they beam less than 50,000 watts in the direction of Tulsa. That power has to go somewhere, and where it goes is towards New England. So WWVA is effectively more than 50,000 watts in your direction. Similarly, WBT protects a station in Omaha, Neb..
- Yes, kilocycles are the same as kilohertz. Kilocycles is (are?) an obsolete term. (but most engineers understand it)

 

[chuckydoll]

WSM-650 reaching Providence? Not likely

Don't forget you have a local in WPRO-630. Its lobe runs NW-SE and the night signal should be interference-free.

You'll also have to put up with skywave from WFAN-660 out of NYC.

Incidentally, WSM is NOT a clear channel station. The FCC broke up the clear channels in the 1980s.

 

[vibe]

I live less than 1 hr north of Johnston and rarely get WWVA w/ any clarity but get WSM fairly well most of the time. Being further away from Johnston RI probably reduces the ocean effect and enhanced reception for WFAN 660 which may help getting WSM 650. I kinda agree w/ the original post because if one goes approx the same distance WEST of Nashville as Johnston RI (western Kansas) you can't receive 650 at all.

 

[cyberdad]

For whatever its worth....WSM pumps a hell of a nighttime signal into Northern Illinois. Always has. One of the stronger "clears" on the dial (or "ex-clears" depending on your preferred definition)

 

[mimo]

lately wsm has been putting a very strong signal into Ottawa Canada lately. They've been blowing out the much stronger 640 and 660 signals that usually dominate. They've sounded really go0d lately to0. I don't know if there's been any changes to their sound quality but even in mono am they sound so much better than other stations

 

[PhilJSmith67]

Most nights (including tonight) WSM booms into northern Illinois with no problem. I've heard it up in Sudbury and North Bay, Ontario with respectable strength, too. However, when I vacation at Kentucky Lake (Benton/Aurora area) the signal can be quite shoddy at night. During the day WSM puts a consistent signal into western Kentucky.

And, therein lies the problem. That ever-present groundwave begins fighting with skywave at night. I've noticed this with other flamethrowers like 890 WLS, too. WLS is fine during the day in central Illinois, in fact strong enough to show up in other markets' Arbs. But, at night, the signal can be plagued with fading. Go another 300 miles south into Arkansas or Tennesee and it's booming in.

 

[schmave]

That happens with every 50K station. At some certain distance from the tower, the skywave comes back to Earth and starts interfering with the groundwave. The further away you get, the skywave takes over competely and there is no more groundwave; the closer you get, the groundwave is strong enough to overcome pretty much any interference. I'm writing from Columbus, Ohio and here in the eastern suburbs, WLW's groundwave and skywave signals sometimes clash (I'm about 90 miles from the tower). That happens more in the summer than the winter.
In central Illinois, do you get cancellation with the other Chicago 50Ks or only with WLS? If it's only with WLS, it's probably because its tower is a good 30 miles south of the other big signals.

 

[PhilJSmith67]

... In central Illinois, do you get cancellation with the other Chicago 50Ks or only with WLS? If it's only with WLS, it's probably because its tower is a good 30 miles south of the other big signals.

Yes, in fact it occurs with other stations but it tends to be worse with WLS... Good point about their tower being the farthest south -- I live in Monee (not Central Ill) which is only about 10 miles from their transmitter at I-80 and US-45. Obviously, where I am the signal is STRONG.

As far as the other Chicago 50kw stations, although it is only on very rare occasion, even as far north as Monee I've heard mild signal fluctuation on 720 WGN and 780 WBBM during nights with very strong skywave propagation.

Back to WLS... On a recent trip to Florida I had no problems picking up WSCR, WGN and WBBM -- Even a little bit of WMVP -- But WLS was nowhere to be found, and there were no other strong 890's booming in. I wonder if all the buildings sprouting up in close proximity to the WLS transmitter are actually taking a toll on their reach.

 

[Eli Polonsky]

There's another 650 in Massachusetts just 32 miles north of Providence RI, WSRO in Ashland, in the suburbs west-southwest of Boston. It puts out 250 watts by day, and a big 9 watts at night. I don't know if that's a factor where you are, but it makes WSM a tough or noisy catch at night in metro Boston, unless they're hitting a really strong skywave. It completely blots out WSM in the Boston metro-west suburbs.

There is also often a very loud heterodyne over them, I don't know what that is. Maybe 1k, or under.

 

[jcolletta275]

Here in South-Central Michigan, WSM has been having problems ever since the Spring of 2005. Before then, I was able to pull them in loud and clear dependably every night. I noticed that the snow on the ground for most of the Winter of 04/05 helped considerably... those months were the strongest for WSM I've ever heard here. Then, when the snow cleared, WSM was shoddy at best. It's been that way ever since, even through this past Winter. I don't know if they've been tweaking, if something's wrong with the TX, if a raccoon's been pushing buttons in the TX shack (that's a funny sight to imagine!) or what, but two years ago there was definitely a change in their signal where I am.

 

[cheapman]

I'm actually in Tennessee, about 200 miles east of Nashville. WSM fades in and out here at night, but WLAC also out of Nashville comes in like a blowtorch. I've seen WSM's tower site and it's quite impressive to look at, but ground conductivity is obviously not something you can see with your eyes! I really do wish I could pick them up better here. There is no good classic country station here.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Sounds like their ground radials may need maintenance. The winter snow is a good clue - with marginal radials snow moisture helped the conductivity, but also corroded the radials. After that winter, apparently they were gone. That, or like WLS, there were some new subdivisions constructed nearby that changed the conductivity.

 

[K4WRF]

The only thing I can say with any certainty is the WSM-AM transmitter facility is not operating in any altered or compromised condition. All of the equipment is current with the exception of the antenna itself and we have no reason to believe there is an issue with that based on measurements and the continued stability of that entire antenna including ground system. I get good and bad reception reports on skywave constantly. It’s a mixed bag and reports are literally all over the map. Skywave propagation is fickle at best and I will receive one report that is good then another that is bad and both within a few miles of each other. I can only attribute these to aurora conditions or man made interference. From personal experience, I can travel two-hundred miles west to Memphis and the whole MF nighttime listening experience is different. Two-hundred miles south of there, it’s all different again. We have always felt that soil conditions around the transmitter site have some negative impact. The case with WSM and other stations is the constant urbanization has resulted in the removal, disturbance or displacement of top soil very near the antenna but outside the ground system. What used to be pastures and fields are now paved roads, housing tracts and office buildings. Has that affected the signal? In some directions, the field is lower but in others it’s higher. If you RMS that, it falls within the range of a few percent, we wonder about it but not to the point of loosing any sleep. Soil conductivity is published as 4 ms/m in this area and I can report it can get that high but average is about 2ms/m all the way down to less than 1.0 in some areas. Is it getting worse? It seems so but is cyclic not only in a seasonal condition but in decades. As far as the snow condition is concerned, we have known for a long time that things get real crazy when the surface of the soil passes through the freezing point. Field readings go high for the transitional period then settle down to some degree on the other side but very cold ground does conduct better. Why this happens I don’t know for sure. Based on measurements, soil moisture seems to have no impact on conductivity by itself. Seasonal conductivity changes can be drastic here but not necessarily traceable to soil temperature alone but the seasonal changes and the position of the sun; the arbiter of all propagation.
All reports appreciated.

w/
WSM-AM Engineering

 

[cyberdad]

Walt....

Thanks for your comments....basically what I expected to be the case. Very kind of you to go into it in such detail.

I've felt for many years that the engineering at WSM-AM has been "done right". The nighttime signal here at my location 50 miles northwest of Chicago is very good....as good as its been in my 30+ years of experience. Good enough to "hold off" any bleed from the local 50kw on 670 only 25 miles away. In August, I was in Northern Minnesota and observed WSM "drubbing" a local 650 at night. As for the daytime signal....I'll just say that WSM is clearly audible on a good car radio just about anywhere in the southern half of Illinois.

Indeed....no reason for you guys to lose any sleep!

 

[K4WRF]

I am always concerned about skywave conditions as WSM still values and works actively to protect its nighttime coverage. Any reports and comments are always considered and acted upon if warranted.

Many thanks to all,

w/
[email protected]

 

[Grrrradio]

Watt - Your station's signal regularly dominates the frequency at night up here in St. Paul, MN! I have an old Sanyo tuner from the 80s that renders a listenable WSM *even with no antenna attached.* There's a little something in the background (probably the Nashwauk, MN signal that a previous post mentioned), and a little bit of fading from time to time, but every song is completely listenable. (70 miles southwest of here, in Mankato, MN, the signal will almost always SEEK on a car! While I realize that this doesn't always mean much, given the signal-mixing nature of amplitude modulation, this particular seek is combined with full quieting of all background noise -- as if I had been listening to local KTOE. )

 

[PaulBWalkerJr]

Cubby:

Wow..... you must have some super powers or that tuner is extra special.

I heard WSM in Enfield, Connecticut clear as a bell one morning for several hours just before and around sunrise. I wasn't that far away from 50KW WNNZ 640.

Paul