Quick question for Canadian TV geeks

[Stanislav]

When doing an item for TDITVH relating to the earliest CBC-TV stations, something hit me:

Montreal = CBMT.

Ottawa = CBOT.

But Toronto = CBLT. (?)

Why not CBTT, for consistency? Or was there some prohibition against repeating letters in a call sign?

See, this is exactly the sort of question that (a)keeps TV geeks up at night, and (b)provides evidence to our friends and loved ones that we are certifiably wacked..... ;D

 

[mleach]

I could be wrong about this...actually I think I am..but in Canada doesn't their version of the FCC assign the cal letters and the stations themselves do NOT have a choice? When Toronto's 1050 CHUM dropped their music format in favor of their infamous sports format some years back..I remember hearing somebody online during the "goodbye to 1050 CHUM " asking "why CHUM?" and some other guy says "..because Canada picked it". I had always thought that was a bit odd. Maybe a joke or something.

On a similar note..which country uses call letters that begin with the letter "B"? Reason I ask, a few years back I seem to recall checking out an aircheck that was featured on a Virginia site in their section of airchecks just before it seems the site had went down..for good and the call letters used on the aircheck were "AM 73 BWDP...the metro's best rock". "BWDP"? hmmmmmmmmmm. The girl on the aircheck sounded like an American to me ( of course that means nothing ) and she was playing The Clash "Train In Vain" but anyway..I know America uses "K" and "W", Canada uses "C"..and Mexico "X"..

but who in the hell uses "B"? At the time I was still in radio and none of us could figure this out.

oh for the record I tried emailing that site but it bounced back so I have no idea.

 

[KeithE4]

On a similar note..which country uses call letters that begin with the letter "B"? Reason I ask, a few years back I seem to recall checking out an aircheck that was featured on a Virginia site in their section of airchecks just before it seems the site had went down..for good and the call letters used on the aircheck were "AM 73 BWDP...the metro's best rock". "BWDP"? hmmmmmmmmmm. The girl on the aircheck sounded like an American to me ( of course that means nothing ) and she was playing The Clash "Train In Vain" but anyway..I know America uses "K" and "W", Canada uses "C"..and Mexico "X"..

but who in the hell uses "B"? At the time I was still in radio and none of us could figure this out.

China owns the entire B block, which means "BWDP" was either a Part 15 or a pirate.

And for the record, Canada only uses CF-CK, CY, and CZ in the C block (the latter two aren't used for broadcasting AFAIK). Chile uses CA-CE (they gave Canada permission to use the CB block many decades ago), Cuba uses CM-CO, and the Bahamas uses C6. Other countries use the rest of the block.

Mexico's X'es are only XA thru XI, of which only XE and XH are used for broadcasting.

Link: Wikipedia - ITU Prefix Allocations

 

[mleach]

China owns the entire B block, which means "BWDP" was either a Part 15 or a pirate.

The "pirate" part we left out since the aircheck we heard had jingles and even an Art Fleming liner. Yes THAT Art Fleming !! Maybe it was something out of China

But then again, my wife is from West Virginia and they had a priate station in her hometown that was on the air for a good four years ( 1979-1983 ) and not only they did have jingles and liners but even broadcast in stereo. How did they get away with it? Simple..MONEY !!!

The owner of this venture at the time also owned a good number of other businesses in her town so his businesses would advertise on those "regular" stations and as a result those owners said nothing ( the pirate had a different format from them anyway ). A simple case of the fear of losing a ton of money in ad sales vs. reporting this to the FCC, they stuck with the money and said nothing.

With that being said...maybe this was a pirate ( who was lucky enough to had a rich owner who had the money for Art Fleming) after all.

 

[Bluenoser]

When doing an item for TDITVH relating to the earliest CBC-TV stations, something hit me:

Montreal = CBMT.

Ottawa = CBOT.

But Toronto = CBLT. (?)

Why not CBTT, for consistency? Or was there some prohibition against repeating letters in a call sign?

Simple...CBM was the CBC radio station in Montreal, CBO in Ottawa and CBL Toronto. In the larger centers, when CBC launched a TV station in that city, they just tacked a T for television onto the radio calls to get the TV calls.

 

[w9wi]

Simple...CBM was the CBC radio station in Montreal, CBO in Ottawa and CBL Toronto. In the larger centers, when CBC launched a TV station in that city, they just tacked a T for television onto the radio calls to get the TV calls.

Which begs the question: why was the CBC radio station in Toronto CBL and not CBT?

In the beginning... there was a chain of radio stations operated by the Canadian National Railway. (for the entertainment of passengers on their trains!) The Toronto station was CNRT. Then, the stations were taken over by a Canadian Radio Commission - and the Toronto station became CRCT. But when the CBC came along, it switched not to CBT, but to CBL.

CBT was available, it would end up being used by a station on Newfoundland after they joined Confederation in 1949.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBLA - Wikipedia claims the calls stand for "CBC Great Lakes". Seems like a bit of a stretch.

There was a second CBC station in Toronto for some years in the 1930s/1940s/1950s. This one, too, didn't take the CBT calls -- it was CBY.

Four 3-letter CB- calls were never used. One can imagine they didn't want to use "CBC" for fear of stirring up claims of favoritism. Nor "CBS" for fear of confusion with the U.S. network. Why CBB and CBP were never used I have no idea.

 

[fybush]

"CBC" was used for a time, on the Toronto FM station. When the CBC opened its FM network in 1960, the Toronto station (then at 99.1) was CBC-FM. It apparently changed calls to the present CBL-FM in 1968, shortly after moving to 94.1.

As for the mystery "pirate" aircheck, I suspect that what you're hearing as "BWDP" is actually something that starts with a D. That would pin it to the Philippines, where the "metro" reference (as in "Metro Manila") makes perfect sense, too. And many Filipino FM stations not only use US-style callsign IDs, they also use US-style formatics, including the jingles and liners you heard.

 

[azumanga]

Four 3-letter CB- calls were never used. One can imagine they didn't want to use "CBC" for fear of stirring up claims of favoritism.

Though on Prince Edward Island, there is a CBCT television station, CBCT-FM radio (carrying CBC Radio One), and CBCH-FM (Radio 2, relaying Halifax's CBH-FM), but never "CBC". CBC never had an AM station on PEI -- prior to 1977, private station CFCY carried CBC radio programming. (Radio-Canada stations on PEI are CBAF-FM-15 (Première Chaîne) and CBAX-FM-1 (Espace musique, repeating Halifax's CBAX-FM).

Nor "CBS" for fear of confusion with the U.S. network.

Yet Sept-Îles, Quebec has CBST (repeating Rimouski's CJBR-TV, a Radio-Canada O&O), CBSI-FM (local PC station), and CBSE-FM (repeating Quebec City's Radio One, CBVE-FM), but there was never a "CBS" radio under the CBC.

Why CBB and CBP were never used I have no idea.

Though they do have CBN in St. John's NF (which came into existence while Pat Robertson was still a teenager).

 

[KeithE4]

As for the mystery "pirate" aircheck, I suspect that what you're hearing as "BWDP" is actually something that starts with a D. That would pin it to the Philippines, where the "metro" reference (as in "Metro Manila") makes perfect sense, too. And many Filipino FM stations not only use US-style callsign IDs, they also use US-style formatics, including the jingles and liners you heard.

That's certainly possible. The Philippines are assigned the DW-DZ block, assigned sometime after independence in 1946 (Germany had the whole D block prior to the war).

There is a DWDP on 106.9 (They use the American FM band there) in Calapan, operated by the "Civil Affairs Groups" of the Philippine Army. Those calls were formerly used on 1548 kHz in Dagupan City. That station is now DZSD. Could that be the station that the aircheck came from?

Link: AsiaWaves.net - Philippines FM 98-108 MHz
Link: AsiaWaves.net - Asian AM 1530-1549 kHz

 

[bpatrick]

How did CBET/9 Windsor come to have its
previous call letters, CKLW? BTW, I've listened
to CKLW radio many a night in Birmingham, AL.

 

[KeithE4]

How did CBET/9 Windsor come to have its
previous call letters, CKLW? BTW, I've listened
to CKLW radio many a night in Birmingham, AL.

It was co-owned with CKLW radio (Western Ontario Broadcasting, which was bought by RKO General) from the day it was founded in 1953 until the CBC took it over in 1975 (originally a joint venture of CBC and Baton Broadcasting, who bought CKLW radio when RKO was forced to sell in 1970).

 

[mjlarochelle]

How did CBET/9 Windsor come to have its
previous call letters, CKLW? BTW, I've listened
to CKLW radio many a night in Birmingham, AL.

It was co-owned with CKLW radio (Western Ontario Broadcasting, which was bought by RKO General) from the day it was founded in 1953 until the CBC took it over in 1975 (originally a joint venture of CBC and Baton Broadcasting, who bought CKLW radio when RKO was forced to sell in 1970).

The "LW" in CKLW stood for "London-Windsor". In 1933, London station CJGC and Windsor station CKOK teamed up to start a new station serving the two cities, CKLW. Less than a year later, the London Free Press (which owned the former CJGC) pulled out and re-started their station, but with the call letters CFPL.

In some cases, CBC has kept non-CBC standard call signs. I once read when CBC bought CJBR/CJBR-TV in Rimouski they had planned to change the callsigns to CBSR, but a local community outcry prompted them to keep CJBR. Most recently they have retained the TV callsigns of their French stations in Sherbrooke, Saguenay, and Trois-Rivieres (CKSH, CKTV, CKTM), which they bought from TQS last year. Other examples include English radio station CFPR in Prince Rupert, and the French radio stations CHFA Edmonton and CKSB St.-Boniface, all of which CBC bought from others.