"Radio and Its Big Move Online"

[PocketRadio]

"Radio and Its Big Move Online"

"The industry is asking listeners to believe that "these are new and compelling programs." The audience won't buy into this because radio lost program credibility long ago. People need to hear for themselves the new HD Radio programming before paying $200 for a receiver."

http://www.audiographics.com/agd/061307-1.htm

Checking out HD Radio on-line is going to make me rush out and buy an expensive HD radio, knowing full-well what is involved in setting up the antennas, just to get problematic reception.

 

[PhilJSmith67]

If you don't already have an HD Radio, then you do not know full well how difficult or easy reception is. That is as ridiculous as me saying I know full well how to fly the Concorde because I spent hours in the cockpit on Microsoft Flight Simulator.

 

[PocketRadio]

If you don't already have an HD Radio, then you do not know full well how difficult or easy reception is. That is as ridiculous as me saying I know full well how to fly the Concorde because I spent hours in the cockpit on Microsoft Flight Simulator.

Because, I have read example after example of problems with reception on message boards and consumer retailer sites. Also, I tried an Accurian HD at RS and it just sat there trying to link - the analog boom-boxes were booming away, with just the supplied antennas.

 

[radiopilot]

If you don't already have an HD Radio, then you do not know full well how difficult or easy reception is. That is as ridiculous as me saying I know full well how to fly the Concorde because I spent hours in the cockpit on Microsoft Flight Simulator.

Because, I have read example after example of problems with reception on message boards and consumer retailer sites. Also, I tried an Accurian HD at RS and it just sat there trying to link - the analog boom-boxes were booming away, with just the supplied antennas.

Once again I offer the analogy of the hobbyist with photography, if you read the reviews by people indicating this particular camera is useless, doesn't take great pics, has problems with it's display, outputs a hot signal, sometimes works in one mode and not in the other, etc., would you buy the camera to test it for yourself or will you buy the camera that has great reviews? Same with any other piece of equipment, you read about it first and make a knowlegable conclusion on whether to buy or not, simple.

I know alot of the early adopter radio geeks bought the HD radios and are on these boards and others describing how they'll sell their sons and daughters for HD radio and how great it is, that's great for them but others don't see it that way and find faults with the system and why the FCC allowed this to happen 'intentional interference'.

Radiopilot

 

[PhilJSmith67]

Radiopilot, there is a big leap between making a knowledgeable conclusion after reading reviews, and "knowing FULL WELL" about something.

Mr. PocketRadio... Tried out a radio in a store? Is that the position you're actually going to take to defend your expert knowledge? I actually chuckled when I read that. Did the RS store clerk let you climb all over their shelving units to allow you to experiment with antennas? Where is this RadioShack that actually has "boom boxes booming away" on terrestrial radio stations IN THE STORE? Were these boxes booming away with nice, clear stereo reception? Of course not, because they're in a freakin' RadioShack store loaded with RFI. I tried a Sangean HDR-1 in the store before purchasing it and it only picked up 2 HD stations (intermittently). At home, it picks up 24 stations representing 34 streams.

 

[radiopilot]

Radiopilot, there is a big leap between making a knowledgeable conclusion after reading reviews, and "knowing FULL WELL" about something.

Mr. PocketRadio... Tried out a radio in a store? Is that the position you're actually going to take to defend your expert knowledge? I actually chuckled when I read that. Did the RS store clerk let you climb all over their shelving units to allow you to experiment with antennas? Where is this RadioShack that actually has "boom boxes booming away" on terrestrial radio stations IN THE STORE? Were these boxes booming away with nice, clear stereo reception? Of course not, because they're in a freakin' RadioShack store loaded with RFI. I tried a Sangean HDR-1 in the store before purchasing it and it only picked up 2 HD stations (intermittently). At home, it picks up 24 stations representing 34 streams.

Are you talking to me about the Radio Shack stores because all the ones I've visited HAVE NO FREAKIN HD RADIOS and that in a market where they broadcast HD.

I'm talking about people that have reviewd this radio on REAL forums dedicated to reviewing FM tuners and recievers, sure they say the Sangean is a good DX'g machine because of the way they it was engineered, it works great on analog, but that has nothing with the interference that HD brings onto AM.

Funny but I see you on that same board (FM Tuner Boards) spouting how great HD radio is. They got great reviews by alot of users of the HDT-1 radio both good and bad and mods for it. This is what I'm talking about.. if the reviews were dead on a good tuner I'd buy one simply for analog reception or DX'g.

So I stand where I stand regarding reviews and reasons to buy or not buy based on them.

Radiopilot

 

[PocketRadio]

Radiopilot, there is a big leap between making a knowledgeable conclusion after reading reviews, and "knowing FULL WELL" about something.

Mr. PocketRadio... Tried out a radio in a store? Is that the position you're actually going to take to defend your expert knowledge? I actually chuckled when I read that. Did the RS store clerk let you climb all over their shelving units to allow you to experiment with antennas? Where is this RadioShack that actually has "boom boxes booming away" on terrestrial radio stations IN THE STORE? Were these boxes booming away with nice, clear stereo reception? Of course not, because they're in a freakin' RadioShack store loaded with RFI. I tried a Sangean HDR-1 in the store before purchasing it and it only picked up 2 HD stations (intermittently). At home, it picks up 24 stations representing 34 streams.

I have tried analog boom-boxes in RS and BB with some FM stations coming in perfectly clear (105.9 and 94.7 FM in Wash., D.C.), using just the supplied whip antennas. The Accurian HD was near a window at RS, but could not link to an HD station. The boom boxes at RS were in the middle of the store and were in the back of BB. Besides, there is nothing worthwhile on HD that can't be received on analog, and I enjoy the portability of pocket-radios.

 

[clouseau]

Besides, there is nothing worthwhile on HD that can't be received on analog...

Pretty Broad sweeping statement from someone who lives in the distant suburbs of a major city and doesn't own an HD radio. I assume you took St. Louis, Houston, Denver and Miami into account with tyour assessment, right?

Maybe you should try DX?

Clouseau

 

[PocketRadio]

Besides, there is nothing worthwhile on HD that can't be received on analog...

Pretty Broad sweeping statement from someone who lives in the distant suburbs of a major city and doesn't own an HD radio. I assume you took St. Louis, Houston, Denver and Miami into account with tyour assessment, right?

Maybe you should try DX?

Clouseau

Olney, Md.

 

[radiopilot]

Besides, there is nothing worthwhile on HD that can't be received on analog...

Pretty Broad sweeping statement from someone who lives in the distant suburbs of a major city and doesn't own an HD radio. I assume you took St. Louis, Houston, Denver and Miami into account with tyour assessment, right?

Maybe you should try DX?

Clouseau

Here is an assessment from people with HD radios in Houston:

http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,72324.0.html

And for Miami:

http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,70236.0.html

And for San Diego:

http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,73286.0.html

Any others you can look them up yourself... in fact take a ratio of people who love HD verus those that don't just based on the three links I posted above to give an indication of how happy people are with HD radio.

You don't need to buy a lemon to know it's a lemon!

Radiopilot

 

[R.F. Burns]

Besides, there is nothing worthwhile on HD that can't be received on analog...

Pretty Broad sweeping statement from someone who lives in the distant suburbs of a major city and doesn't own an HD radio. I assume you took St. Louis, Houston, Denver and Miami into account with tyour assessment, right?

Maybe you should try DX?

Clouseau

Olney, Md.

Olney Md? Compared with cities like NY, LA & Chicago you're talking Hicksville. Speaking of Hicksville, in NYC if you want country music the only way to get it without a monthly fee is via HD radio. Same for oldies and many other HD formats. By the way, Sinatra never sang "Olney, if you can make it there you can make it anywhere", did he?

 

[radiopilot]

Besides, there is nothing worthwhile on HD that can't be received on analog...

Pretty Broad sweeping statement from someone who lives in the distant suburbs of a major city and doesn't own an HD radio. I assume you took St. Louis, Houston, Denver and Miami into account with tyour assessment, right?

Maybe you should try DX?

Clouseau

Olney, Md.

Olney Md? Compared with cities like NY, LA & Chicago you're talking Hicksville. Speaking of Hicksville, in NYC if you want country music the only way to get it without a monthly fee is via HD radio. Same for oldies and many other HD formats. By the way, Sinatra never sang "Olney, if you can make it there you can make it anywhere", did he?

In NYC people are not smart enough to turn on their computers and log online to get country music not only here in the U.S but from around the world. If people in NYC want country music just get satelite and listen to any of dozens of channels broadcasting country music, I guess the only thing RF is saying is that New Yorkers are dumb with a radio box in hand shaking it waiting for country music to spill out... Is something missing here or what?

Radiopilot

 

[R.F. Burns]

Besides, there is nothing worthwhile on HD that can't be received on analog...

Pretty Broad sweeping statement from someone who lives in the distant suburbs of a major city and doesn't own an HD radio. I assume you took St. Louis, Houston, Denver and Miami into account with tyour assessment, right?

Maybe you should try DX?

Clouseau

Olney, Md.

Olney Md? Compared with cities like NY, LA & Chicago you're talking Hicksville. Speaking of Hicksville, in NYC if you want country music the only way to get it without a monthly fee is via HD radio. Same for oldies and many other HD formats. By the way, Sinatra never sang "Olney, if you can make it there you can make it anywhere", did he?

In NYC people are not smart enough to turn on their computers and log online to get country music not only here in the U.S but from around the world. If people in NYC want country music just get satelite and listen to any of dozens of channels broadcasting country music, I guess the only thing RF is saying is that New Yorkers are dumb with a radio box in hand shaking it waiting for country music to spill out... Is something missing here or what?

Radiopilot

In NY (And I mean the entire metro area not just Manhattan, The Bronx, Queens, Brooklyn & Staten Island) we also drive to and from work and elsewhere and as of 2007 there is no online radio wireless radio service. You can receive HD radio in your car. HD radio is a free service. All of its competitors come with a monthly bill. Ny isn't alone in its rejection of the satellite broadcasters. Many of us get free XM service via our Directv feeds and you know what? When I am home and have my television on I want to watch TV not listen to music. I don't think anyone I know actually listens to music via their TV sets. It's more of a curiousity than a viable competitor. How many times must it be repeated, in relation to the number of people listening to radio, these alternatives such as XM & Sirius are dwarfed. I've read over and over that there's no interest in HD radio (although the HD rules have yet to be written to law as it's a new technology) and still there are about 500,000 radios out there. Satellite has been around for about 7 years or so and has stalled due to lack of interest. Let's give HD the same time frame before its death is declared. So far as I see it, it's a growth industry.

 

[radiopilot]

Besides, there is nothing worthwhile on HD that can't be received on analog...

Pretty Broad sweeping statement from someone who lives in the distant suburbs of a major city and doesn't own an HD radio. I assume you took St. Louis, Houston, Denver and Miami into account with tyour assessment, right?

Maybe you should try DX?

Clouseau

Olney, Md.

Olney Md? Compared with cities like NY, LA & Chicago you're talking Hicksville. Speaking of Hicksville, in NYC if you want country music the only way to get it without a monthly fee is via HD radio. Same for oldies and many other HD formats. By the way, Sinatra never sang "Olney, if you can make it there you can make it anywhere", did he?

In NYC people are not smart enough to turn on their computers and log online to get country music not only here in the U.S but from around the world. If people in NYC want country music just get satelite and listen to any of dozens of channels broadcasting country music, I guess the only thing RF is saying is that New Yorkers are dumb with a radio box in hand shaking it waiting for country music to spill out... Is something missing here or what?

Radiopilot

In NY (And I mean the entire metro area not just Manhattan, The Bronx, Queens, Brooklyn & Staten Island) we also drive to and from work and elsewhere and as of 2007 there is no online radio wireless radio service. You can receive HD radio in your car. HD radio is a free service. All of its competitors come with a monthly bill. Ny isn't alone in its rejection of the satellite broadcasters. Many of us get free XM service via our Directv feeds and you know what? When I am home and have my television on I want to watch TV not listen to music. I don't think anyone I know actually listens to music via their TV sets. It's more of a curiousity than a viable competitor. How many times must it be repeated, in relation to the number of people listening to radio, these alternatives such as XM & Sirius are dwarfed. I've read over and over that there's no interest in HD radio (although the HD rules have yet to be written to law as it's a new technology) and still there are about 500,000 radios out there. Satellite has been around for about 7 years or so and has stalled due to lack of interest. Let's give HD the same time frame before its death is declared. So far as I see it, it's a growth industry.

So New Yorkers are actually saying they don't want country music and the radio stations responded by not playing it on the main stations, now you say the only way to get it free is by getting an HD radio, is that considered 'free'? I think NOT and probably a million or so New Yorkers, what I'm implying is that country music might be a niche format in NY, therefore most people will obtain this music by online services or satelite, tell me RF how many stations are broadcasting Italian music, French music, Russian or Japanese music, but these types of music can be heard online becuase it's niche music.

Who mentioned WIFI, but soon it'll be at any municipality near you, Boston is on the way and so is Washington DC along with Philly and Baltimore, soon every city in the U.S. will be equipped with WIFI and I'm not saying it will be seamless listening but it will be there!

Radiopilot

 

[R.F. Burns]

Besides, there is nothing worthwhile on HD that can't be received on analog...

Pretty Broad sweeping statement from someone who lives in the distant suburbs of a major city and doesn't own an HD radio. I assume you took St. Louis, Houston, Denver and Miami into account with tyour assessment, right?

Maybe you should try DX?

Clouseau

Olney, Md.

Olney Md? Compared with cities like NY, LA & Chicago you're talking Hicksville. Speaking of Hicksville, in NYC if you want country music the only way to get it without a monthly fee is via HD radio. Same for oldies and many other HD formats. By the way, Sinatra never sang "Olney, if you can make it there you can make it anywhere", did he?

In NYC people are not smart enough to turn on their computers and log online to get country music not only here in the U.S but from around the world. If people in NYC want country music just get satelite and listen to any of dozens of channels broadcasting country music, I guess the only thing RF is saying is that New Yorkers are dumb with a radio box in hand shaking it waiting for country music to spill out... Is something missing here or what?

Radiopilot

In NY (And I mean the entire metro area not just Manhattan, The Bronx, Queens, Brooklyn & Staten Island) we also drive to and from work and elsewhere and as of 2007 there is no online radio wireless radio service. You can receive HD radio in your car. HD radio is a free service. All of its competitors come with a monthly bill. Ny isn't alone in its rejection of the satellite broadcasters. Many of us get free XM service via our Directv feeds and you know what? When I am home and have my television on I want to watch TV not listen to music. I don't think anyone I know actually listens to music via their TV sets. It's more of a curiousity than a viable competitor. How many times must it be repeated, in relation to the number of people listening to radio, these alternatives such as XM & Sirius are dwarfed. I've read over and over that there's no interest in HD radio (although the HD rules have yet to be written to law as it's a new technology) and still there are about 500,000 radios out there. Satellite has been around for about 7 years or so and has stalled due to lack of interest. Let's give HD the same time frame before its death is declared. So far as I see it, it's a growth industry.

So New Yorkers are actually saying they don't want country music and the radio stations responded by not playing it on the main stations, now you say the only way to get it free is by getting an HD radio, is that considered 'free'? I think NOT and probably a million or so New Yorkers, what I'm implying is that country music might be a niche format in NY, therefore most people will obtain this music by online services or satelite, tell me RF how many stations are broadcasting Italian music, French music, Russian or Japanese music, but these types of music can be heard online becuase it's niche music.

Who mentioned WIFI, but soon it'll be at any municipality near you, Boston is on the way and so is Washington DC along with Philly and Baltimore, soon every city in the U.S. will be equipped with WIFI and I'm not saying it will be seamless listening but it will be there!

Radiopilot

OK, let's see if I can make this simple for you. You mentioned internet radio and my comment is that most people are not housebound. If you want to hear country music (and while there is an audience for it, it's not large enough to support a full service radio station)
there's only one free method of receiving it and yes HD is free in that it comes with no monthly bills as does its competitors. The promise of Wi-Fi is great but HD is here now. Most people doin't want to wait for the infrastucture to be installed and in the meantime listen to over the air free radio and most people could care less about first adjacent radio stations. When I say most I mean well over 95% of the population. I'll put it this way, more people are happy with George Bush's performance in office than care about first adjacent interference.

 

[PhilJSmith67]

Radiopilot, there is a big leap between making a knowledgeable conclusion after reading reviews, and "knowing FULL WELL" about something.

Mr. PocketRadio... Tried out a radio in a store? Is that the position you're actually going to take to defend your expert knowledge? I actually chuckled when I read that. Did the RS store clerk let you climb all over their shelving units to allow you to experiment with antennas? Where is this RadioShack that actually has "boom boxes booming away" on terrestrial radio stations IN THE STORE? Were these boxes booming away with nice, clear stereo reception? Of course not, because they're in a freakin' RadioShack store loaded with RFI. I tried a Sangean HDR-1 in the store before purchasing it and it only picked up 2 HD stations (intermittently). At home, it picks up 24 stations representing 34 streams.

Are you talking to me about the Radio Shack stores because all the ones I've visited HAVE NO FREAKIN HD RADIOS and that in a market where they broadcast HD.

I'm talking about people that have reviewd this radio on REAL forums dedicated to reviewing FM tuners and recievers, sure they say the Sangean is a good DX'g machine because of the way they it was engineered, it works great on analog, but that has nothing with the interference that HD brings onto AM.

Funny but I see you on that same board (FM Tuner Boards) spouting how great HD radio is. They got great reviews by alot of users of the HDT-1 radio both good and bad and mods for it. This is what I'm talking about.. if the reviews were dead on a good tuner I'd buy one simply for analog reception or DX'g.

So I stand where I stand regarding reviews and reasons to buy or not buy based on them.

Radiopilot

I said that I tried an HD Radio in the store, not "a Radio Shack store." I tried HD Radios in several stores: Fry's Electronics in Downer's Grove, Tweeter in Orland Park, and another Tweeter on the north side of Chicago. The Fry's store is the only location where I could pick up any HD stations at all. However, it's also the only store where I could pick up any analog FM stations, too -- And many of those were blocked by whizzing and whirring RFI. The BA receiver at Tweeter/Orland was not connected to their roof antenna, and there is no radio reception of any kind inside that building without the outdoor antenna. The BA at Tweeter in Chicago was very intermittent on any station, HD or analog, due to rampant RF noise.

As for using reviews as an assessment, I never said anything bad about that. I do exactly the same thing. I most likely read all the reviews you did, or at least a large percentage of them. But there's a big difference between regurgitating reviews as personal experience, and actualy having legitimate personal experience. As for testing out reception in places where there essentially is none, that's just ludicrous. Would it be legitimate to test out reception on a handheld Sirius Stiletto inside the store? If it doesn't work, does that mean the Stiletto is defective?

 

[Tom Wells]

Besides, there is nothing worthwhile on HD that can't be received on analog...

Pretty Broad sweeping statement from someone who lives in the distant suburbs of a major city and doesn't own an HD radio. I assume you took St. Louis, Houston, Denver and Miami into account with tyour assessment, right?

Maybe you should try DX?

Clouseau

Olney, Md.

Olney Md? Compared with cities like NY, LA & Chicago you're talking Hicksville. Speaking of Hicksville, in NYC if you want country music the only way to get it without a monthly fee is via HD radio. Same for oldies and many other HD formats. By the way, Sinatra never sang "Olney, if you can make it there you can make it anywhere", did he?

In NYC people are not smart enough to turn on their computers and log online to get country music not only here in the U.S but from around the world. If people in NYC want country music just get satelite and listen to any of dozens of channels broadcasting country music, I guess the only thing RF is saying is that New Yorkers are dumb with a radio box in hand shaking it waiting for country music to spill out... Is something missing here or what?

Radiopilot

In NY (And I mean the entire metro area not just Manhattan, The Bronx, Queens, Brooklyn & Staten Island) we also drive to and from work and elsewhere and as of 2007 there is no online radio wireless radio service. You can receive HD radio in your car. HD radio is a free service. All of its competitors come with a monthly bill. Ny isn't alone in its rejection of the satellite broadcasters. Many of us get free XM service via our Directv feeds and you know what? When I am home and have my television on I want to watch TV not listen to music. I don't think anyone I know actually listens to music via their TV sets. It's more of a curiousity than a viable competitor. How many times must it be repeated, in relation to the number of people listening to radio, these alternatives such as XM & Sirius are dwarfed. I've read over and over that there's no interest in HD radio (although the HD rules have yet to be written to law as it's a new technology) and still there are about 500,000 radios out there. Satellite has been around for about 7 years or so and has stalled due to lack of interest. Let's give HD the same time frame before its death is declared. So far as I see it, it's a growth industry.

I can barely even stand to be in the same room with a CRT TV, due to the horizontal sweep 14,758 (or whatever) khz noise.
I built my TV into wall, behind plate glass. I built -42db passive notch filters for the speaker outputs to null the squeal.

When I was in KC a few weeks ago, I noticed the cable TV had FMs on it.
How could anybody listen to radio on a TV? Unless it's on some kind of new TV with no CRT.
And wouldn't the 3.57? mhz NTSC color-phase oscillator intermodulate badly with all the AM?
OHHHH! You mean some kinda cable! Not radio!

But the 14,758 hz would still be there. Maybe someday this upper-end response will be gone, but not yet. I'm 46.

 

[PhilJSmith67]

It took me less that two years of working on TVs to go tone-deaf to the 15734 Hz tones screaming from the sets. I was only 17 at the time. Fortunately that "notch" deafness came back a few months after I stopped working on TVs. At 40 I can still hear an analog TV's "presence" when I walk into someone's house, and it's always been "annoying but tolerable." PAL sets don't seem as loud even though the horizontal frequency is nearly the same, but the 25Hz refresh kills my eyes.

Back in the 90s my cable system still carried FM stations. I had the stereo connected to it with an FM bandpass filter and it worked great. Then, the cable provider threw on TV channels 95-99 and pulled all the FMs.