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R.I.P Zune Hd Radio

Despite advances, I doubt the HD chip is efficient or cost effective enough to be worth putting in a cell phone where battery life is even more critical.

Zune's failure has nothing to do with HD, though. I think it would have been a lot more successful if Microsoft hasn't tried to lock it to their own proprietary content system. Apple has the locked-down fascist thing sewn up. Microsoft should have gone for open and broad compatibility.

I seriously wanted a Zune HD at one time, but the lack of user freedom drove me away, just like I wouldn't touch an iPhone or iPod with a ten foot pole. Instead, I keep my fingers crossed that my little 20 GB iRiver jukebox with the great Rockbox open source operating system keeps chugging along for another few years. It's been seriously supplanted by a smartphone that lets me tune the world in via the internet. (Until the contract runs out, when C-Spire will start charging an extra $30/month for streaming, at which point they can kiss my shiny metal ass goodbye.)
 
Well look at how Android took off in the last couple of years as the "open" alternative to Apple. As far as MP3 players go I like my little Sandisk Sansa Clip+. It can have a microSD card (up to 32GB) for added storage instead of being stuck with x GB. It also has a pretty decent FM tuner and is Rockbox compatible.
 
My phone is Android and even though it's ostensibly open source, it's far from ideal. There seems to be a huge problem with applications working across all the hundreds of permutations of the OS that exist to suit each phone model and carrier's whim.

I will acknowledge that the benefit of a closed system is tight quality control of programs and hardware. An iPhone is an iPhone even across the different versions, for the most part and programs approved by the kingmakers at Apple will generally be trouble free across the entire platform.

Not so with Android. Right now I have FIVE apps I am not updating because of all the crash reports and bad reviews in the Market: Facebook, Foursquare, Google Earth, YouTube and CBS' Radio.com. All are getting hammered for having too many problems, too many crashes or just not working at all. And these are all insanely popular apps with 1 million+ downloads to each one. Two of them are even made by Google and yet they're garbage.

I can't help but wonder if HD radio had been open source if it would have turned different than it did. As it is I've got two identical model/brand HD radios that act completely different from one another, with one that won't even tune in certain HD feeds because of some sort of "bug" at the encoder end of things. This is with it being closed, locked down and owned by one entity.
 
Garbage is garbage, whether open-source or proprietary. Would HD work any better if it were open-source? If it wasn't proprietary, would the interference to adjacents and host stations go away? Nope. Voila: doomed to failure, because it's junk. It's like assuming the Yugo would have sold like crazy if it was even CHEAPER.

My app updater on my Droid 2 Global just updated YouTube. Are you getting the latest versions?
Maybe it's just the Motorola phone but I don't seem to have problems with my apps.

We just bought Comrex Access gear for our huge winter schedule of collegiate play-by-play. I'm looking forward to trying out the ACT free app that gives full-duplex high-quality interconnect with the Access interface. Everyone at the station has Droid-class phones, so that really cranks up our remote capabilities.
 
Back OT....

As the Zune is dead, has anyone heard rumors of a new portable/personal sized HD radio? I haven't heard a thing. If anything, it seems that the product pipeline is getting narrower and narrower. This is basically a death sentence for HD radio.

By the way, have been looking at new cars. As we all know, Strubel and Company have touted all of these auto companies that now offer HD Radios. Yeah, but as obscure options unless you buy a top-of-the-line model usually with its most expensive trim level.

Again, I don't see a happy ending for this technology.
 
BRNout said:
By the way, have been looking at new cars. As we all know, Strubel and Company have touted all of these auto companies that now offer HD Radios. Yeah, but as obscure options unless you buy a top-of-the-line model usually with its most expensive trim level.

I've been on a similar shopping expedition. HD seems to be fairly unobtainable around here, at least from the local dealerships. You'd have to special order it and then it usually only comes with the top trim level. If price were no object, I could drive 60 - 125 miles and find cars that offer it as an option, but that isn't very practical. Besides, I'm just not a BMW or Jaguar kind of guy. I like to purchase cars from dealers that are a short towing distance, just in case they "fail to proceed" during the waranty period.

On the other hand, I've looked at several modestly priced cars that had great audio and navigation systems on board. They look like they could keep you amussed for quite some time. I suspect your average car buyer is more interested in the navigation system, ipod dock and a color back up camera than they are in HD.
 
Chuck said:
I suspect your average car buyer is more interested in the navigation system, ipod dock and a color back up camera than they are in HD.

I also suspect your average car buyer would be more interested in a hand crank than in an HD radio.
 
Savage said:
My app updater on my Droid 2 Global just updated YouTube. Are you getting the latest versions?
Maybe it's just the Motorola phone but I don't seem to have problems with my apps.

No, I do manual updates only and always read the reviews of software updates in the market before I download anything. I've been burned by Facebook and others who rolled out bad software before.

Read the reviews for YouTube. Certain handsets are having problems for some reason. Droid X and Galaxy phones get mentioned a lot.
 
Chuck said:
On the other hand, I've looked at several modestly priced cars that had great audio and navigation systems on board. They look like they could keep you amussed for quite some time. I suspect your average car buyer is more interested in the navigation system, ipod dock and a color back up camera than they are in HD.

Since we're already off the rails (the death of Zune HD is old and not unexpected news anyway) I should note that what the common man wants sure frustrates me. In car nav systems are among the worst and poorest quality available, as far as map accuracy goes.

Some dealers update maps for free but most charge, as do the portable makers like Garmin and Tomtom. Dunno how it is in m/y 2012 but there are a lot of cars out there that simply CAN'T be updated for reason or another. I don't want all that dash real estate taken up by something that is so limited in usefulness. Especially when Google Maps or Bing Maps on my phone are both way more accurate usually. The the iPod cable, useful only to the 40% who own Apple devices. The rest of us are SOL.

Frankly, I'd want HD radio (with an OFF switch) as a standard feature over those two any day. Or better yet, Bluetooth as standard so I can just play my music wireless from my phone.
 
Zach said:
Chuck said:
On the other hand, I've looked at several modestly priced cars that had great audio and navigation systems on board. They look like they could keep you amussed for quite some time. I suspect your average car buyer is more interested in the navigation system, ipod dock and a color back up camera than they are in HD.

Since we're already off the rails (the death of Zune HD is old and not unexpected news anyway) I should note that what the common man wants sure frustrates me.

The fact that HD radio has been a complete bust shows that common man is not always wrong.
 
Windows Phone is an operating system, not an actual phone. The fact that HD Radio is not included in phones with Windows is irrelevant.
 
The Zune had very little chance of survival anyway. Apple was way too far ahead of them, and really, Windows just doesn't have much 'sex' appeal.

Besides, sales of digital media players, including iPod, are dropping. They could someday be totally obsolete. When a typical smartphone (from Apple, Android, etc.) does virtually everything an iPod or whatever does, who needs the extra device? My Android phone works phenomenally well playing portable files.
 
OK, fair enough - but then that hardly reflects positively on the hype over the Zune from the pro-HD gaggle. One of the most telling factors is the yawning gaposis between the perennially absurd claims made for HD and reality, be it boasts about various devices, station conversions, hell-no-there's-no-interference, etc., etc.

Hey, wait - do I hear the sound of looming discontinuance of the Insignia portable in BB-land? "Reliable sources" note that it's been on backorder since August, and a local BB has a handful of apparent returns - and that's it.
 
FightingIrish said:
Besides, sales of digital media players, including iPod, are dropping. They could someday be totally obsolete. When a typical smartphone (from Apple, Android, etc.) does virtually everything an iPod or whatever does, who needs the extra device? My Android phone works phenomenally well playing portable files.

Shoot, I WISH my phone that does everything could at least do SOMETHING well! It plays all kinds of formats, but it doesn't work 1/10th as well as my old mp3 player, nor does it sound quite as good. FLAC and m4a files (90% of my collection) are jerky and skippy on the phone, but play fine on the dedicated music player.

The problem with our trend towards everything migrating to the phone platform is that these devices do everything but none of it well.

The iPhone is considered the premiere multitasking device on sale today. Yet it, like other smartphones, is notorious for having a poorer cellular transceiver than your run of the mill freebie feature phone. The music player has tons of bells and whistles but is a second-rate (at best) choice for those seeking audio fidelity or the easy management of thousands of individual songs not tied to albums. Android's stock player is even worse, and my personal experience is that, even with the EQ fiddled-to-the-max it barely eeks out 70's era transistor radio quality through the headphone jack. The stock browser and pretty much every one in the market(s) are slow, clunky and never seem to render full websites correctly. The camera on the iPhone is nice (especially the new one on the 4S) but trying to take a quality photo holding something that's 1/8" thick and 5" long is pretty hard unless you're super-dexterous. There's also no optical zoom or high quality lenses on most "smart" phones. None of the platforms are immune from viruses, trojans or just the effects of poor coding. Which is to be expected (WHY!??) on modern devices but when it may cause you to lose all your data or be unable to call 9-1-1, it can be a real headache. And don't even get me started on all the stuff that exists "in the cloud" now, which is great until your internet / 3G connection goes out. Mine's out at home at least once a day (and this is the most reliable internet I've ever had in my life) and the 3G here is as spotty as a dalmatian. Once it's out, you lose access to everything.

True, having all-in-one in the palm of your hand is awesome, but aside from hands-free talking navigation I'm really not seeing a whole lot that this phone does that my ~2005 SonyEricsson Walkman phone couldn't do almost as well. Its music player wasn't as polished but the sound quality and EQ were actually much better. The radio does RDS and AF and is actually not a joke despite being wedged into a device the size of two chunky Kit Kat bars. It could make phone calls without crashing and took good pictures, even if they were only 2 MP. And because it had heft and a quality focusing mechanism, photos were rarely blurry and white balance rivaled the new iPhone 4S's promo photos.

And sure it was tiny and could only load one Java program at a time, but even back then it had 16 GB on board via add-on card, which held tons of programs and music. The 4x3 phone keypad was just right for lightning fast text messaging, and I can still bang out a novel on it faster than Swype or virtual keyboards on flat screen devices, or phones with actual QWERTY keyboards! And it could do all this all day on one charge. I have to religiously charge my Android phone daily or I'll be stranded. I've actually gone from 100% battery at noon to 15% battery by 9 pm while really using it to its full potential.

As much as I like my little tricorder, I do miss the days when the phone made phone calls and did it well
When the radio tuned in radio stations but not streams or satellite feeds and did it well
When the music player played music in high quality and left videos and surfing to the PC and did it well
When the camera took pictures because that is what it was meant to do, and it did it well

Now here's where I make it about radio: HD has been a failure from the standpoint of "it just works", cuz it don't. Like a smartphone, it tries to add value to an existing device (radio) but it just isn't competent at the job. Sort of like the hundred and nineteen apps on my phone right now. They all purport to make the device more useful but most of them fall short in some way or another. They crash, or have bad functionality or just are poorly designed. HD is all of those things to radio.

Unfortunately, as the future becomes streaming audio, it appears the radio companies are going down the same wrongheaded path. CBS Interactive's "Radio.com" player is the only way to stream CBS stations on the Android platform. The newest version is so buggy it's gotten literally thousands of bad reviews in the Android Market. Have they fixed it? "Oh hell no," as little Ryan Seacrest is known to say. You can listen to their broken HD feeds or listen to their broken streams on your phone. (And if you try the Yahoo! Radio app, it's also made my CBS and also has the same problems. Finally there's Tunein Radio, which is awesome but CBS pulled their feeds from them with the relaunch of Radio.com's app.)

And that's another gripe. Radio tried to balkanize the airwaves with HD radio and it didn't work. But now they're finding better luck on the mobile platforms. This leads to problems, though. Some apps work on Android and iPhone but not Blackberry or feature phones. Some only work on iPhones and some stations don't allow mobile streaming at all! The idea of equal access to anyone with a "streaming device" is still a pipe dream. Moreso for video streaming than audio, but it's still a headache.

This is progress?
 
Zach said:
FightingIrish said:
Besides, sales of digital media players, including iPod, are dropping. They could someday be totally obsolete. When a typical smartphone (from Apple, Android, etc.) does virtually everything an iPod or whatever does, who needs the extra device? My Android phone works phenomenally well playing portable files.

Shoot, I WISH my phone that does everything could at least do SOMETHING well! It plays all kinds of formats, but it doesn't work 1/10th as well as my old mp3 player, nor does it sound quite as good. FLAC and m4a files (90% of my collection) are jerky and skippy on the phone, but play fine on the dedicated music player.

The problem with our trend towards everything migrating to the phone platform is that these devices do everything but none of it well.

The iPhone is considered the premiere multitasking device on sale today. Yet it, like other smartphones, is notorious for having a poorer cellular transceiver than your run of the mill freebie feature phone. The music player has tons of bells and whistles but is a second-rate (at best) choice for those seeking audio fidelity or the easy management of thousands of individual songs not tied to albums. Android's stock player is even worse, and my personal experience is that, even with the EQ fiddled-to-the-max it barely eeks out 70's era transistor radio quality through the headphone jack. The stock browser and pretty much every one in the market(s) are slow, clunky and never seem to render full websites correctly. The camera on the iPhone is nice (especially the new one on the 4S) but trying to take a quality photo holding something that's 1/8" thick and 5" long is pretty hard unless you're super-dexterous. There's also no optical zoom or high quality lenses on most "smart" phones. None of the platforms are immune from viruses, trojans or just the effects of poor coding. Which is to be expected (WHY!??) on modern devices but when it may cause you to lose all your data or be unable to call 9-1-1, it can be a real headache. And don't even get me started on all the stuff that exists "in the cloud" now, which is great until your internet / 3G connection goes out. Mine's out at home at least once a day (and this is the most reliable internet I've ever had in my life) and the 3G here is as spotty as a dalmatian. Once it's out, you lose access to everything.

True, having all-in-one in the palm of your hand is awesome, but aside from hands-free talking navigation I'm really not seeing a whole lot that this phone does that my ~2005 SonyEricsson Walkman phone couldn't do almost as well. Its music player wasn't as polished but the sound quality and EQ were actually much better. The radio does RDS and AF and is actually not a joke despite being wedged into a device the size of two chunky Kit Kat bars. It could make phone calls without crashing and took good pictures, even if they were only 2 MP. And because it had heft and a quality focusing mechanism, photos were rarely blurry and white balance rivaled the new iPhone 4S's promo photos.

And sure it was tiny and could only load one Java program at a time, but even back then it had 16 GB on board via add-on card, which held tons of programs and music. The 4x3 phone keypad was just right for lightning fast text messaging, and I can still bang out a novel on it faster than Swype or virtual keyboards on flat screen devices, or phones with actual QWERTY keyboards! And it could do all this all day on one charge. I have to religiously charge my Android phone daily or I'll be stranded. I've actually gone from 100% battery at noon to 15% battery by 9 pm while really using it to its full potential.

As much as I like my little tricorder, I do miss the days when the phone made phone calls and did it well
When the radio tuned in radio stations but not streams or satellite feeds and did it well
When the music player played music in high quality and left videos and surfing to the PC and did it well
When the camera took pictures because that is what it was meant to do, and it did it well

Now here's where I make it about radio: HD has been a failure from the standpoint of "it just works", cuz it don't. Like a smartphone, it tries to add value to an existing device (radio) but it just isn't competent at the job. Sort of like the hundred and nineteen apps on my phone right now. They all purport to make the device more useful but most of them fall short in some way or another. They crash, or have bad functionality or just are poorly designed. HD is all of those things to radio.

Unfortunately, as the future becomes streaming audio, it appears the radio companies are going down the same wrongheaded path. CBS Interactive's "Radio.com" player is the only way to stream CBS stations on the Android platform. The newest version is so buggy it's gotten literally thousands of bad reviews in the Android Market. Have they fixed it? "Oh hell no," as little Ryan Seacrest is known to say. You can listen to their broken HD feeds or listen to their broken streams on your phone. (And if you try the Yahoo! Radio app, it's also made my CBS and also has the same problems. Finally there's Tunein Radio, which is awesome but CBS pulled their feeds from them with the relaunch of Radio.com's app.)

And that's another gripe. Radio tried to balkanize the airwaves with HD radio and it didn't work. But now they're finding better luck on the mobile platforms. This leads to problems, though. Some apps work on Android and iPhone but not Blackberry or feature phones. Some only work on iPhones and some stations don't allow mobile streaming at all! The idea of equal access to anyone with a "streaming device" is still a pipe dream. Moreso for video streaming than audio, but it's still a headache.

This is progress?

Smartphones are essentially today's electronic Swiss army knives. I use my Android for just about everything. I use a third party app (PowerAmp) for music and am very pleased with the results. Sound quality is just as good as I can get out of my PC, and I've used it with headphones, ear buds and through my car stereo. And I encoded almost everything for my phone in M4A (and most media player apps will handle just about any commonly used codec, including FLAC). I don't have any FLAC files on my phone, but the stock player even handles M4A just fine.

I also listen to a lot of streaming audio. Pandora works very well. The TuneIn app is a blast, as long as you don't try to listen to high bitrate streams over 3G (I've found some AAC+ streams under 64K that work well and sound very good with little buffering). CBS' Radio.com is a terrible, bug-ridden app with great content, while Clear Channel's IHeartRadio is a great, stable app with mediocre content. But I am being patient. Technology takes time to get right. It always has, always will. Thing is, everyone expects new technologies to explode like Beatlemania. Speaking as someone who wrote many term papers on crappy Apple II computers back in the day, I can say that it just doesn't work that way. It takes time to get this stuff right. In some cases, it may never happen (like in HD Radio, which could have done better if Ibiquity hadn't gotten greedy and made a complete disaster out of it). But as of this moment, we're still in the infancy as far as the potential of smartphones go.
 
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