Radio 92.3

[oasisrulz]

Is this a new Alternative station in the market...the reason I ask this is because its owned by CBS and in Philly we have a Radio 1045, which has the same webpage and design and plays identical music, same logo, but is owned by Clear Channel. Radio 1045 is over 2 years old and always rates a 4.5 or over...the format is doing very well in Philly. Philly was the test ground for this format, I was under the impression CC owned the name Radio xxxx and the web design, who knows. How is the station doing in the ratings just curious...

 

[SonoSational18]

Radio (your frequency here) is too generic and too universal to trademark. The web design and logo may have come from a third party. As far as WKRK's ratings in Cleveland.... #14 with a 2/6 share in the winter book 12+.... #14 Persons 25-54... #5 Persons 18-34

 

[Rusty Muck]

Radio (your frequency here) is too generic and too universal to trademark. The web design and logo may have come from a third party. As far as WKRK's ratings in Cleveland.... #14 with a 2/6 share in the winter book 12+.... #14 Persons 25-54... #5 Persons 18-34

It's... "eh" here. But note that WKRK has suffered quite a bit since Rover defected to Clear Channel and WMMS... and having O&A replace him was the final nail in the coffin for "K-Rock." Eliminating all airstaff and flipping to a pseudo "AAA" format (I think Chuck called it an alternative/modern rock variant of "Jack") could only make it go up.

Plus, with CBS Radio's current cutbacks and new reliance on VTing, it kinda gave Q104, WDOK and WNCX a bit of a break... for now.

 

[rubberchicken]

WKRK was down into the 1 shares in its last K-ROCK books. They've been improving since the change.
This "Alt-Lite" format has been a solid performer in PPM, drawing big numbers in Philadelphia @ WRFF, Los Angeles @ KYSR, and recently Boston with WBOS. I know KYSR has jocks though.
It'll be interesting to see how WKRK performs with the meter. Personally I think they do a great job with the music selection.

 

[GoodBuddy]

I was hearing rumors a while back that WCLV might be moving to 92.3. Is there any possibility that may still happen?

 

[SonoSational18]

I was hearing rumors a while back that WCLV might be moving to 92.3. Is there any possibility that may still happen?

Mostly idle speculation is my guess, but.... All they need to do is buy the station. No secret that CBS is shopping all their non-major market properties. The question is.... does WCLV have the money and if so are they willing to part with it to get a better stick?

 

[radiojomo]

Radio 92.3 is here to stay (until the PPMs roll out in Cleveland at least). Alternative stations similar to what WKRK are doing are fairing EXCELLENT in the PPMs.

 

[Rusty Muck]

Plus, ANY rumor about WCLV is apparently warped from a "dream scenario" I had about who should buy the CBS Cleveland stations. (And with the depressed market for selling a station, they may not be sold for a loooooong time.)

And quite frankly, WKRK's coverage area is by far the worst among the cluster, while WQAL, WNCX and WDOK all have great signals. Adjacent channels in Toledo, Canton and Bellvue all diminish WKRK's signal even further. I really wouldn't expect anything special to come out of WKRK from here on out, as long as they are in CBS hands.

Especially after having lost Rover... it's not worth it.

 

[Stephen-novice]

I found Radio 92.3 on iTunes when I upgraded to 9 which now has HE-AAC streams. It's my new favorite station by leaps and bounds. There is nothing like it here in Indianapolis. The mix of classic alternative with new tracks peppered-in is perfect. The MD and PD deserve a slap on the back.

I am probably one of the few people streaming a terrestrial station on my iPhone.

Awesome station!!!

 

[sam1]

That idiot Conrad permitted the sale of 95.5, one of the "dumbest" things I've ever seen take place in the business. And I've seen some pretty dumb things. If Pat Patrick were still around, I think he would have punched Conrad out for that one. Also, if Pat were still around, WCLV would have not sold 95.5...Just a plain "dumb move" Good going Bobbie, you should be proud of yourself! First the idiotic move to Emory Rd, spearheaded by another idiot, Basil (on the wrong side of the ridge) Then, the antenna fiasco (nothing can help the schadowing from the ridge, except more tower height)..With clowns to the left of him, jokers to his right, no wonder Conrad flipped! All he had to do was ask any engineer who knew anything about that area and they would have told him not to move to Emory, but to put the tower on "Harvard ridge", or use an existing tower already on the ridge. It was just a DUMB, DUMB, DUMB move! They would have been better off on the TT flag pole. RIP CLV.
BTW, it's not too late to move the 95.5 to the ridge, along with 92.3. That would fix the "coverage" problem for both stations.

 

[johnbasalla]

Wasn't the reason Mr. Conrad permitted WCLV at 95.5 FM to be sold was because commercial classical music stations were dropping "left & right" nationwide. So, by selling the good coverage that 95.5 FM has at an, I would think, exhorbitant rate he not only gave his investors a good pay-day, but also now had the money to help ensure that classical music would be able to survive on the commercial airwaves. It worked out pretty well as this was before the current down-fall of the industry. If WCLV could get back 95.5 or get 92.3 without 'breaking the bank', that would seem to be a good move.

I had heard that he sold 95.5 to Clear Channel. Is that true? It got in the hands of Salem as you know.

 

[SonoSational18]

I had heard that he sold 95.5 to Clear Channel. Is that true? It got in the hands of Salem as you know.

It was a convoluted scenario involving three markets and about a half dozen radio stations. You'd need John Madden's chalkboard to follow all the buys and trades, but here's a simplified version:

Before:
850 AM WRMR, Standards, Salem
1000 AM WCCD, Conservative Talk, Salem
1220 AM WKNR, Sports, Salem
1420 AM WHK, Religion, Salem
95.5 FM WCLV, Classical, Seaway
96.5 FM WKDD, Hot AC, Clear Channel
98.1 FM WHK-FM, Religion, Salem
104.9 FM WAKS, CHR, Clear Channel

After:
850 AM WKNR, Sports, Salem (subsequently sold to Good Karma)
1000 AM WCCD, Conservative Talk, Salem (subsequently sold to Spirit Media and format changed to Religion)
1220 AM WHK, Religion (assumed programming from WHK-AM/FM. Later became WHKW) , Salem
1420 AM WCLV, Standards, Seaway (assumed intellectual property of WRMR. Later changed calls to WRMR. Subsequently sold back to Salem and became WHK and assumed intellectual property of WCCD)
95.5 FM WFHM, Christian Contemporary, Salem
96.5 FM WAKS, CHR (assumed intellectual property of WAKS/104.9), Clear Channel
98.1 FM WKDD, Hot AC (assumed intellectual property of WKDD/96.5), Clear Channel
104.9 FM WCLV-FM, Classical (assumed intellectual property of WCLV/95.5), Seaway

 

[74WIXYGrad]

And the player to be named later(at least I think) was WHLO. With Salem, it was religious/Solid Gospel. Sold to Clear Channel, it first was simulcasting WKDD, then went to news/talk.

 

[HHH]

John B. wrote:

"Wasn't the reason Mr. Conrad permitted WCLV at 95.5 FM to be sold was because commercial classical music stations were dropping "left & right" nationwide. So, by selling the good coverage that 95.5 FM has at an, I would think, exhorbitant rate he not only gave his investors a good pay-day, but also now had the money to help ensure that classical music would be able to survive on the commercial airwaves. It worked out pretty well as this was before the current down-fall of the industry. If WCLV could get back 95.5 or get 92.3 without 'breaking the bank', that would seem to be a good move."

Right you are, John. I have no idea who this "Sam1" is that wrote that Conrad made a big mistake. Conrad actually made a very shrewd and smart deal.

He cashed out 95.5 at the height of the market (it has since collapsed). He got something like 45 Million for it. From this wad, he then peeled off about 12 million and bought 104.9 from Clear Channel, who had to sell it (by FCC law) in order to move WAKS. I believe that he took the remaining money and established the WCLV Foundation which is the financial protection for 104.9. I believe Mr. Conrad reads this forum, so he may correct any of the specifics which may be wrong. But I think I got the events basically correct.

WQXR in New York, probably the biggest and most famous classical station in America, had to be rescued by New York Public Radio (and moved to a less powerful signal) because the WQXR owners (New York Times) were in financial trouble and the WQXR signal was worth more cashed out than operated as a classical station. WGMS Washington cashed out and went to a reduced signal. So did WCRB in Boston. Commercial classical stations in Miami, Philly and LA were not so lucky. KFAC, LA's classical station for 50 years, died without a trace. There was no Bob Conrad or New York Public Radio to rescue them.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Some assorted add-ons to the post-2001 local dial landscape:

* 98.1/Canton eventually changed COL to the Akron suburb of Munroe Falls - for the eventual move to return the current incarnation of WKDD to the former 96.5 site in Cuyahoga Falls (Bellaire Lane). The move was approved a while back, and should be happening very soon.

It's the third tower site in the 98.1 era of WKDD - the first, near Louisville in Stark County, was too far away from Akron...which caused in-office and clock radio listening to dive. CC moved 98.1 to its current site in Hartville, in Northwest Stark County, which solved many of those problems. And as mentioned, site #3 in the old Northampton Twp./Cuyahoga Falls is nearly up...the historic 96.5 site.

96.5 ended up sharing tower space in Brecksville with CC sister talk WTAM/1100, and has been run out of Oak Tree (suburban Cleveland, Independence) since the "Kiss FM" format migrated from 104.9, now WCLV.

* Speaking of 104.9, it, too, moved closer to Cleveland, with a stick in Avon in eastern Lorain County. It's still not a great rimshot, especially for the East Side cultural base that built WCLV's listenership. But the earlier poster is right - considering the fate of both commercial classical radio and the radio industry since the transaction, it was a good move by Robert Conrad. It saved the commercial classical format, well, at least for those who are in signal range.

 

[Rusty Muck]

I had heard that he sold 95.5 to Clear Channel. Is that true? It got in the hands of Salem as you know.

It was a convoluted scenario involving three markets and about a half dozen radio stations. You'd need John Madden's chalkboard to follow all the buys and trades, but here's a simplified version:

Before:
850 AM WRMR, Standards, Salem
1000 AM WCCD, Conservative Talk, Salem
1220 AM WKNR, Sports, Salem
1420 AM WHK, Religion, Salem
95.5 FM WCLV, Classical, Seaway
96.5 FM WKDD, Hot AC, Clear Channel
98.1 FM WHK-FM, Religion, Salem
104.9 FM WAKS, CHR, Clear Channel

After:
850 AM WKNR, Sports, Salem (subsequently sold to Good Karma)
1000 AM WCCD, Conservative Talk, Salem (subsequently sold to Spirit Media and format changed to Religion)
1220 AM WHK, Religion (assumed programming from WHK-AM/FM. Later became WHKW) , Salem
1420 AM WCLV, Standards, Seaway (assumed intellectual property of WRMR. Later changed calls to WRMR. Subsequently sold back to Salem and became WHK and assumed intellectual property of WCCD)
95.5 FM WFHM, Christian Contemporary, Salem
96.5 FM WAKS, CHR (assumed intellectual property of WAKS/104.9), Clear Channel
98.1 FM WKDD, Hot AC (assumed intellectual property of WKDD/96.5), Clear Channel
104.9 FM WCLV-FM, Classical (assumed intellectual property of WCLV/95.5), Seaway

Almost had it.

WCLV was donated by Seaway a few months after the swap to a non-profit organization dubbed the "WCLV Foundation" that included most of the area foundations and institutions. The plan was for 1420 to be the primary signal for WCLV, which Seaway would still own and simulcast on 104.9 (as 1420's night pattern flat-out didn't reach the Lorain area - a semi-different story after the 1420 tx was rehabbed after decades of neglect by Malrite, OmniAmerica and Salem between 2001 and 2003). 104.9 would be reverse-LMAed back to Seaway, which did happen and still is the case today.

That inital plan was nixed at the last second when Salem announced that WRMR would be going off the air in order to make room for WKNR's sports format. It was a great PR move by Robert Conrad to acquire WRMR's intellictual property for the 1420 signal, but at the expense of WCLV's format (and which hastened a quickly made simulcast arrangement with WBKC/1460 outside of AM drive and sports PBP that lasted four years).

The rimshot class A signal was never intended to be the primary signal. Although I believe the tx move to Avon had always been in the cards.

 

[Rusty Muck]

John B. wrote:

"Wasn't the reason Mr. Conrad permitted WCLV at 95.5 FM to be sold was because commercial classical music stations were dropping "left & right" nationwide. So, by selling the good coverage that 95.5 FM has at an, I would think, exhorbitant rate he not only gave his investors a good pay-day, but also now had the money to help ensure that classical music would be able to survive on the commercial airwaves. It worked out pretty well as this was before the current down-fall of the industry. If WCLV could get back 95.5 or get 92.3 without 'breaking the bank', that would seem to be a good move."

Right you are, John. I have no idea who this "Sam1" is that wrote that Conrad made a big mistake. Conrad actually made a very shrewd and smart deal.

He cashed out 95.5 at the height of the market (it has since collapsed). He got something like 45 Million for it. From this wad, he then peeled off about 12 million and bought 104.9 from Clear Channel, who had to sell it (by FCC law) in order to move WAKS. I believe that he took the remaining money and established the WCLV Foundation which is the financial protection for 104.9. I believe Mr. Conrad reads this forum, so he may correct any of the specifics which may be wrong. But I think I got the events basically correct.

WQXR in New York, probably the biggest and most famous classical station in America, had to be rescued by New York Public Radio (and moved to a less powerful signal) because the WQXR owners (New York Times) were in financial trouble and the WQXR signal was worth more cashed out than operated as a classical station. WGMS Washington cashed out and went to a reduced signal. So did WCRB in Boston. Commercial classical stations in Miami, Philly and LA were not so lucky. KFAC, LA's classical station for 50 years, died without a trace. There was no Bob Conrad or New York Public Radio to rescue them.

Don't forget Detroit, either.

WGMS got shortchanged big time by owner Bonneville. In fact, they DID pull the plug on it as a commercial classical station less than a year after scooting over to two rimshot signals.

Only WETA-FM rescued the format, bought the library, hired their PD and a few hosts, and acquired rights to the WGMS call letters for a translator signal. But the format did die, and there was a five-hour gap between WGMS' sign-off (3:00PM) and WETA-FM's flip from their previous news/talk format (8:00PM).

WETA, ironically enough, has one of the BEST FM signals in the DC metro, including a very decent Hagerstown relay (now WGMS)... so it was the best-possible scenario aside from Bob Conrad, KING/Seattle (which served as the model that Conrad used in donating WCLV to a non-profit) WRR/Dallas or WNYC/WQXR.

 

[rconrad]

It's been fun watching the comments on this subject. Mr. Obral and Ohio Media Watch have got most of the WCLV story correct. Clear Channel owned 104.9 and had a CP to upgrade the frequency to 6000 watts and 350 ft and move the antenna from Lorain to a point in Avon just across the county line 12 miles closer to downtown Cleveland. Part of the deal was that CC was to build out the CP, which, when completed, would be transferred to WCLV. The stock of Radio Seaway (WCLV) was transferred to the non-profit WCLV Foundation, on whose board sit two representatives from The Cleveland Foundation, two from ideastream (WVIZ and WCPN), and two from the former shareholders of WCLV. So we have this strange duck - a non-profit foundation owning a for-profit commercial radio station. The charge of the Foundation is to insure the continuation of classical music on the radio in northeast Ohio and to share profits of the station with six major arts institutions - The Cleveland Orchestra, the Cleveland Museum of Art, the Cleveland Institute of Music, the Cleveland Playhouse, the Cleveland Foundation and ideastream. Since 2003, WCLV has made an annual donation of $5000 each to the six organizations.

Yes, the 104.9 signal is not what 95.5 is. But we figured the sacrifice of the east lakeshore area (due to WKKY at 104.7) was worth the salvation of the station and the format and to insure its contiuation after we're off the scene. Besides radios are much improved even since 2001, and I get good reception on my new car radio in areas I couldn't before.

It is ironic that the $45 million paid for WQXR in New York is only somewhat more that the value of the WCLV deal in 2001. And the WCLV deal was worth considerably more than the $18 million than WGBH paid for WCRB in Boston, which had been sold by the orginal trust for $90 million.

Sam1 got one thing right. The original 95.5 antenna in Warrensville Heights was designed as a master antenna to include not only WCLV (95.5) but 107.9 (Beasly owned it - I forget the call letters, there's been so many changes)
provided that WNWV would grant a waver for 107.9 to move from its Geauga location to Warrensville Heights. WNWV didn't do that, so we were stuck with the master antenna, which did not work very well. It was replaced within a year or so by a simple three dipole array ballooned to the west. Interestingly, we were offered some land at the top of the ridge, but the accquistion of the current land had progressed too far at that point. Yes, it would have been better to have placed the tower up there. Incidentaly, Salem has replaced our antenna with an imporved non-directional array.

One very positive point about the 95.5 tower. It provided a very profitable antenna business. Today there are some 70 different antennas on the tower. We sold the business in 1992 to Omni-America, who in turn sold it to American Tower.

And an item regarding 1420 AM. WCLV still has a presense at that historic antenna site. We have an STL on the central tower, part of a dog-leg to the Avon transmitter. And we use the satellite dish out there for the Wall Street Journal Reports.

WCLV will celebrate its 50th anniversary in 2012...and is the only commercial station in Cleveland that hasn't changed its format and/or call letters in that period.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Bob, thanks for coming in and explaining a lot of the 104.9 situation from the *inside*.

I always lamented, for your case, that there wasn't a natural east side frequency to pair with 104.9/Lorain. Even 104.7/Geneva wouldn't fill that void, that I could see.

There are rumors out there that CBS Radio might be willing to part with a signal or four, but it sounds like you're pretty set in the current situation. And picking up, say, a 92.3 would mean spending some cash, even at today's bargain basement station valuations...

 

[HHH]

Mr. Conrad:

I know that I speak for a great many people when I say "thank you" for making sure that WCLV survived. The station is really a treasure.

Over here in Lake County, as you know, the signal gets pretty rough. I have a rooftop antenna on a rotator (which helps to null out 104.7 from Geneva), but even with the antenna pointed right at Avon, the stereo is pretty hissy (although mono is clean). I do listen on the internet a lot, but don't have this luxury in the car (not yet, anyway).

Just wondering. Is it financially possible, sound, etc to consider the following scenarios?

1) Get 92.3 from CBS. CBS is trying to sell all their Cleveland stations, I understand. 92.3 would probably be the least expensive. Better market coverage east-west, but still not great into Akron due to short spacing to 92.5 in Alliance. Would be better, though.

2) Negotiate with Warren Jones of WKKY 104.7 for the following "dream" scenario: Evidently, 93.7 is an unused allocation up around the Geneva area. See if Warren will move WKKY to 93.7 (which would be better for him because of no more WCLV on first adjacent channel). With 104.7 in limbo, move WCLV's 104.9 antenna to the top of the Key Building of the BP Building, possibly changing city of license to Avon or Lakewood or something. Maybe signal would be good enough to remain a Lorain license. Mount the bays on the antenna facing south/southeast to null toward the lake, which would balloon the signal over land a bit more. This probably wouldn't get you much more raw mileage, but position the grade A coverage in a more central location.

Regardless of what happens or does not happen with the current WCLV coverage, again thanks for keeping the station alive one way or another.