You can believe whatever you want to believe. We talked about this on the LA board, and demonstrated that you can still make money with a low rated sports station. It's hard to make money with an AM signal these days, but sports is still viable on AM...regardless of what anyone else believes. So that's why you have a bunch of sports stations in Seattle.
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Radio - dead and loving it (sorry Mel Brooks)
- Thread starter howdareu
- Start date
You can believe whatever you want to believe. We talked about this on the LA board, and demonstrated that you can still make money with a low rated sports station. It's hard to make money with an AM signal these days, but sports is still viable on AM...regardless of what anyone else believes. So that's why you have a bunch of sports stations in Seattle.
They survive because tricky corporate economics allow a bunch of tax breaks (that you make up for taxpayer, giggles!) so operating a "load" bearing station can be done.
IF you are a corp.
If NOT, you don't have lawyers, tax tricks, and tricky economics like cable tv uses as well for the many channels that don't have enough viewers to make $ense.
IF you are a corp.
If NOT, you don't have lawyers, tax tricks, and tricky economics like cable tv uses as well for the many channels that don't have enough viewers to make $ense.
You must be a lot of fun around the house. And don't take any deductions.
It goes in one ear and out the other.
Alright BigA, that was funny. I must admit you kids will throw sand until the entire beach is gone. No matter what folks, NO ONE in business enjoys making little or no profit if they are a normal business and not funded by the government. Sports can make money on AM, when most music formats do not and religious formats have their niches and restrictions. Look at it this way - not one of today's top 100 radio companies would trade a viable 100kw FM station for a small AM. Sometimes, you have to take what you have and do the best you can. Does corporate radio or radio in 2015 have all the answers? NO. No one says it does. But, if you own a little AM station, you have to try to find your place in the sun or just surrender all hope.
There are no tax breaks for being a sports station. But there is access to a ton of sports-only and sports marketing dollars.
I don't know of a station today that is not owned by a corporation.
There are no unusual tax loopholes for radio stations. Nothing like oil depletion allowances and such.
In fact, most radio stations are small businesses as the average gross billing of a US radio station is around $600,000, meaning there are thousands and thousands of stations billing a couple of hundred thousand a year from which to pay expenses, loans and whatnot. No tricks, no chicanery. Just small businesses.
Really? Small businesses like CBS and iHeart? AM 1090 and AM 950 are just ma & pa kettle trying to make it.
I'm pretty sure the big corp owners do get tax favors since all those lawyers aren't for nothing.
Corporations today are making a sack of small business because they DO get preferential taxation, they are one of the biggest parties to hiring illegals and non citizens because they are cheap and they are definitely NOT like the small business suffering on the street corner. As I see it the stock market and the top players continue to do very well under Obama. Oh and my brother's small business however, which also profited in recent years due to increased robotization in his industry as people lose their jobs he actually is one of the exception SMALL industries - by selling machines that replace people.
I doubt any small business owner would agree CBS, iHeart and the like are "small".
I'm pretty sure the big corp owners do get tax favors since all those lawyers aren't for nothing.
Corporations today are making a sack of small business because they DO get preferential taxation, they are one of the biggest parties to hiring illegals and non citizens because they are cheap and they are definitely NOT like the small business suffering on the street corner. As I see it the stock market and the top players continue to do very well under Obama. Oh and my brother's small business however, which also profited in recent years due to increased robotization in his industry as people lose their jobs he actually is one of the exception SMALL industries - by selling machines that replace people.
I doubt any small business owner would agree CBS, iHeart and the like are "small".
Some stations are owned by large corporations, but the vast majority are owned by small companies ("corporations") that are family owned or small groups of partners.
The lawyers are generally there to make sure that tax law is being interpreted correctly. One of the same reasons companies have outside auditors
Tax codes are so complicated that any company operating in a number of different tax jurisdictions needs constant legal advice to follow the rules.
I still have no idea what "tax favors" might be granted. In any case, the subset of this discussion was about low-rated sports stations generally being, nonetheless, very profitable. The reason is not some silly "black helicopter" type of tax manipulation but because there is lots of revenue available for sports. Hint: no matter how many tax tricks you might think sports stations are trying, you can't have a profit unless you have revenue. And if you don't have revenue, worrying about taxes is absurd... you don't pay any if you lose money.
The tax rates are the same for big companies as for small ones.
We are talking about radio here. I don't personally know of any radio company that knowingly hires undocumented workers. Everywhere I have worked in the US checks via the government service for eligibility and requires documentation of the ability to legally work in the US.
This is about radio, not the Dow Jones or NASDAQ averages. Please confine the discussion to radio stations or companies with significant broadcast interests.
Irrelevant.
I did not say the were. I did say that stations, big and small, are owned by corporations and that the average US station bills just $600 k gross income a year. A few big companies and lots of little ones are what you see in the ownership of radio.
I have tried to use the more common font and size... but apparently something got set this way several site administrations back. So I figured I would just leave it alone.
Every business, big or small, takes business deductions -- which -- at least acc. to the IRS, is any expense within reason that is the cost of running the business. And of course there are some limits. But the average American business deducts between 30-80% of their revenue. Including your uncle's. And including CBS.
80 percent of private sector employees in the US work for corporate entities (S corps, LLCs, etc.), or partnerships. There is nothing intrinsically bad about corporations. Without them, a lot of businesses would refuse to take risks, incl. the 'risk'of hiring people.
As for sports radio, I'm glad those stations are on the air. I listen to most of them -- esp. the national networks because the local shows bore me. But that aside, from what I read on another thread here, the sports stations are one of two or three formats that cater primarily to male listeners. The other formats are more aimed to attract female demos. So taking away sports stations would give male listeners less choice. Experts here feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
80 percent of private sector employees in the US work for corporate entities (S corps, LLCs, etc.), or partnerships. There is nothing intrinsically bad about corporations. Without them, a lot of businesses would refuse to take risks, incl. the 'risk'of hiring people.
As for sports radio, I'm glad those stations are on the air. I listen to most of them -- esp. the national networks because the local shows bore me. But that aside, from what I read on another thread here, the sports stations are one of two or three formats that cater primarily to male listeners. The other formats are more aimed to attract female demos. So taking away sports stations would give male listeners less choice. Experts here feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Unless you're Hubbard, owners of News/Talk WMAL in Baltimore. They just announced they're selling their long standing AM transmitter site property for reportedly $100 million. Cha-Ching! No word on whether they will relocate, or just turn in the license. This is another example of property value exceeding the value of the signal, which I suspect we'll see more of in the future. Wait till Sinclair finds out how valuable the Vashon property for KVI is..
Overlooking of course THE FACT that those "crafty salespersons" bring in the advertising that pays the bills (the cliche is, "we all work for the sales department"), and those "good engineers" keep the signal on the air and do their best to make it sound nifty. You can be LISTENING FOR...whatever it is... all you like, but you ain't gonna hear much without them.
No one forces you to listen. If you don't like it, find something else.
KVI actually has a small buildable lot compared to the unbuildable wetland and beach property that makes up the transmitter site. I bet Sinclair could get more selling a 25 acre parcel off of the KOMO site. There is a great piece of property with views of the Puget sound and Mt Rainer on the KOMO site and it's already sub divided. Sinclair could sell 25 acres off the KOMO plant and hardly notice it.
The old site for KARR and KKDZ nite site has a lot more potential than the KVI property because you can put more houses on it and or maybe a strip mall.
Yes the KVI property is nice, but there would be push back from the county if you wanted to put anything bigger on that small irregular lot where the transmitter site is and the Beach and wet land are un buildable. I doubt that Sinclair could get much money for the Vashon properties, compared to the KARR site in Kirkland or WMAL.
The KVI property is real nice, but has no potential beyond a single family home or maybe a duplex. But you are right there are some AM transmitter sites with property worth more than the station. KOMO almost fall into that category because the site is around 100 acres and if you threw in KVI that would be an sweet deal. The KOMO AM land is more developable, if you want to take a ferry to get here.
I bet you miss going out to inspect that KVI site during the summer. Even Gene Autry visited the site in the 70's when they got an MW5. Vashon actually may be a safe place for AM transmitters. They can't even sell the Tom Stewarts estate or K2 factory out here. Yes I can see KVI property selling but only for a single family home under $650,000 or lower. I could see a neighbor buying the place, the property next to the KVI site is worth more and the lot in front of it is worth even more. There are just better beach front properties on Vashon to build on than the KVI lot due to zoning and lot size.
The old site for KARR and KKDZ nite site has a lot more potential than the KVI property because you can put more houses on it and or maybe a strip mall.
Yes the KVI property is nice, but there would be push back from the county if you wanted to put anything bigger on that small irregular lot where the transmitter site is and the Beach and wet land are un buildable. I doubt that Sinclair could get much money for the Vashon properties, compared to the KARR site in Kirkland or WMAL.
The KVI property is real nice, but has no potential beyond a single family home or maybe a duplex. But you are right there are some AM transmitter sites with property worth more than the station. KOMO almost fall into that category because the site is around 100 acres and if you threw in KVI that would be an sweet deal. The KOMO AM land is more developable, if you want to take a ferry to get here.
I bet you miss going out to inspect that KVI site during the summer. Even Gene Autry visited the site in the 70's when they got an MW5. Vashon actually may be a safe place for AM transmitters. They can't even sell the Tom Stewarts estate or K2 factory out here. Yes I can see KVI property selling but only for a single family home under $650,000 or lower. I could see a neighbor buying the place, the property next to the KVI site is worth more and the lot in front of it is worth even more. There are just better beach front properties on Vashon to build on than the KVI lot due to zoning and lot size.
It's Cumulus's WMAL in Washington... a nice 630 AM, but with some nasty night nulls.
This is the second time a DC station has capitalized on land value: some years ago 570 AM (the old WGMS) sold its land and moved farther outside the market with a new facility.
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For all practical purposes, any expense incurred in running a business is deductible.* In some business areas, expenses take up as much as 99% of the gross income under normal conditions; supermarket chains typically have around a 1% net margin.
What howdareu apparently does not understand is that businesses only pay taxes on the profit, not the gross income. Salaries, cost of goods sold, inventory shrinkage, utilities, insurance, bonuses, legal fees, dues, subscriptions, licences, other kinds of taxes and so on are all deductible.
Companies that have higher expenses than income lose money and pay no income tax. Companies that have lost money in the past can carry the loss forward as a "credit" against future taxes. Any business, small or large, can do this.
* The exceptions are: "entertainment" meaning business lunches, etc., are deductible at a 50% rate and large capital expenses must be depreciated (meaning deducted) over a period of years appropriate for the asset type.
And it's not really a "corporate" thing, but a business thing. I guess the poster prefers stations owned by individuals. But even individuals can deduct expenses. I've run a sole prop, and I can deduct a lot of the same things. The advantage of a corporation comes in areas like lawsuits, insurance, and regulations. It just makes more sense to operate a radio station as a corporation.
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