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Radical Idea For Infinity Oldies

H

HHH

OK, Infinity got tons of free publicity for 101.1 going Jack. Lots of sampling, which is what they want. Whether or not people actually like it and stay is a different conversation...

BUT....

The smartest thing they could do right now is to move the WCBS-FM call letters to 102.7 and start up oldies again with a big "you demanded it" campaign. Possibly with a "here are the great adverizers who are supporting oldies" positioner.

101.1 "Jack" becomes the coveted WNEW (which is never used anyway).
 
> OK, Infinity got tons of free publicity for 101.1 going
> Jack. Lots of sampling, which is what they want. Whether
> or not people actually like it and stay is a different
> conversation...
>
> BUT....
>
> The smartest thing they could do right now is to move the
> WCBS-FM call letters to 102.7 and start up oldies again with
> a big "you demanded it" campaign. Possibly with a "here are
> the great adverizers who are supporting oldies" positioner.
>
> 101.1 "Jack" becomes the coveted WNEW (which is never used
> anyway).
>


It would be great if they did it. But it's not gonna happen. They still think Mix can beat KTU. Besides, CBS will be going to the HD channel.
 
WNEW calls

I always thought WNEW were coveted calls, but they've been completely neglected by the station for a long time. What's wrong here? Or am I the only person who thinks the WNEW calls are at all important or significant?
>
> It would be great if they did it. But it's not gonna happen.
> They still think Mix can beat KTU. Besides, CBS will be
> going to the HD channel.
>
 
Re: WNEW calls

> I always thought WNEW were coveted calls, but they've been
> completely neglected by the station for a long time. What's
> wrong here? Or am I the only person who thinks the WNEW
> calls are at all important or significant?
> >
> > It would be great if they did it. But it's not gonna
> happen.
> > They still think Mix can beat KTU. Besides, CBS will be
> > going to the HD channel.
> >
>

young people only know it as Blink, Mix etc... and ignore the WNEW calls
 
Ratings Don't Matter

Only ad billings matter. Radio is a business, not a popularity contest. CBS-FM did not flip because they weren't getting respectable numbers. They flipped because advertisers prefer younger demographic segments.

CBS would be about as likely to keep the WNEW call letters and bring back the old WNEW format on 102.7

> OK, Infinity got tons of free publicity for 101.1 going
> Jack. Lots of sampling, which is what they want. Whether
> or not people actually like it and stay is a different
> conversation...
>
> BUT....
>
> The smartest thing they could do right now is to move the
> WCBS-FM call letters to 102.7 and start up oldies again with
> a big "you demanded it" campaign. Possibly with a "here are
> the great adverizers who are supporting oldies" positioner.
>
> 101.1 "Jack" becomes the coveted WNEW (which is never used
> anyway).
>
 
Re: WNEW calls

> > I always thought WNEW were coveted calls, but they've been
>
> > completely neglected by the station for a long time.
> What's
> > wrong here? Or am I the only person who thinks the WNEW
> > calls are at all important or significant?
> > >
> > > It would be great if they did it. But it's not gonna
> > happen.
> > > They still think Mix can beat KTU. Besides, CBS will be
> > > going to the HD channel.
> > >
> >
>
> young people only know it as Blink, Mix etc... and ignore
> the WNEW calls
>
and the amazing thing is that still they have no listeners. . .
 
Re: Ratings Don't Matter-YES THEY DO

> Only ad billings matter. Radio is a business, not a
> popularity contest. CBS-FM did not flip because they
> weren't getting respectable numbers. They flipped because
> advertisers prefer younger demographic segments.
>

No, ratings do matter...has everything to do with billing on CBS-FM.

CBS-FM was not getting respectable numbers in the demos that matter to advertisers. If they get the ratings in the right demos, the billing will follow.-
 
it's ratings and revenue

That is only partially true. CBS-FM was a HUGE biller, yet felt that like sticking with the higher-demo format that number would begin to erode more.

If "only ad billings matter", CBS-FM would still be playing Oldies. And, ratings-wise, they were top ten.

(so, yes, I know-- why the HECK did they flip?)



> Only ad billings matter. Radio is a business, not a
> popularity contest. CBS-FM did not flip because they
> weren't getting respectable numbers. They flipped because
> advertisers prefer younger demographic segments.
> CBS would be about as likely to keep the WNEW call letters
> and bring back the old WNEW format on 102.7
>
> > OK, Infinity got tons of free publicity for 101.1 going
> > Jack. Lots of sampling, which is what they want. Whether
>
> > or not people actually like it and stay is a different
> > conversation...
> >
> > BUT....
> >
> > The smartest thing they could do right now is to move the
> > WCBS-FM call letters to 102.7 and start up oldies again
> with
> > a big "you demanded it" campaign. Possibly with a "here
> are
> > the great adverizers who are supporting oldies"
> positioner.
> >
> > 101.1 "Jack" becomes the coveted WNEW (which is never used
>
> > anyway).
> >
>
 
Re: it's ratings and revenue

> That is only partially true. CBS-FM was a HUGE biller, yet
> felt that like sticking with the higher-demo format that
> number would begin to erode more.
>
> If "only ad billings matter", CBS-FM would still be playing
> Oldies. And, ratings-wise, they were top ten.
>

However...

CBS FM was off over 15% in billing in the last 6 years, while the market was up about that amount. So they are truly down nearly 40% vs. the market and thier own history!
 
Re: WNEW calls

> > > I always thought WNEW were coveted calls, but they've
> been
> >
> > > completely neglected by the station for a long time.
> > What's
> > > wrong here? Or am I the only person who thinks the WNEW
>
> > > calls are at all important or significant?
> > > >
> > > > It would be great if they did it. But it's not gonna
> > > happen.
> > > > They still think Mix can beat KTU. Besides, CBS will
> be
> > > > going to the HD channel.
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > young people only know it as Blink, Mix etc... and ignore
> > the WNEW calls
> >
> and the amazing thing is that still they have no listeners.
> . .
>
how can they not have listeners? they still have people calling request and contests. that still means they have listeners, if you don't like the format dosent mean that other people don't like it<P ID="signature">______________
xxnate_doggxx (at) myway (dot) com
</P>
 
Re: WNEW calls

> how can they not have listeners? they still have people
> calling request and contests. that still means they have
> listeners, if you don't like the format dosent mean that
> other people don't like it
>

Even horrible stations have some listeners they just don't have the numbers of listeners they need in NYC to stay around long
 
Re: WNEW calls

Don't make assumptions. I know of a station and at the MOMENT that they changed formats they started playing songs with a promo between every third record that included a glowing report from a "listener" about how this station is what he/she has been waiting for and about how it is so wonderful that the station arrived....

After five minutes with the format the station could not get more than a few listeners and they could not get the calls or the processing to put the calls into a promotional message for at least a day. The "listeners" were hired either to work for the station or to be there for the "interview." It was all staged, but hey, radio is entertainment so it is fine with me. I have airchecks of the station, so it is not my imagination, and I recorded the airchecks.

So WNEW-FM may not have a SINGLE listener? No, I am sure they have some listeners, but even a station that played Chinese funeral dirges would have a few listeners, especially in New York.


> how can they not have listeners? they still have people
> calling request and contests. that still means they have
> listeners, if you don't like the format dosent mean that
> other people don't like it
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
 
Re: Ratings Don't Matter-YES THEY DO

> > Only ad billings matter. Radio is a business, not a
> > popularity contest. CBS-FM did not flip because they
> > weren't getting respectable numbers. They flipped because
>
> > advertisers prefer younger demographic segments.
> >
>
> No, ratings do matter...has everything to do with billing on
> CBS-FM.
>
> CBS-FM was not getting respectable numbers in the demos that
> matter to advertisers. If they get the ratings in the right
> demos, the billing will follow.-
>

They were in the Top 10 in the number one market! How can advertisers not like that? Plus, ratings don't have much to do with it. You are wrong on that. CBS FM was doing very well in ratings. It is mostly about the money.<P ID="signature">______________
Kevin</P>
 
Ratings Question

> > how can they not have listeners? they still have people
> > calling request and contests. that still means they have
> > listeners, if you don't like the format dosent mean that
> > other people don't like it
> >
>
> Even horrible stations have some listeners they just don't
> have the numbers of listeners they need in NYC to stay
> around long
>

Question. How do they really figure out the ratings? Interviews with real listeners or something?<P ID="signature">______________
Kevin</P>
 
Re: WNEW calls

> > > > I always thought WNEW were coveted calls, but they've
> > been
> > >
> > > > completely neglected by the station for a long time.
> > > What's
> > > > wrong here? Or am I the only person who thinks the
> WNEW
> >
> > > > calls are at all important or significant?
> > > > >
> > > > > It would be great if they did it. But it's not gonna
>
> > > > happen.
> > > > > They still think Mix can beat KTU. Besides, CBS will
>
> > be
> > > > > going to the HD channel.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > young people only know it as Blink, Mix etc... and
> ignore
> > > the WNEW calls
> > >
> > and the amazing thing is that still they have no
> listeners.
> > . .
> >
> how can they not have listeners? they still have people
> calling request and contests. that still means they have
> listeners, if you don't like the format dosent mean that
> other people don't like it
>
Okay, on a very technical level, you are right. But in point of fact, WNEW has had static ratings for the past five years. Given all the turmoil there, you would think it would begin to build or completely implode. Yet, it just stays the same, so WNEW continues to be an also ran. And being an also ran is not necessarily a good thing.
 
Re: Ratings Question

>
> Question. How do they really figure out the ratings?
> Interviews with real listeners or something?
>

www.arbitron.com has a full explanation.
 
Re: Reality on CBS-FM ratings and billing. Disaster.

>
> They were in the Top 10 in the number one market! How can
> advertisers not like that? Plus, ratings don't have much to
> do with it. You are wrong on that. CBS FM was doing very
> well in ratings. It is mostly about the money.
>

In Fall of 1997, WCBS-FM had nearly a 6 share 25-54. In the last book, Winter, 2005, it had well under a 3 share. It had lost half its sales demos in 7 years. It had also lost about 20% of its billing, while the market was up... for a net billing decline against the market of over a third.

CBS-FM was doing horribly in the ratings where it counted. Advertisers do not buy 12+ numbers. They buy specific demographics, and 55 and over is not what they buy 99% of the time.
 
Re: Ratings Question

> Question. How do they really figure out the ratings?
> Interviews with real listeners or something?
>

It's a diary system, people are paid (minimumly I might add) to record what stations their household listens to... like the other poster says, go to arbitron.com for their explanation.
 
Re: Ratings for Dummies

>
> Question. How do they really figure out the ratings?
> Interviews with real listeners or something?
>

In synthesis...

Arbitron recruits by phone using SSI databases for each market, plus random digit dialing to catch unlisted numbers. They recruit all members of a household that accepts.

A household receives the diaries by mail. Each has an incentive, designed to create appreciation and guilt. A follow up call confirms receipt and clarifies the how to part of it.

A diary keeping household starts on a Tursday and ends on the next Wednesday. They fill in all listening on pages labeld by the day, with places for the time and tick boxes for listening location and whether it is AM or FM.

Arbitron attempts to get a proportional sample each week... that means the number of respondents in each cell corresponds to the proportion of that cell in the market. Cells are based on age, sex, ethnicity and geographic distribution in the market. If 40% of the market is Hispanic, 40% of the diaries should be Hispanic... and each week they shuffle depending on the returns from prior weeks.

A diarykeeper gets a call after the weekend, early int he week and at the end of the survey week to make sure they are filling the diary in.

Diaries are mailed back, and manually processed. First, they are digitally scanned, and the processor uses a screen image to tab in the data in the book. The processer has pop up files of station names, slogans, frequencies, program names, etc. to help.

Each book has 12 7-day cycles.

The number of diaries varies by market population. In general, in each 12 week book, the average diary represents about 1000 persons. So the chances of getting called each year are one in 250. The reason the sample is not larger is cost, as the sample is the largest cost in ratings or research. Stations, in general, do not feel like spending the money to increase the sample, as it takes four times the sample to cut the margin of error in half, and ratings are very expensive already.

(Please... don't take offense at the header... it is meant in jest.)
 
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