radio commercial music

[Radio Pro]

As the Production Manager, I'm still getting sales requesting the use of hit songs past and present behind commercials for clients.
My response is "no"!
Have the rules changed?

The other argument is the "7 second rule"
you can use 7 seconds or under of any song in a commercial. Response is the same.."no: !

Concert spots of artist(s) coming to town are the exception.

Opinions?

 

[PTBoardOp94]

"No" is always the correct answer.

 

[jimmyfish]

I agree 100 percent. If it is a copyrighted work and you are using it for a client, than no. Grey area being concerts or something promoting the artist. I have had people say that night clubs are the exception, but I still think if a client is profiting (without promoting an artist that may be coming to the club) it is a no.

When I do club spots for Canada clubs, they are real strict about not using an artists music, so I havbe to find something from one of my buyout libraries or custom make a music bed.

Here is a good question, what about a station using songs in promos, bumper music or a theme to a program (that may be sponsored even)? I know up to a point you are blanketed, but seems like another grey area when not actually promoting the artist/group.

 

[VODood]

I agree 100 percent. If it is a copyrighted work and you are using it for a client, than no. Grey area being concerts or something promoting the artist. I have had people say that night clubs are the exception, but I still think if a client is profiting (without promoting an artist that may be coming to the club) it is a no.

When I do club spots for Canada clubs, they are real strict about not using an artists music, so I havbe to find something from one of my buyout libraries or custom make a music bed.

Here is a good question, what about a station using songs in promos, bumper music or a theme to a program (that may be sponsored even)? I know up to a point you are blanketed, but seems like another grey area when not actually promoting the artist/group.

You are correct Jimmy, nightclubs are not allowed to use the music in spots. They are no different than any other retailer.

I recently programmed a talk station and had to go 'round with BMI over bumper music, how much per day, etc, etc. Fees are predicated upon usage and how much. Songs in any station imaging is permitted as you are covered by ASCAP & BMI. Includes bumper music.

Concert spots you can use the music as it is promoting the show. But you can't say "Joe Blow's Car Dealer welcomes Rhianna to the XYZ Stadium" then go into a spot for the dealer and use Rhianna's music to help the car dealer sell cars.

If a car dealer is sponsoring the concert, there is an issue as Ford may be a sponsor, but not the local Ford dealer. There are issues there. Just b/c Ford is nationally sponsoring doesn't give every local Ford dealer carte' blanche to use the artist's music in a regular car spot.

As Jimmy states, if copyrighted work, you cannot use for the benefit of another who is not paying a fee of some sort for the use of said copyright work.

Just like you can't say Super Bowl, Road to the Final Four, The New York Giants (can say Giants, but not all of it), etc etc. All copyrighted and servicemarked by others.

 

[phantom444]

Think you won't get caught, especially if you're in a nanomarket?

Check [url http://www.taylornews.org/mcc/2009/04/16/music-producers-sue-independence-radio-stations/#more-650]this[/url] out.

 

[phantom444]

Let me try this again:
Think you won't get caught, especially if you're in a nanomarket?

Check this out.

 

[elchupacabras]

Here is a good question, what about a station using songs in promos, bumper music or a theme to a program (that may be sponsored even)? I know up to a point you are blanketed, but seems like another grey area when not actually promoting the artist/group.

No problem there. As long as it is a billboard and not a full commercial. In fact, those are declared on BMI logging.

And yes, I worked in 2 nanomarkets where the stations and/or advertisers got busted for infringement. IT DOES HAPPEN.

 

[inthebag]

Here's another one. An ad agency here in town tried to make a name for themselves with advertisers by taking an instrumental version of a hit song, hiring a vocalist to sing the original lyrics, changing a few words and lines to make it a "jingle" for an advertiser. While they didn't actually get busted, they did have to pay a LARGE settlement to one of the artists they ripped off when that artist's manager heard the spot on the air.

Whenever a salesperson approached me about using copyrighted music in a commercial, I always told them it was okay with me, provided they signed an affidavit personally assuming any and all legal responsibility that might arrise from the use of the music. That usually put an end to the discussion.

And while we're at it, hit songs aren't the only copyrighted material you have to watch out for. I've been in the imaging library business for the last 10 years, providing original music beds, sounds and such to stations. Whenever we find a station using our material without a license, we're all over them like ugly on my ex-wife. So if a friend or someone else passes some imaging material along to you, telling you it's okay to use it, be careful.

 

[Emmett1057]

we're all over them like ugly on my ex-wife.

Hahaha!

 

[elchupacabras]

Here's another one. An ad agency here in town tried to make a name for themselves with advertisers by taking an instrumental version of a hit song, hiring a vocalist to sing the original lyrics, changing a few words and lines to make it a "jingle" for an advertiser. While they didn't actually get busted, they did have to pay a LARGE settlement to one of the artists they ripped off when that artist's manager heard the spot on the air.

Whenever a salesperson approached me about using copyrighted music in a commercial, I always told them it was okay with me, provided they signed an affidavit personally assuming any and all legal responsibility that might arrise from the use of the music. That usually put an end to the discussion.

And while we're at it, hit songs aren't the only copyrighted material you have to watch out for. I've been in the imaging library business for the last 10 years, providing original music beds, sounds and such to stations. Whenever we find a station using our material without a license, we're all over them like ugly on my ex-wife. So if a friend or someone else passes some imaging material along to you, telling you it's okay to use it, be careful.

I was aware of a situation where a car dealer got busted for using Sugarloaf's "Green Eyed Lady" for their spots. They then went to an ad agency to cut a similar sounding track and guess what? Got busted again and had to pay a big licensing fee.

 

[phantom444]

I worked in 2 nanomarkets where the stations and/or advertisers got busted for infringement. IT DOES HAPPEN.

What did those stations have to cough up? I would think a single $150,000.00 judgment against an owner like Tallgrass would put all their stations out of business.

 

[the undork]

I had MAJOR problems with this issue as a medium market production director a few years ago.

The sales manager insisted that current music be used on spots for a local nightclub. The club ran a couple of hundred spots accross four stations every week.

It was actually our second largest account and according to the sales manager the client insisted on the music and believed it's use on his spots was covered under the license deal for the club. That's clearly wrong, but there was no convincing this guy.

In the meantime, the operations manager was all over my case about it, even going so far as to pull out the company handbook which quoted the FCC regs on the matter.

Being caught in a very uncomfortable positon between the two managers, I went over both of their heads to the market manager. He admitted it was illegal, but that they had always looked the other way because it was such a big account. He said that if we didn't do it, the competition would and we couldn't afford to pass up the business. His final word was I could do it, or find somewhere else to NOT do it.

I couldn't afford to quit, so I did it, but I moved on from that job as quickly as possible. I made sure and documented all of the discussion with managers I had over it to protect myself as much as possible if the (bleep) ever hit the fan. I don't know if they ever got busted, but I was not going to be the one to take that hit. It's just not worth it.

 

[elchupacabras]

I worked in 2 nanomarkets where the stations and/or advertisers got busted for infringement. IT DOES HAPPEN.

What did those stations have to cough up? I would think a single $150,000.00 judgment against an owner like Tallgrass would put all their stations out of business.

I think it was around $10,000 and a slap on the hands.

 

[VODood]

If I've told this story before forgive me. While a Prod Director in Cleveland I taped a competitor who used Michael Buffer's "Let's Get Ready to Rumble" in station promos. Normally stations are covered for use of music, etc. But I had just read an article, maybe in RAP, that Buffer would go after stations using his well known, but copyrighted, audio from the Jock Jams cd and other sources. A talk station in town used it in their promos. I taped them and sent the audio to buffer with the times it aired. About two months later I found out that Buffer sued for $5k per infraction, and won. A month later the station I was with was bought by Jacor, who also owned the talk station in question. There was quite a bit of paperwork, including copyright infringement, etc etc and spoke of the Buffer issue. No one ever knew it was me. Not til years later.

While with CC in Raleigh there was a big to do about using Godzilla FX in promos, etc. Big no-no. Stations were being fined left and right.


A friend of mine, who works in Wilmington NC, just got a group of stations busted for the Buffer stuff. The fine was $15k for each infraction. No idea where it stands legally.

 

[elchupacabras]

Yep! One of the stations I worked across town from was busted by Buffer!

 

[MarkAndrews]

VODood: If you did share this before, it's most CERTAINLY worth repeating! Thanks for sharing...Lessons learned by all wise ones out there.

 

[KevinFodor]

Just today in my market, we had a contact from a client that wanted to use the 1963 hit by the Rooftop Singers "Walk Right In", retooled lyrically for their spot. Their reasoning was that, they claimed, the song was in "public domain", and used an internet reference as proof.

I was suspicious. So, I looked it up. The song, an old folk song written in 1929, was listed as a track on a CD entitled "Public Domain". The CD says nothing about the songs on it being in "public domain"...that's just the name of the CD. But that's what a radio salesperson used as "proof" that the song was in public domain.

According to another website I visited, a song does not go into the real public domain until the songwriter has been dead for 70 years. The writer of "Walk Right In" died in 1979. So, it'll be another 40 years before that song will be really in public domain.

Figures. All the bad information came to the client from one of our competitors. They should know better. But, of course, they don't.

 

[VODood]

Just today in my market, we had a contact from a client that wanted to use the 1963 hit by the Rooftop Singers "Walk Right In", retooled lyrically for their spot. Their reasoning was that, they claimed, the song was in "public domain", and used an internet reference as proof.

I was suspicious. So, I looked it up. The song, an old folk song written in 1929, was listed as a track on a CD entitled "Public Domain". The CD says nothing about the songs on it being in "public domain"...that's just the name of the CD. But that's what a radio salesperson used as "proof" that the song was in public domain.

According to another website I visited, a song does not go into the real public domain until the songwriter has been dead for 70 years. The writer of "Walk Right In" died in 1979. So, it'll be another 40 years before that song will be really in public domain.

Figures. All the bad information came to the client from one of our competitors. They should know better. But, of course, they don't.

Sounds like your competitor either doesn't care, or doesn't know anything about copyright. Or...even may have been trying to set you up.