Questions About the 25-54 Ratings

[Gregg]

According to an article in the Orange County Register, Mark & Brian are the #1 morning show in Adults 25-54, the prime sales demo in radio.

http://www.ocregister.com/entertainment/klos-241076-radio-adults.html

Mark & Brian have been around, what, 20 years. How does a morning show re-invent itself? The new Program Director, Bob Buchner, says he "turned up the heat in the hallways and no one felt it more than Mark & Brian." What does that mean?

The article also says Dr. Laura is now the #1 talk show in that same valued demo, 25-54, as well as being #1 among women 25-54 in her Noon-3pm daypart among talk stations. Again, how does a 20-something year radio vet reinvent herself? Didn't KFI give up on her because they thought her ratings were declining? Isn't KFWB's signal inferior to KFI, so Dr. Laura is further handicapped by not being on 640's 50,000 watt signal, yet she beats her old station, as well as KABC which also has a better signal than KFWB?

The Register article also says the top stations 25-54 are KIIS, KOST, KROQ and KLOS. Someone on another thread says The Wave, even after making changes to reduce Smooth Jazz instrumentals and increase the pop and soul AC vocals, is still only #17 25-54. It had a nice increase in the overall ratings but apparently those were people over 54 who came back... not the 25-54 audience.

So how does KIIS play contemporary hits aimed at teenagers and still get their mothers to listen or KROQ play alternative rock aimed at college students and still get their dads to listen? Meanwhile The Wave can only manage to be #17 among 25-54 adults. What's going on with adult radio listeners? Are they trying to keep up with their kids' music so they won't feel old? How does a station like the Wave that had been a 25-54 success story for years lose so much of its under 55 audience? The adult radio listener in LA would rather listen to the Black Eyed Peas or Lady Gaga than music aimed at adults?





Gregg
[email protected]

 

[davideduardo]

So how does KIIS play contemporary hits aimed at teenagers and still get their mothers to listen or KROQ play alternative rock aimed at college students and still get their dads to listen? Meanwhile The Wave can only manage to be #17 among 25-54 adults. What's going on with adult radio listeners? Are they trying to keep up with their kids' music so they won't feel old? How does a station like the Wave that had been a 25-54 success story for years lose so much of its under 55 audience? The adult radio listener in LA would rather listen to the Black Eyed Peas or Lady Gaga than music aimed at adults?

KIIS, and nearly all CHR stations, target 18-34 females. They tend to do so well with them that they look great in overall 25-54 and even 25-54 females.

KROQ is targeted at 25-44 males, maybe even 25-49 males, It is not targeted at 18-21 men; nobody is.

The Wave is a work in progress. It's AC with some instrumentals, and for the moment, that is an awfully 55+ approach. I listened, and it is waaaay to soft / old for me, but then again they are likely targeting women.

The Wave has been around 20th in 25-54 since the PPM hit. It had low cume potential in a ratings system that favors cume and TSL balance. It no longer gets the TSL of the past, because the rounding of the diary is gone. So, low cume, low TSL. Death. Beyond that, the Wave audience, which was 35-54 20 years ago, aged. Few new people came in, and the existing audience became 50+ over the years.

I have Bad Romance on my iPod. I do not have Kenny G.

 

[musicfan101]

Seriously? You have Lady Gaga on your IPod? You have an IPod? ;D

 

[davideduardo]

Seriously? You have Lady Gaga on your IPod? You have an IPod? ;D

I've got like 5 of them... going back to the original one... plus the first, second and third generation iPhone... the new 32 gb one holds a lot of music, too. I probably add about 10 to 12 new release cuts a week, too.

 

[airpab]

DE gave the technically correct answers to the initial question.

Now, I'll give the untechnical, politically incorrect answers:

-Pop music is dumbed down to the LCD (Lowest Common Denominator)
-More and more, people's taste and sophistication in music is becoming low-grade at best!...The fact that Lady Caca...I mean, Lady Gaga and the likes of Lil Wayne are so wildly popular, tells you everything you need to know about the coveted 25-54 demo!
-Stations like KIIS are so popular and sell record-breaking amounts of advertising...So what does that tell you about it's core listeners, in general?
-Commercial radio in general, is homgonized crap...You can go to almost any city in the country and here sameness in all of them!

So actually, I think radio is very reflective of society and where we are as a culture. When you have Lil Wayne, TI, Pink, Lady Gaga and all the other non-talents directly influencing our kids on (sex, drinking, fashion, partying, money, bling and the list goes on), it's no surprise that popular radio is exactly where it is....

In the toilet!!

 

[TheBigA]

-Commercial radio in general, is homgonized crap...You can go to almost any city in the country and here sameness in all of them!

Radio is not in the music business. You think the music we play sucks? Imagine being forced to sit in a room with it five days a week.

If you don't like the music, complain to the people who make it. They think they're brilliant, they think they're stars, and feel we all want to know what they think and how they feel.

Radio plays what it plays because the system rewards it for the music it plays. But don't worry...if the RIAA gets its way, you won't hear music on OTA radio any more. That'll be much better.

 

[michael hagerty]

KROQ is targeted at 25-44 males, maybe even 25-49 males.

Meaning KROQ is aiming at the same demo that KMPC aimed at in the 60s and 70s. Which gives you an idea of just how times have changed.

 

[radio124]

DE gave the technically correct answers to the initial question.

Now, I'll give the untechnical, politically incorrect answers:

-Pop music is dumbed down to the LCD (Lowest Common Denominator)
-More and more, people's taste and sophistication in music is becoming low-grade at best!...The fact that Lady Caca...I mean, Lady Gaga and the likes of Lil Wayne are so wildly popular, tells you everything you need to know about the coveted 25-54 demo!
-Stations like KIIS are so popular and sell record-breaking amounts of advertising...So what does that tell you about it's core listeners, in general?
-Commercial radio in general, is homgonized crap...You can go to almost any city in the country and here sameness in all of them!

So actually, I think radio is very reflective of society and where we are as a culture. When you have Lil Wayne, TI, Pink, Lady Gaga and all the other non-talents directly influencing our kids on (sex, drinking, fashion, partying, money, bling and the list goes on), it's no surprise that popular radio is exactly where it is....

In the toilet!!

I disagree with you about Lady Gaga. She definitely can sing and is talented. Lil' Wayne on the other hand. I can't for the life of me understand his appeal.

 

[RockTheGlobe]

The new Program Director, Bob Buchner

The KLOS PD is Bob Buchmann, not Buchner.

 

[Uncle Rob]

EVERY radio station is number 1 at (insert any # you pull out of your backside). They all are. Just ask them.

 

[justpassingthough]

DE gave the technically correct answers to the initial question.

Now, I'll give the untechnical, politically incorrect answers:

-Pop music is dumbed down to the LCD (Lowest Common Denominator)
-More and more, people's taste and sophistication in music is becoming low-grade at best!...The fact that Lady Caca...I mean, Lady Gaga and the likes of Lil Wayne are so wildly popular, tells you everything you need to know about the coveted 25-54 demo!
-Stations like KIIS are so popular and sell record-breaking amounts of advertising...So what does that tell you about it's core listeners, in general?
-Commercial radio in general, is homgonized crap...You can go to almost any city in the country and here sameness in all of them!

So actually, I think radio is very reflective of society and where we are as a culture. When you have Lil Wayne, TI, Pink, Lady Gaga and all the other non-talents directly influencing our kids on (sex, drinking, fashion, partying, money, bling and the list goes on), it's no surprise that popular radio is exactly where it is....

In the toilet!!

That wasn't so much untechnical and politically incorrect, as it is purely opinion. Every generation of music has had "talent" that wasn't talented, didn't live up to the hype or simply had a level of popularity that was not aligned with their level of talent. It was true in 1935, it was true in 1955, and it is true in 2010.

While it is probably a waste of time to defend these artists to you (and I agree that some are not talented), your statement is pure opinion and shows a lack of open mindedness. Simply because you do not like something does not mean that it does not possess artistic merit. Its strange that everything old is new again. If we went back 50 years and message boards were in existence, I'm guessing we would have seen the same ranting against "that damn rock n roll".

Perhaps an inability to adapt says more about you than the remainder of the 25 to 54 audience...

 

[airpab]

justpassingthrough-

First of all, "opinion" is what everyone does on this forum....at least last time I checked!

Second, BS! "Open-mindedness and adapting"? "Ranting against that damn Rock n Roll?"...........Give me a break??

To try and draw a comparison between Rock n Roll of yesteryear and today's music and pop-culture?.....Simply absurd!

It's so over-the-top today, it's almost comical...But it's no joke! Kids are directly influenced by what they hear on the radio and see on TV. Listen very carefully to lyrics today and watch the videos with your kids or grand-daughter...Then tell your little girl or grand-daughter, if you have one, to be "open minded" and "willing to adapt"??

The "adaptable" 25-54 audience! That would be the audience that would in large part, include Parents!...The audience that buries their collective heads, covers their eyes and preaches "open-mindedness" to their kids...The one that allows Lil Wayne to show their kids how to behave, what to strive for and how to become upstanding adults??

Call me what you want...But I will not "adapt" to the toxic, dumbed down, sludge that makes up a lot of today's popular music...and I won't let my teenaged kids be pulled down in to this pop-culture wasteland either!

Wish you and others would join me....Radio and maybe even society, might just begin to crawl out of it's morally bankrupt hole!

 

[TheBigA]

Wish you and others would join me....Radio and maybe even society, might just begin to crawl out of it's moral-less hole!

As long as Fox beats PBS, it won't happen. That doesn't mean YOU can't listen to something else. But radio isn't going to change to suit you.

The other issue is should the media get involved in censorship in order to appease people who find certain behavior improper?

 

[AM FM listener]

25-54 is a very broad age range; too broad, if you ask me. The low end, 25-34, has little in common with the high end, 45-54. That said, I listened to KIIS a lot when I was 20-something, then left them for KROQ in my 30's. Now, I listen to KIIS (and AMP) because I was re-introduced to CHR by my teenager. At 50, I have little in common with my former 25-year-old self but here I am listening to KIIS again so go figure.

 

[justpassingthough]

justpassingthrough-

First of all, "opinion" is what everyone does on this forum....at least last time I checked!

Second, BS! "Open-mindedness and adapting"? "Ranting against that damn Rock n Roll?"...........Give me a break??

To try and draw a comparison between Rock n Roll of yesteryear and today's music and pop-culture?.....Simply absurd!

It's so over-the-top today, it's almost comical...But it's no joke! Kids are directly influenced by what they hear on the radio and see on TV. Listen very carefully to lyrics today and watch the videos with your kids or grand-daughter...Then tell your little girl or grand-daughter, if you have one, to be "open minded" and "willing to adapt"??

The "adaptable" 25-54 audience! That would be the audience that would in large part, include Parents!...The audience that buries their collective heads, covers their eyes and preaches "open-mindedness" to their kids...The one that allows Lil Wayne to show their kids how to behave, what to strive for and how to become upstanding adults??

Call me what you want...But I will not "adapt" to the toxic, dumbed down, sludge that makes up a lot of today's popular music...and I won't let my teenaged kids be pulled down in to this pop-culture wasteland either!

Wish you and others would join me....Radio and maybe even society, might just begin to crawl out of it's morally bankrupt hole!

I disagree wholeheartedly. People can be morally bankrupt, but that is an individual decision; or in the case of children, most likely comes from a lack of parenting. Radio and society, while they have an impact, are not the only influence on children.

If I have to choose between today's society that allows for diversity of thought, opinion, people, race, sexuality, etc. versus centuries of opression of races, and the marginalization of minority people, thoughts, and ideas, I'm going to choose today any day. A call to return to "the way things were" is a thinly veiled attempt at saying that I am uncomfortable with today's open mindedness and the increasing visibility of 'different' ideas.

You have pointed out examples of some of the lowest common denominator pop acts, but for every Lil Wayne, there is a Pink who speaks to female empowerment and sexual freedom. So while you see today's pop culture wasteland as "toxic", I realize that if we do not allow for artistic freedom, we lose the good along with the bad. Isn't that what freedom is about in America? Freedom of speech means listening to even those with whom you disagree. If nothing else, though, it creates a dialogue for who we are as a society and where we are headed.

And, yes, this argument seems remarkedly similar to the arguments from the late '60s when the Baby Boomers rallied against the "Generation Gap". This argument is always in existence.

 

[radioresearcher]

25-54 is a very broad age range; too broad, if you ask me. The low end, 25-34, has little in common with the high end, 45-54. That said, I listened to KIIS a lot when I was 20-something, then left them for KROQ in my 30's. Now, I listen to KIIS (and AMP) because I was re-introduced to CHR by my teenager. At 50, I have little in common with my former 25-year-old self but here I am listening to KIIS again so go figure.

And PPM shows that as much or even more than the diary did. A station like KRTH is very heavy 45-54, while KIIS is stronger 25-44... you can see where a station lops off.

 

[michael hagerty]

25-54 is a very broad age range; too broad, if you ask me. The low end, 25-34, has little in common with the high end, 45-54. That said, I listened to KIIS a lot when I was 20-something, then left them for KROQ in my 30's. Now, I listen to KIIS (and AMP) because I was re-introduced to CHR by my teenager. At 50, I have little in common with my former 25-year-old self but here I am listening to KIIS again so go figure.

And when I programmed AC, I shot for the middle....programming neither to a 25 nor a 54 year old, but to a 39 year old. Done right, you get 35-44, the heart of the demo, with some splatter younger and older.

Today, that means programming to someone born in 1971. I programmed the gold based on the then (this is late 70s/very early 80s) popular concept of Peak Musical Awareness...that you're most tuned in to music between the ages of 16 and 22. So the core of that today is music from 1987 to 1993.

 

[davideduardo]

25-54 is a very broad age range; too broad, if you ask me.

25-54 is a sales demographic. In the more competitive markets... and that means any market the size of Traverse City or larger... stations look at tighter age ranges andeven a specific gender focus. Each station seeks to own a picece of the sales demos.

In truth, the sales demo range is 18-54, considering that youth leaning buys tend to start at 18 or even 21, but seldom is there a buy for over 55 or under 18 in radio.

When buys are made using ratings, often called "transactional business," not only does the agency look for a signficant audience and the right price per listener, but they also look for coverage of as much of the target as possible in terms of reach. THis means looking at duplication, and trying to get an optimum combination of price, reach of a high percent of the cume, and a desired repetition ("frequency") against the target. That's why buys of this nature include a variety of stations.