Questions about Daytime Skywave Skip

[davideduardo]

AM radio on LW/MW/SW is one of the last remaining analog modes in widespread use, despite its decline over the years, and analog is just more fun (there's no cliff effect, so stations remain listenable under far worse conditions that would render a digital signal mostly unreadable).

But LW was never used in North and South America, and is now almost entirely gone in Europe, Africa and the Middle East.

Shortwave is losing stations every month, with most nations that had government SW systems having closed them in the last several decades.

AM is gone from many nations in Europe and Africa, while others have only a few stations left compared to the 60's and 70's. Canada has moved nearly all AMs to FM, and Mexico moved about 80% of AMs to that band,. In other nations in our Hemisphere, AM is gone or shrinking to nothing. Jamaica has no AM, and only one or two are left in the Lesser Antilles.

So LW is dead. SW has called a priest for its Last Rites, and AM is suffering from a terminal ailment.

 

[CentralFL]

For the 2017 eclipse I was visiting Columbia, Missouri, a city I know well. I noticed no unusual activity on the AM band before totality; after totality was an entirely different story. For me, reception was east-to-west, with stations from roughly 400-500 miles away predominating. It took about an hour for the enhanced reception to go away altogether. I tried to record some of this but my digital recorder created some kind of interaction with the DSP-based receiver I was using. I had to shut off the recorder as a result.

There was a partial solar eclipse in 1994. I was living in Kansas City then. I noticed reception enhancement for that eclipse as well, though the effects were less dramatic. For example, I could receive AM stations from southwest Missouri that normally were not received in Kansas City. At the time, I wrote this up for a post in rec.radio.broadcasting - I'll have to see if I can find it. I also had a correspondence going with a retired EE professor in Buffalo (I think it was) who noticed similar phenomena in that area during the partial eclipse.

Don't forget the annular eclipse this October, too! There's a good chance I'll be in New Mexico for that one, either in the Four Corners area (to get away from the Albuquerque Balloon Festival) or in Albuquerque itself.

I was in Colombia, Mo for the 2017 eclipse too! Small world. Didn't even think of checking AM for dxing.

We were staying in KC to see the eclipse but drove east pretty much last minute to stay ahead of the clouds and rain. It was a great decision.

 

[gr8oldies]

Thinking out loud...but maybe I should post a new thread. What could we do to track the April 2024 total eclipse, especially if there are DXers along the path of totality? The DX Central folks maybe? There was a station in Nashville that did a DX test during the eclipse.

 

[CentralFL]

I'm heading to Texas for next year's eclipse, but probably won't dx.

 

[Mark Roberts]

I was in Colombia, Mo for the 2017 eclipse too! Small world. Didn't even think of checking AM for dxing.

We were staying in KC to see the eclipse but drove east pretty much last minute to stay ahead of the clouds and rain. It was a great decision.

If you were at Perry Philips Park, then you and I were at the same location! We got very lucky, as the clouds parted just in time to see it all. It was an amazing experience. A friend in Harrisburg, Mo. had invited us up there; turns out that the clouds held out there.

We have plans for Texas next year and I'll probably bring some radios along. I kind of know the radio landscape in the area as a result of having worked in Houston radio. Time to study up soon!

 

[cyberdad]

Canada has moved nearly all AMs to FM, and Mexico moved about 80% of AMs to that band,.

AM is suffering from a terminal ailment.

Our daughter is here for a few days from SoCal, and I was explaining this after she asked me why the Los Angeles AM dial was mostly populated by religious and non-English speaking stations. (She's a language teacher at USC, which prompted her question),

Then we have Thunder Bay, Ontario....

A City of a little over 100,000 people fronting Lake Superior, Thunder Bay was the first city in North America I ever experienced with a blank AM dial. Hit the scan button in the car radio and the scan function just keeps on spinning. I investigated further and all I could hear...daytime with a good car radio...was a very weak WEBC from Duluth, MN, about 150 miles to the southwest. Worth noting that ground conductivity in the area is poor. Perhaps
also worth noting that there was no shortage of FM signals,

This was during Labor Day weekend of last year. A glimpse of the future?

 

[CCBInMI]

Around July 2003 or so, I was sitting in my car during lunch break at my workplace in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and pulled in 1630 WRDW from Augusta, GA (the expanded band counterpart of the station once owned by James Brown). This was about 2 in the afternoon. Bleedover from local WAAM (1600)? I checked. Nope! I'd gotten E-skip on FM of course but had no idea anything similar was possible on AM in broad daylight. Mind blown. It never happened again and the station was gone by the time my shift ended at 6:30.

I did pull in 580 CKPR a few times though, speaking of Thunder Bay.

 

[gr8oldies]

Around July 2003 or so, I was sitting in my car during lunch break at my workplace in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and pulled in 1630 WRDW from Augusta, GA (the expanded band counterpart of the station once owned by James Brown). This was about 2 in the afternoon. Bleedover from local WAAM (1600)? I checked. Nope! I'd gotten E-skip on FM of course but had no idea anything similar was possible on AM in broad daylight. Mind blown. It never happened again and the station was gone by the time my shift ended at 6:30.

I did pull in 580 CKPR a few times though, speaking of Thunder Bay.

Sometimes those expanded band and higher band signals can travel pretty good distances and hang in all day in the winter.

 

[davideduardo]

Sometimes those expanded band and higher band signals can travel pretty good distances and hang in all day in the winter.

My best daytime MW reception was a noon logging at Cleveland, Ohio, of 4VEH from Cap Hatien, Haiti, on 1035 kHz.

 

[cc333]

Then we have Thunder Bay, Ontario....

A City of a little over 100,000 people fronting Lake Superior, Thunder Bay was the first city in North America I ever experienced with a blank AM dial.,

This was during Labor Day weekend of last year. A glimpse of the future?

A future I don't expect to experience any time soon (the AM dial here in SF is quite crowded).

c

 

[Steve Green NEPA]

The daytime-skip (mid-Winter anomaly? Same thing?) back in Queens, near JFK, was starkly notable on two occasions. One morning in 1963, still dark out, daytimer WWHY Huntington WV on 1470 was the loudest non-local on the dial -- louder than WKBW a few kc away -- for nearly 45 minutes. Riveting listening it was, like maybe enjoying a double-rainbowfor 3/4s of an hour.
One February I was packing to move to Massachusetts, slipped on back-stoop ice and saw my Zenith 6-tube bounce down a few stairs. I immediately brought it back insde to see if it still worked, and went, 'Whew. Still works.' Within a while I tuned around to double-check, and was on 1300 for a half an hour. There was no sign of the usual WAVZ New Haven, nor the weaker WKQW in Rockland. Only a solid, pretty good half-hour signal from WKCY in Harrisonburg VA, only 320 or so miles.
Out here in PA, WDJO Cincinnati was there, weak but alone on 1480 one mid-afternoon off the GE SR 2. That was over 400 miles away. 12 years back, for a solid hour infomercial or Vitamin E, WVBF 1530was being as anomaly as possible. They're from some goofy dual-COL near Capr Cod, some 300 miles off.
The reason for my original query was that, with the *possible* execption of WVBF, all of those unlikely catches seemed to follow the arc of the Appalachian range.

 

[cc333]

I guess it's late in the season, but I wonder if there was some sort of similar thing going on a few weeks ago, when I received KRKK 1360 from Rock Springs, WY (almost 1,000 miles away by road; not sure of the distance as the crow flies, but it's probably not too far off) around 8:30 PM. It wasn't quite dark yet here (California), but the fact that it was dark in WY must have induced a sort of twilight skywave effect (is that a thing?)

Propagation seems like strange magic to me sometimes!

c

 

[jim-satx]

On Jan. 27, 2019, in San Antonio while driving in my car, I heard 730 XEX in Mexico City at 10:56 a.m. with “W Deportes” IDs and Spanish-language sports talk.

That is both the longest distance (702 miles) and lowest frequency (730) daytime skywave skip I’ve ever had on AM.

 

[cyberdad]

My observarion over the last several days is that conditions at my location haved gotten back to something close to normal. For example, the path to the prairie provinces of Canada was actually quite good. This after it had be4en completely shut down. But this morning about an hour before sunrise, CKDM and CKLQ were both stronger than usual. KDAL, CJOB, CFRY,and CBW were also solid.

The oddity was that WCCO was weak.

 

[formula72]

A future I don't expect to experience any time soon (the AM dial here in SF is quite crowded).

c

That's for sure!! And those with IBOC mess up receiving stations hundreds of miles away. 50Kw 770 KCBC has a very strong IBOC signal during the day, and it completely blocks out 780 KKOH from Reno NV, to anyone in its path. All I get is the sound of a waterfall, when it should be KKOH modulation.

AM radio stations moving to FM is not really prudent. The FM band is crowded as it is with all these junk LP-FM translators. Here in the South bay, we have a few LP-FM translators that are flooding the valley with unnecessary re-broadcast signals.

This is just my opinion, but we have way to many foreign and religious stations on both AM and FM. Radio has become a bit political, but I believe there should be a fair balance a genres. I do not care if there are 5 "foreign" radio stations, just as long as there are 5 country stations, 5 Jazz-Classical stations, 5 hip-hop /R&B and dance stations, and so on. The balance (in the Bay Area) is a bit tilted in favor of foreign and EMF (religious) stations. Many of these stations are hidden under the format guise of various or variety.

 

[boombox4]

This is just my opinion, but we have way to many foreign and religious stations on both AM and FM. Radio has become a bit political, but I believe there should be a fair balance a genres. I do not care if there are 5 "foreign" radio stations, just as long as there are 5 country stations, 5 Jazz-Classical stations, 5 hip-hop /R&B and dance stations, and so on. The balance (in the Bay Area) is a bit tilted in favor of foreign and EMF (religious) stations. Many of these stations are hidden under the format guise of various or variety.

I myself don't mind the foreign language and religious stations on AM -- or FM, for that matter. The US is a multicultural country, and newer immigrants who speak another primary language, and older immigrants who prefer their mother language are being served. And that's a quality use of the radio airwaves. Also, the foreign language stations provide a venue for audio advertising in those languages. I'm sure the English language FMs in your area, or mine, will put Spanish or Punjabi language spots on their stations.

I don't agree with a quota on formats.... That may work in a country where the government operated network predominates, but not so much here in the US (or Canada, for that matter, although Canada seems to have tighter broadcast rules).

 

[davideduardo]

This is just my opinion, but we have way to many foreign and religious stations on both AM and FM. Radio has become a bit political, but I believe there should be a fair balance a genres. I do not care if there are 5 "foreign" radio stations, just as long as there are 5 country stations, 5 Jazz-Classical stations, 5 hip-hop /R&B and dance stations, and so on.

"Foreign language" is not a format. Just in Spanish there are a half-dozen or so viable formats, just like in English.

Oh, and in California, "English" is the "foreign language".

And other large immigrant groups deserve to have radio service in the language they are most comfortable in. Mandarin Chinese, Tagalog, Thai, Japanese, Vietnamese, Farsi, Armenian and so on.

And the obvious fact is that stations that operate in languages other than English either can't compete against all the superior English language stations or can make more money serving a particular ethnic group.

And, just in case you are not aware, most who arrive in the USA as non-English speakers and as adults never are what we would call "totally bilingual". They understand better and communicate better in their birth tongue.

How may languages do you speak?

 

[formula72]

I do not speak any other languages.

I'm not disputing having "foreign" language radio stations, just that we should have a balance. Same goes for religious/EMF stations. Most of the radio stations that have turned over in the last 25 years (in my area) have either gone EMF or "ethnic".

I did not say foreign language was a format. I said, under the format guise of...I was was referring to this chart.. Radio Stations in San Francisco, California.

Oh, and in California, "English" is the "foreign language". Let me ask you...Is this a good thing?

 

[charlestondxman]

Charleston during the 2017 total solar eclipse was a lot of fun. I brought my radio just after totality and I could get stations I couldn’t usually get at all. I got WWVA Wheeling WV, 1190 from the DC area, WKIX Raleigh on 850, clearer signals on WPTF and WBT, WRVA Richmond, and multiple others that you usually couldn’t get at all.

 

[davideduardo]

Oh, and in California, "English" is the "foreign language". Let me ask you...Is this a good thing?

I can't change history. For hundreds of years it was Spanish speaking as a part of one of Spain's colonies.