R.I.P 1050 CHUM

[Radknowski]

>>Now that the CRTC has somewhat relaxed the rules for Oldies-Classic Hits on FM, is there any Toronto FM that might consider a format flip?>>

Am I reading this correctly? Canada wouldn't allow oldies on FM?

Effectively true until very recently. Mimo & Yezniknoradio are far more qualified and knowledgeable to address this/elaborate on this than me. Then there's the matter of can-con....which, for whatever negatives there may have been, had the effect of making for a deeper playlist. Personally, I liked it. I speak in the past tense, because as the Canadian oldies stations have tried to update themselves, IMHO, all they've done is made a mess of themselves (by mixing genres that don't blend very well).

Jack being a good example of that mess, which is why it likely moved more toward Classic Rock, but good luck competing with Q-107, the dominant Classic Rocker in Toronto, that as Jim Pastrick noted, has a good following in Buffalo, especially from listeners who enjoy Can-Con Classics like, say, Trooper, "Raise A Little Hell" and "One Fine Morning" by Lighhouse. Songs that I believe CHUM-AM played in regular rotation. 92.5 might be a good fit for Oldies-Classic Hits, but being a non-resident, this one is hard to call, so I'll leave it to the experts on this board.

See you on the Buffalo-Niagara Falls-Rochester board when you visit.

 

[radioman148]

>>Now that the CRTC has somewhat relaxed the rules for Oldies-Classic Hits on FM, is there any Toronto FM that might consider a format flip?>>

Am I reading this correctly? Canada wouldn't allow oldies on FM?

Effectively true until very recently. Mimo & Yezniknoradio are far more qualified and knowledgeable to address this/elaborate on this than me. Then there's the matter of can-con....which, for whatever negatives there may have been, had the effect of making for a deeper playlist. Personally, I liked it. I speak in the past tense, because as the Canadian oldies stations have tried to update themselves, IMHO, all they've done is made a mess of themselves (by mixing genres that don't blend very well).

What would be the reason to not allowing oldies or classics on FM?
I remember 45 years ago when there was no Top 40 on FM in the US, but that was soon changed.
Hard to believe that kind of stone age thinking entered into the 21st century Canada.

 

[gr8oldies]

CKLW-FM ran oldies as far back as 1987, I don't know if they got some kind of exemption for being in the shadow of Detroit (several years earlier the CRTC wouldn't hear of them doing CHR on FM).

 

[radioman148]

CKLW-FM ran oldies as far back as 1987, I don't know if they got some kind of exemption for being in the shadow of Detroit (several years earlier the CRTC wouldn't hear of them doing CHR on FM).

Why didn't the CRTC allow CHR or oldies on FM?

 

[Yeziknoradio]

The rules in Canada were designed to protect AM radio.
However, as of recently, it is now ok to do oldies on FM, excluding Ottawa and Quebec.

So, Toronto's 92.5 FM, if it wants, can go all oldies, but they may have trouble doing so because they are committed to 40% Can con, even though the CRTC regs dictate only 35%.

It has something to do with their arrangement with the CRTC in respect to obtaining and maintaining a licence on that frequency.

 

[gr8oldies]

Still not quite sure why the Canadian government is so invested in selling Godon Lightfoot, BTO, Guess Who, Anne Murray and Paul Anka boxed sets, but....

Seemed as though the CRTC thought of FM as a place for "good music" and talk up through the 80s. With "non-hit" requirements, it would have been very diffcult to do a "hit" radio format. At the 11th hour, the CRTC only approved CFXX (CKLW-FM) as a four hour format. The idea was to do what made CKLW big in the 60s, a rhythmic-leaning Top 40..but, the Canadian feds knew better. They did do oldies in 1987, then again about 1992 as "The Legend".

 

[radioman148]

Thanks for the explanations.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

Thanks for the explanations.

No problem.
It looks like, if 92.5 doesn't go all oldies, there will be a hole in the market for a *true* oldies station for quite a while because everyone else seems to be happy with their ratings.

I'm predicting that *if* any change comes to be, FM radio in Toronto will have more classics that relate to their current format rather than going all oldies.

(Flow playing more classic flow, for example, or Edge 102 playing their own CFNY "modern rock" classics if need be)

Did I miss an FM station?

 

[cyberdad]

Still not quite sure why the Canadian government is so invested in selling Godon Lightfoot, BTO, Guess Who, Anne Murray and Paul Anka boxed sets, but....

I used to get into Winnipeg on business all the time during the 90s. Right around the end of the decade, Burton Cummings, lead singer of the Guess Who, was hosting or co-hosting afternoon drive on the old CKY. Excellent program, btw, with a lot of stuff from his personal collection. It didn't hurt that putting 50kw on 580 in the prairies resulted in a monster signal.

Anyway, one afternoon he was talking about Can-con and how he originally strongly opposed it. But he also said over time he grudgingly came around to favor it. His reasoning was it gave a lot of work and a lot of exposure to bands and artists whom otherwise might not have gotten it. Some of which spilled even over this side of the border. When it came to oldies (CKY was an oldies station), Cummings said that the effect was gigs for some acts who hadn't been able to find steady work for years.

 

[radioman148]

Still not quite sure why the Canadian government is so invested in selling Godon Lightfoot, BTO, Guess Who, Anne Murray and Paul Anka boxed sets, but....

I used to get into Winnipeg on business all the time during the 90s. Right around the end of the decade, Burton Cummings, lead singer of the Guess Who, was hosting or co-hosting afternoon drive on the old CKY. Excellent program, btw, with a lot of stuff from his personal collection. It didn't hurt that putting 50kw on 580 in the prairies resulted in a monster signal.

Anyway, one afternoon he was talking about Can-con and how he originally strongly opposed it. But he also said over time he grudgingly came around to favor it. His reasoning was it gave a lot of work and a lot of exposure to bands and artists whom otherwise might not have gotten it. Some of which spilled even over this side of the border. When it came to oldies (CKY was an oldies station), Cummings said that the effect was gigs for some acts who hadn't been able to find steady work for years.

I used to travel in northern Minnesota. Near Bemidji, CKY came in like a local during the day. Anyway when they were playing oldies I had the opportunity to hear some Canadian bands that I had never heard before.

 

[klutch00]

What would be the reason to not allowing oldies or classics on FM?
I remember 45 years ago when there was no Top 40 on FM in the US, but that was soon changed.
Hard to believe that kind of stone age thinking entered into the 21st century Canada.

As I understand it this is not exactly true. There were a few FM stations (albeit JUST a few) which featured Top-40 programming. KLFM (@ 105.5 mHz) Long Beach, California did such a format from 1961 until 1966 and may have been the first station to do such a format without simulcasting an AM. Just outside Washington D.C. WPGC-FM began Simulcasting its AM in 1960. However until 1964, they signed on and off with their AM, a daytimer. In 1964, they would go to an eighteen hour broadcast day (6AM to Midnight) and would go 24 hours in 1968 or so. I believe a number of other FMs were simulcasting their AM top-40s about 1964, such as WIBG-FM (now WYSP) out of Philadelphia and WJBK-FM (now WDRQ) out of Detroit.

 

[cyberdad]

The original WRIT-FM (102.9) in Milwaukee simulcast the WRIT am top 40 (on 1340) for much of the 60s.

 

[radioman148]

WABC-FM would simulcast some of the AMs Top 40 format for part of the day in the 60s.
The Chicago areas first station to carry rock & roll on FM was WNWC in Arlington Heights, Il at night around 1965.

 

[MarkO]

I would guess that the first Top 40 available on FM in the Toronto area was the WYSL-FM (103.3, now WEDG-FM) simulcast of Buffalo's Drake-influenced WYSL-AM in the late 1960s.

 

[e-dawg]

Since 1050 Chum am is gone, there is 1150 from Hamilton which can be easily reach in GTA area.

 

[mjlarochelle]

This was covered in the new york boards a while back, and it's a go0d question. Sure they have very low ratings, BUT, the audience they have is VERY wealthy, it is the investors, the brokers and other wall street types who are listening. While it's a small audience the station actually makes some very serious money. Since they are getting the advertisers who want that upper end demo, which the station reaches.

I personally despise business radio, but this is the one station that works.

There's the Nasdaq and the TSX right? For the ratings they get, how much staff from each building is listening?

I would expect at least a full 1.0 share, givin that it is New York, and that *is* a lot of staff that's present in both buidings.
(and that's just those two buildings, to name one possible listener base)

It's just too bad the old CFBN 1280 would not have reached Bay Street. Having a business station on a low-power channel restricted to the immediate vicinity of YYZ is not a ratings generator, it can only work if it reaches the movers and shakers on Bay Street. Aside from the Internet stream they had, it MAY have reached business travellers driving onto the YYZ property, but that's it. Chances are they would've already had CBC, 680, or Rogers Batteryless on and wouldn't bother to change stations. And of course that's assuming they use Pearson rather than the Island airport, which I know has its share of use for business flights.

I would have rather CHUM became a new business station. At least it would've been better than the CP24 simulcast, which is a waste of a medium-wave channel. I highly doubt Mr. Fybush has a local AM station simulcasting R-News.

 

[fybush]

I would have rather CHUM became a new business station. At least it would've been better than the CP24 simulcast, which is a waste of a medium-wave channel. I highly doubt Mr. Fybush has a local AM station simulcasting R-News.

They sure tried to get one when I was working there, a decade ago - I know there were talks with several local AM operators about simulcasting our audio. Over in Albany, R News' sister station Capital News 9 is simulcast 24/7 on WUAM 900, for whatever that's worth, and another former sister station, Bay News 9 in Tampa, had an AM simulcast for some years as well.

 

[cyberdad]

It's just too bad the old CFBN 1280 would not have reached Bay Street. Having a business station on a low-power channel restricted to the immediate vicinity of YYZ is not a ratings generator, it can only work if it reaches the movers and shakers on Bay Street. Aside from the Internet stream they had, it MAY have reached business travellers driving onto the YYZ property, but that's it.

Quite a few of businesses out there by YYZ....including some of my customers! That said, I'm sure you're correct about Bay Street. When 1280 was occupied by CJJD/CHAM, there was a decent signal over most of the GTA, but probably not strong enough to penetrate the Bay Street high rise buildings.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

Good points Yeziknoradio (as usual! )

drt

Thanks! 6 months later and there's still a screen for CP24 television that could better be used as an extra traffic cam or something.

They should just go all radio and forget trying to show something on CP24 if they must stick with this CP 24 radio thing...

 

[lugnuts6]

I notice no live streamming for either CP24 or 1050