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R&R Summit

neutral_observer:

I think he finally dropped the topic.

Thanks for your thoughts and threads and keeping it professional. :)

Nice to know a colleague is in the corner with you.

Love snow at Christmas...but I hear Nashville usually doesn't get any...so, I'll just have to remember those days up north.

Happy Christmas!

e<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>
 
Re: debate

> Again you also seem to know everything.


No, but we do clearly know more than you do. Why do you continue so vehemently down
the road of your false accusations when you could choose to see this as and take
advantage of a great learning opportunity?



> You are the only ones on this discussion
> board(by your comments) that think they have that knowledge
> and ability , the rest of us by your terms are not "real
> radio People".


Absolute nonsense...but you'll still be wrong no matter how many times you try
lines like that.
 
Re: Topic

> I will comment that you think you own this discussion board...

No, she doesn't...she's just not going to let you get away with posting
something so outrageous and egregiously wrong here on a board populated mostly
by amateurs, fans, and other civillians who might go away thinking what you said
is true.


> ...and if a subject doesn't "please" you or you can't rule it,
> you whine and slam others.

No, she doesn't...but what you're saying there is interesting -- you believe
that having false and foolish statements utterly disproven equals "whining" and
"slamming."

She's right....you're telling us a lot about you and your
character in this.



> You think you know me, you have put me down as not being a
> "real radio Person",[sic]....

I'm pretty sure I was the one who said that.



> ...programmer, knowledgable in radio. the list goes on.

Yes...because it's obvious.

I don't say what I'm about to say to "slam" you; I say it to help you gain an
accurate perspective of where your level of knowledge is:

If you have, indeed, spent twenty years in the business, you need to understand
that you've apparently unknowingly repeated the first year twenty times. You
haven't advanced. You don't understand the science and the art. You don't
understand even the most basic principles of marketing by which any offering in
a free market must act.

If you'd actually like to start learning and growing, just say so...I'm sure
both E and I would be willing to help by suggesting resources. Otherwise,
please stop making charges that you cannot back by evidence or argument, and
please stop insisting that your first-grade-like ideas and observations are the
reality.




> You say I also see color because I notice
> music that is not being played. I'm laughing real hard here.

No, I keep pointing it out because you claimed you don't even see it when, in
fact, you can't seem to stop seeing it everywhere in everything!



> Honesty upsets you.

Not at all...I flat out embrace it!



> you obviously have no answers so in turn you slam me.

You obviously have no evidence or argument to back your charges, so, in turn,
you resort to the common internet message board technique of changing the
subject to a supposed personal attack in the midst of a supposed debate. It's
very sad that we're having to see that on this board.



> if you like it that way then fine, what's the big deal. Just say you like
> the figures and you could care less.

The "figures" are entirely neutral and largely irrelevant...you're the
one inventing and attaching meaning to them!

Once again:

There is no problem unless listeners say there is, and, by listening in record
numbers and amounts, listeners really don't appear to be saying that.
There is no forcing people to change their preferences.
There is no top-down "solution" to the "problem" you say you see.
 
Re: Topic

> the RadioFan wrote:
> "By the way, you never answered whatzthat question: Do you
> play any Christian artists that is not of the same race as
> yours?"
>
> I did answer that question. I've never stopped to count the
> races. It's an absurd question to ask...one that offers no
> value, one that presumes it matters what race someone is in
> order to get airplay. Ridiculous to program based on "skin
> color". Ridiculous to look for it, promote it, or analyze
> it. Ridiculous and racist to do so.
>
In other words, you refuse to answer the question.

> "Also, explain why the Billboard CCM charts contain a
> variety of music not prevalent on the most CCM stations."
>
>
> Please be specific.
>
Look through the latest CCM chart in Billboard magazine.
 
Re: Topic

> > I read in the CCM magazine articles,...
>
> ...CCM Magazine being based in Nashville, physically and
> personally much closer
> to the labels than to any station's audience.
>
>

So what! BIG DEAL! It still doesn't change the issues mentioned in some of the articles.

> > I I hear on the radio...
>
> I thought you didn't hear on the radio!
>
What? I never said that I did't listen to Christian music. Although, I did mention that I am plan to stop listening to it soon, like maybe now.
> > Honestly, I can care less what Christian music radio
> plays. If they
> > want to stay locked up in their corner that's find with
> me.
>
> Ratings for the format are higher than they've ever been!
> It's getting really
> hard to say it's "locked up in some corner."
>
Several stations in this format are still ranked at the bottom, including the one in my hometown. I don't think any Christian music station are major players in their market. It is sad if Christian music programmers are content with their current numbers.
>
> > Also, explain why the Billboard CCM charts contain a
> variety
> > of music not prevalent on the most CCM stations.
>
> What Billboard CCM chart? You'll have to be more specific!
> Also, when you
> respond, please include the methodology the chart you choose
> uses.
>
I am talking about the CCM chart that is published bi-weekly in Billboard magazine. What is the deal with all these stupid questions?
 
Re: Topic

> Because, while the music may be nicely diverse, 'NAZ and
> KAFC are NOT successful by all the standards radio defines
> success by. They have awful ratings, and do not generate
> significant income.
>
> Until a Christian CHR comes along with a great mix of music
> AND the results to back it up, don't expect much to change.
>
I know KAFC has been above 3 in the past, although I understand that their ratings took a big nosedive recently-although ironically, KAFC recenlty announced that it is cutting back the rhythmic music on its playlist down to about 20%.

WNAZ needs a better signal. It's also in one of only two markets where there are two Christian CHRs (the other being Valdosta).<P ID="signature">______________
chargeradioweb.jpg
</P>
 
Re: neutral_observer:

> I think he finally dropped the topic.

What??! Darn! There are many posts I haven't even read yet! :)



> Thanks for your thoughts and threads and keeping it
> professional. :)

Thanks, but I did go pretty hard -- almost embarassingly -- there for a while.
I never went for the face, but I did lay some pretty heavy body blows in there.
I feel a little bad...a little "unprofessional," if you will. In real life, I
would have challenged him a couple of times and then excused myself in favor of
another conversation, but, here, where you can't tell who might be "overhearing"
the conversation, I felt the need to keep it up.


> Love snow at Christmas...but I hear Nashville usually
> doesn't get any...so, I'll just have to remember those days
> up north.


I'm now hearing it's all going to go away before Christmas, leaving it cloudy,
dark, and rainy. Oh, well.


> Happy Christmas!


No promises, but I'll give it a shot!

Merry Christmas to you.....
 
Re: Topic

> > > I read in the CCM magazine articles,...
> >
> > ...CCM Magazine being based in Nashville, physically and
> > personally much closer
> > to the labels than to any station's audience.
> >
> >
>
> So what! BIG DEAL! It still doesn't change the issues
> mentioned in some of the articles.


Hmmmm....how to explain this?

Nashville is kinda like DC. The people in it are kinda like the people in DC.
It's a "company" town like DC, but it's smaller. Everybody's gotta scratch each
other's backs if they're gonna be and stay "in."

Now, go back and read it again....make sense?




> > > I I hear on the radio...
> >
> > I thought you didn't hear on the radio!
> >
> What? I never said that I did't listen to Christian music.
> Although, I did mention that I am plan to stop listening to
> it soon, like maybe now.


I don't want you or anyone to leave...just to better understand.



> I don't think any Christian music station are major players
> in their market.


:) You'll want to look harder...great discoveries await! And read my post in
the "Austin" thread.



> It is sad if Christian music programmers are content with
> their current numbers.


Many have plenty to be content about, but I doubt that they are. At least, I
hope they aren't!




> > > Also, explain why the Billboard CCM charts contain a
> > variety
> > > of music not prevalent on the most CCM stations.
> >
> > What Billboard CCM chart? You'll have to be more
> specific!
> > Also, when you
> > respond, please include the methodology the chart you
> choose
> > uses.
> >
> I am talking about the CCM chart that is published bi-weekly
> in Billboard magazine. What is the deal with all these
> stupid questions?


I haven't looked at a full Billboard magazine in years. Seriously, help me out
(you sound like you have one handy) -- tell me which chart, what its methodology
is, and what your exact question is.
 
Re: Topic

the RadioFan wrote:
"By the way, you never answered whatzthat question: Do you play any Christian artists that is not of the same race as yours?"

radioelizabeth wrote:
"I did answer that question. I've never stopped to count the races. It's an absurd question to ask...one that offers no value, one that presumes it matters what race someone is in order to get airplay. Ridiculous to program based on "skin color". Ridiculous to look for it, promote it, or analyze it. Ridiculous and racist to do so."


The RadioFan wrote:
"In other words, you refuse to answer the question."

Exactly. To answer assumes the question has merit.


The RadioFan wrote:
"Look through the latest CCM chart in Billboard magazine."

Charts are not the only indicator of airplay. Many ACs and other formats don't even report, and either way...charts would still not be able to determine if a song was passed or added on the premise you imply- "skin color".

<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>
 
Re: Topic

"I haven't looked at a full Billboard magazine in years. "

You are kidding of course. Stations (us being one of them) are monitored by BDS and they give their data to Billboard, but then you are a "real radio person".
See Radio Fan if they don't agree they go to stupid.
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by whatzthat on 12/22/05 04:19 AM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: whatzthat

I thought you left?<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>
 
Re: Radio Fan

Hey don't stop listening to Christian music just because of human frailty. I'm speaking of this silly dispute. Keep listening and plugging in to God. Thanks for your comments!!! They are important!
 
Re: Topic

> "I haven't looked at a full Billboard magazine in years. "
>
> You are kidding of course.

No, not a bit.



> Stations (us being one of them)
> are monitored by BDS and they give their data to Billboard,
> but then you are a "real radio person".
> See Radio Fan if they don't agree they go to stupid.

I'm not stupid; I'm attentive to detail and a stickler for it.

He said "Billboard magazine." There's "Billboard Magazine," and then there's
"Billboard Monitor"...in several formats, of course. He didn't really specify
which one. What I said is true -- I haven't looked at a full Billboard magazine
in years.
 
Re: Topic

Overall, I disagree with you and you disagree with me. I don't have time to waste by resume arguing on this issue. You, along with your colleagues in the Christian music industry, can continue to program these stations in the way you desire. However, it will very difficult for me to continue listening to Christian music stations, at least most of them. I only see signs of division. Despite all you statements, I still don't understand how a national CCM broadcaster can air the music of rapper KJ52 in heavy rotation but not artists like Grits. I don't understand how most Christian ACs can play Zoegirl in heavy rotation and leave out Virtue. I don't understand how a local Urban Gospel can stop the music for a few hours on the weekend to air an one-hour show hosted by a Black Muslim who constantly makes racial statements targeting the white race. Yet, I never hear a white Christian artist or preacher on this same station. I don't understand how a black woman announcer at an Urban Gospel can identify the black artists on a track and leave out the white artists. Since Salem radio claims to be a Christian-based organization, I don't understand how this company allowed Bill Bennett make the statement about aborting black babies. Although, he said that would be immoral, it was still in his mind and he spoke it over the airwaves.
Now, I know you will justify all these examples. However, I see this type of broadcasting only creating divisions among the races. For these and other reasons, it will be very difficult for me to continue to listen and support Christian radio. There are other stations to choose and other ways to listen to great music.
 
Re: Topic

> Radio Fan being specific to "E" means agreeing with her.


Why are people like you on the internet always obsessed with "agree?"

Do you not understand that we're talking about things that can be shown to be true
or false? Right or wrong? This isn't about opinion.

You're wrong.
What you say is false.
"Agreeing" or "disagreeing" is irrelevant.
 
Re: Topic

> I'm not stupid; I'm attentive to detail and a stickler for
> it.
Well then lets get it right. There's Billboard Radio Monitor & Billboard.com both come from Billboard magazine (music data supplied by BDS, done by Nielsen). So in actuality, if you read one of them or go online to Billboard.com you are reading part of the magazine. He looked at the music charts probably online, which means he looked at part of the magazine. I doubt any of us have read a full magazine. Very expensive magazine.....after paying for R&R and you have to subscribe when you report(we do), along with paying for CRW (reporting there too), Billboard is fine to look at free online:). R&R and CRW vary quite often on their charts. I like both of them, R&R is great though, everyone I've dealt with has been top notch.
 
Re: Examples

The RadioFan wrote:
"I still don't understand how a national CCM broadcaster can air the music of rapper KJ52 in heavy rotation but not artists like Grits. I don't understand how most Christian ACs can play Zoegirl in heavy rotation and leave out Virtue."

I'm sure there are a variety of factors regarding all those songs. If it's race, it's wrong...but no one has been able to site evidence of that on these threads.


"I don't understand how a local Urban Gospel can stop the music for a few hours on the weekend to air an one-hour show hosted by a Black Muslim who constantly makes racial statements targeting the white race."

Hmm... no idea about which station, or the program but if that happens, that does seem a bit off.

"I don't understand how a black woman announcer at an Urban Gospel can identify the black artists on a track and leave out the white artists."

Again, not familiar with the station or announcer, but if true, I would say that announcer would benefit from some coaching and airchecks.


"Since Salem radio claims to be a Christian-based organization, I don't understand how this company allowed Bill Bennett make the statement about aborting black babies."

Well...that thread was a while back...and on other boards as well. And I think this is a rather broad statement of the specifics.


"However, I see this type of broadcasting only creating divisions among the races. "

I would say, some of the above examples seem to be showing quite a division. As does the any belief that states our gifts, talents, and abilities ought to be rewarded or denied based on the color of our skin.
<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>
 
Re: Topic

> Overall, I disagree with you and you disagree with me.

Irrelevant. There is true and false and right and wrong here...these are not
matters of opinion.



> You, along with your colleagues in the Christian music
> industry,...

We're not in the music industry; we're in the radio industry. HUGE difference!

Your not understanding that might explain your overall lack of understanding of
the topic.



> ...can continue to program these stations in the way
> you desire.

No...we can continue to program these stations in the way the listeners desire!



> Despite all
> you statements, I still don't understand how a national CCM
> broadcaster can air the music of rapper KJ52 in heavy
> rotation but not artists like Grits. I don't understand how
> most Christian ACs can play Zoegirl in heavy rotation and
> leave out Virtue.

Interesting that you have the same syntax patterns, obsession with "agreeing,"
and favorite artists as the "other" guy....



> I don't understand how a local Urban
> Gospel can stop the music for a few hours on the weekend to
> air an one-hour show hosted by a Black Muslim who constantly
> makes racial statements targeting the white race.

"Urban Gospel," as you call it, is really the black-targeted equivalent of
"Bright AC."



> Since Salem radio claims to
> be a Christian-based organization, I don't understand how
> this company allowed Bill Bennett make the statement about
> aborting black babies.

They didn't "allow" it...it's not as if talk shows are scripted such that they
can be vetted before broadcast.



> Although, he said that would be
> immoral, it was still in his mind and he spoke it over the
> airwaves.

Are you sure you understood the context of the discussion?



> Now, I know you will justify all these examples. However, I
> see this type of broadcasting only creating divisions among
> the races. For these and other reasons, it will be very
> difficult for me to continue to listen and support Christian
> radio.

Nooo...you see things that, for some reason you haven't told us, you choose
to interpret as and believe are signs of division. Why are you
wanting to do that? Why do you not find the same fault with secular stations?
Why do you not head over to other format boards and take them to task? Go to
the country board and tell them they all need to play lots of rap for the sake
of unity, and then go to the urban board and tell them they need to play lots of
country to avoid being divisive racists. Do the same on the smooth jazz and
alternative boards...and the oldies and rhythmic boards. Report back!
 
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