R.I.P. 1250

[FreddyE1977]

at least they didn't pipe in WTIC in Hartford, where the top of the hour beep was actually
a muti-tonal beeping arrangement of Yankee Doodle.

 

[dB]

Geeks get their beep direct from WWV......

 

[Talk_Dude]

Geeks get their beep direct from WWV......

That's easier to do today than it was in 1985.

 

[GrizzledVet]

Is that something that really makes a difference to the great unwashed, or is it just an "insider" thing that only radio pros notice?

I'll be kind enough to take your question at face value although my gut impression is that you may be trying to again sour a simple discussion and respect for the people being discussed here who did their jobs extremely well.

Part of the craft of radio is to build forward motion and maintain consistency. Practitioners understand this and respect those who do it well. Listeners, or "the great unwashed" as you put it, may or may not expressly observe or appreciate it, but they indeed are impacted and can be drawn to those who practice the craft and steer the ship well.

Absent the formatics, radio is nothing but an iPOD or Juke Box. There is a reason for formatics whether you appreciate it or not -- just as a movie has credits, titles and scenes; just as a book has a table of contents, chapters and index; and just as sentences have capital letters and punctuation.

 

[Talk_Dude]

Is that something that really makes a difference to the great unwashed, or is it just an "insider" thing that only radio pros notice?

I'll be kind enough to take your question at face value although my gut impression is that you may be trying to again sour a simple discussion and respect for the people being discussed here who did their jobs extremely well.

Part of the craft of radio is to build forward motion and maintain consistency. Practitioners understand this and respect those who do it well. Listeners, or "the great unwashed" as you put it, may or may not expressly observe or appreciate it, but they indeed are impacted and can be drawn to those who practice the craft and steer the ship well.

Absent the formatics, radio is nothing but an iPOD or Juke Box. There is a reason for formatics whether you appreciate it or not -- just as a movie has credits, titles and scenes; just as a book has a table of contents, chapters and index; and just as sentences have capital letters and punctuation.

I am not suggesting that a radio station's management shouldn't strive to do things as well as they can. At the same time, I challenge anyone to convince me that people will listen to a radio station that plays music they don't like instead of a station that plays music that they do like so long as the station playing music that they don't like hits the top of the hour beep perfectly without using an instrumental.

I've never encountered any enterprise that had enough resources to address every possible variable with all the attention that each one needed. There was always a need to prioritize activities in order to devote maximum attention to the most important, and less attention to those activities that wouldn't negatively impact the bottom line if they were less than perfect. So, in this case, I'm not saying that hitting the top of hour button isn't somewhere on the list of things for station management to worry about. I'm only asking if it belongs at the top of the list, or a little lower down the list.

 

[jmtillery]

I've never encountered any enterprise that had enough resources to address every possible variable with all the attention that each one needed. There was always a need to prioritize activities in order to devote maximum attention to the most important, and less attention to those activities that wouldn't negatively impact the bottom line if they were less than perfect. So, in this case, I'm not saying that hitting the top of hour button isn't somewhere on the list of things for station management to worry about. I'm only asking if it belongs at the top of the list, or a little lower down the list.

Properly and professionally executed programming is the most important element of any radio station. A station can have the best signal and the best sales staff; However, unless that same station also has the programming listeners actually want and adverstisers will actually sponsor, the best signal and the best sales staff means nothing as there is nothing to deliver via that great signal and nothing worthwhile for the sales staff to sell. All these "little" and seemingly insignificant details of programming, executed properly, add up collectively to create an awesome sounding radio station.

 

[Talk_Dude]

I've never encountered any enterprise that had enough resources to address every possible variable with all the attention that each one needed. There was always a need to prioritize activities in order to devote maximum attention to the most important, and less attention to those activities that wouldn't negatively impact the bottom line if they were less than perfect. So, in this case, I'm not saying that hitting the top of hour button isn't somewhere on the list of things for station management to worry about. I'm only asking if it belongs at the top of the list, or a little lower down the list.

Properly and professionally executed programming is the most important element of any radio station. A station can have the best signal and the best sales staff; However, unless that same station also has the programming listeners actually want and adverstisers will actually sponsor, the best signal and the best sales staff means nothing as there is nothing to deliver via that great signal and nothing worthwhile for the sales staff to sell. All these "little" and seemingly insignificant details of programming, executed properly, add up collectively to create an awesome sounding radio station.

Whatever you say. I guess I'm wrong, and people will listen to a station that plays music that they don't like so long as the little and seemingly insignificant details of programming make it an awesome sounding radio station.

Kinda makes worrying about playlists and what music format pick kind of pointless, doesn't it?

 

[DanStrassberg]

at least they didn't pipe in WTIC in Hartford, where the top of the hour beep was actually
a muti-tonal beeping arrangement of Yankee Doodle.

You sure? I thought it was the dit dit dit dah (Morse code V for victory signature) of Beethoven's Fifth.

 

[KeyTimes950]

I've never encountered any enterprise that had enough resources to address every possible variable with all the attention that each one needed. There was always a need to prioritize activities in order to devote maximum attention to the most important, and less attention to those activities that wouldn't negatively impact the bottom line if they were less than perfect. So, in this case, I'm not saying that hitting the top of hour button isn't somewhere on the list of things for station management to worry about. I'm only asking if it belongs at the top of the list, or a little lower down the list.

Properly and professionally executed programming is the most important element of any radio station. A station can have the best signal and the best sales staff; However, unless that same station also has the programming listeners actually want and adverstisers will actually sponsor, the best signal and the best sales staff means nothing as there is nothing to deliver via that great signal and nothing worthwhile for the sales staff to sell. All these "little" and seemingly insignificant details of programming, executed properly, add up collectively to create an awesome sounding radio station.

Whatever you say. I guess I'm wrong, and people will listen to a station that plays music that they don't like so long as the little and seemingly insignificant details of programming make it an awesome sounding radio station.

Kinda makes worrying about playlists and what music format pick kind of pointless, doesn't it?

I think there is truth in all of these comments. I am a fan of contemporary Christian music, but could not listen to WAY-FM when that format aired on WAVL-910. I can listen to it for long stretches on WPKV-98.3 the way K-Love does it.
I appreciate the news-talk format, but prefer being able to hear local news done well, rather than, say, having it piped in from Cleveland with long cuts of a Pittsburgh TV station pumped in for good measure. (Yes, KD-TV stuff airs on KD-AM newscasts, but at least it's one Pittsburgh station supplying a Pittsburgh sibling.)
I'm not a big fan of WHJB-107.1's music, but I appreciate its attempts at community service.
Ergo, as I said, there is truth in each of your comments.

 

[jmtillery]

Whatever you say. I guess I'm wrong, and people will listen to a station that plays music that they don't like so long as the little and seemingly insignificant details of programming make it an awesome sounding radio station.

Kinda makes worrying about playlists and what music format pick kind of pointless, doesn't it?

First of all, no one has said you are wrong as you bring up very good points. Please go back and re-read my original post and you will find that I said "properly executed programming (not properly executed sub-elements alone) is the most important element" as that is the product that a station is selling to its listeners and advertisers. Without it, a station is giving listeners no reason to listen; hence there is nothing to sell to potential advertisers resulting in no station income. Programming, as you are well aware, consist of multiple sub-elements, including music if the station happens to be a music station, that collectively make up the general term "programming". All the sub-elements combined work together to create the completed programming resulting in an overall station sound and image. If one removes any of the sub-elements, in many instances the overall station sound will come across as compromised.

 

[Talk_Dude]

Whatever you say. I guess I'm wrong, and people will listen to a station that plays music that they don't like so long as the little and seemingly insignificant details of programming make it an awesome sounding radio station.

Kinda makes worrying about playlists and what music format pick kind of pointless, doesn't it?

First of all, no one has said you are wrong as you bring up very good points. Please go back and re-read my original post and you will find that I said "properly executed programming (not properly executed sub-elements alone) is the most important element" as that is the product that a station is selling to its listeners and advertisers. Without it, a station is giving listeners no reason to listen; hence there is nothing to sell to potential advertisers resulting in no station income. Programming, as you are well aware, consist of multiple sub-elements, including music if the station happens to be a music station, that collectively make up the general term "programming". All the sub-elements combined work together to create the completed programming resulting in an overall station sound and image. If one removes any of the sub-elements, in many instances the overall station sound will come across as compromised.

Sorry, I read your post in the context of the overall conversation, not as an independent piece of unrelated prose.

In 2010, with almost every station in the Pittsburgh market running its own unique, individual format, I don't see that being "compromised" matters much. No matter how compromised the only (Fill in the format) station in town might be, as long as it is the only station in town with that format, it's going to get all the listeners who want that format.

So, while it is certainly accurate to note that getting any sub-element wrong will make a station's sound come across as compromised, it's also irrelevant.

When I lived in Pittsburgh, and before WRRK went down the tubes and switched to Boob, I would switch between WRRK and WDVE. In that situation, I could see where the "little things" could matter. Now that I live in Atlanta, the closest thing in town to a classic rock station is 97.1 "The River", which is classic hits, the red-headed stepchild of classic rock. It sucks, but for vintage rock from the golden age of album rock, it's the only game in town. Until WKVE came along, one could also say that about WDVE, at least in those areas where one can pick up WKVE.

 

[jmtillery]

Sorry, I read your post in the context of the overall conversation, not as an independent piece of unrelated prose.

So, while it is certainly accurate to note that getting any sub-element wrong will make a station's sound come across as compromised, it's also irrelevant.

We can always agree to disagree; However, my comments were, and still are, very much related to the overall discussion which makes the overall point very much relevant. Opposing perspectives are very much welcomed and embraced for constructive discussion purposes. However, simply because you may disagree with an opinion, view or comment does not invalidate said opinion, view or comment and, instead, render said opinion, view or comment as unrelated nor irrelevant. Each are still very much valid, related and relevant to the overall discussion even though you may completely disagree.

 

[Talk_Dude]

Sorry, I read your post in the context of the overall conversation, not as an independent piece of unrelated prose.

So, while it is certainly accurate to note that getting any sub-element wrong will make a station's sound come across as compromised, it's also irrelevant.

We can always agree to disagree; However, my comments were, and still are, very much related to the overall discussion which makes the overall point very much relevant. Opposing perspectives are very much welcomed and embraced for constructive discussion purposes. However, simply because you may disagree with an opinion, view or comment does not invalidate said opinion, view or comment and, instead, render said opinion, view or comment as unrelated nor irrelevant. Each are still very much valid, related and relevant to the overall discussion even though you may completely disagree.

We do not disagree. I said (in the part you quoted), that what you said is accurate. I did not say that it was irrelevant to the discussion. I only said that it was irrelevant in terms of importance to a radio station in Pittsburgh in 2011 attempting to increase its ratings. Whether a station's sound is, as you put it, "compromised" or not, the only stations that risk a loss of listeners because of such compromise are those who have competitors who are playing the same music format. That pretty much limits the importance of such trivial elements to the Froggies versus Y-108. Otherwise, each music format in town competes based on its unique musical playlist. That's the "meat" of the content that makes the real difference.

Maybe a long, long time ago, when there were multiple Top-40 stations slugging it out with almost identical playlists, the trivial extras mattered a lot. And, to the nostalgic among us who wish it was still the 1970's and that AM radio still mattered, accepting that the past is in the past, and that the "good old days" are over and they aren't coming back is a difficult thing.

As someone who has been eligible for AARP membership for a while now, I understand how hard it is to get over the changes that come with time. There was a time when making good audio tape splices with a razor blade and tape was an important skill. There was a time when knowing how to cue up a vinyl record was an important skill. There was a time when being able to do a rip & read newscast was something every DJ had to master. There was a time when a good announcer had to be able to cup his hand near his ear to hear himself because his headphones stopped working. There was a time when radio repair techs had to know how to test and replace vacuum tubes.

There's nothing wrong with old-timers taking pride in being able to do the things that used to be important when they were younger. And I realize how some oldsters get all defensive when they think someone doesn't show the proper respect to those who have outdated skills that don't matter much anymore. To all of those old timers who still take pride that they could do the things that used to matter, I say, "Congratulations and kudos". You old timers could do a lot of things that really meant something at the time. It's OK to be proud of what you used to be able to do, and to be proud that what you used to do used to mean something and used to be important. But I say to those who can't accept the present, "The past is passed. It's now today. It's not yesterday. So get over it. The rest of us have. You should, too."

 

[jmtillery]

The past is passed. It's now today. It's not yesterday. So get over it. The rest of us have. You should, too."

Thank you for your very detailed and descriptive outline in expressing your thoughts and opinions.

Although I am far from being an "oldtimer", I left programming years ago for the very reasons you have stated, and, instead, entered the ranks of management and eventual station ownership. As for me "getting over" anything, assuming your comment was directed specifically at me or even implied, there is nothing to get over. After selling my last radio combo, I work for no radio station nor company, and I have absoultely no desire to do so although I do consult and broker stations regularly on an independent contractual basis.

Once again, thank you for your comments.