For what it's worth, Radio Disney Houston (KMIC 1590) has installed their IBOC and will be using it daytime shortly. Those with IBOC radios might check it out and see what it sounds like.
Texas Tuner
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Radio Disney and IBOC
- Thread starter TexasTuner
- Start date
C
CW
Guest
> For what it's worth, Radio Disney Houston (KMIC 1590) has
> installed their IBOC and will be using it daytime shortly.
> Those with IBOC radios might check it out and see what it
> sounds like.
>
> Texas Tuner
>
Those with standard analog radios can listen to the sideband trash and see what IT sounds like
> installed their IBOC and will be using it daytime shortly.
> Those with IBOC radios might check it out and see what it
> sounds like.
>
> Texas Tuner
>
Those with standard analog radios can listen to the sideband trash and see what IT sounds like
R
rbrucecarter
Guest
> Those with standard analog radios can listen to the sideband
> trash and see what IT sounds like
Up here in Dallas, they have been IBOC for over a year. Since I am an engineer, I have fielded more questions than I like to about "why its not in stereo in the car" (they used to be in C-Quam), "why it sounds muffled / like crap now" (their analog signal is terrible, and got much worse in the last couple of weeks), and "why is it full of static" (from kids listening on cheap radios that have awful IF stages that are wide as a barn door). When I tell them they need a $300 radio to hear it in stereo / get good sound - I get blank stares. I think ABC / Disney should re-think their business plan. Every Chrysler and Ford still comes with C-Quam AM stereo, and Disney could be doing a brisk business selling C-Quam AM radios for $30 each (like you can get them from Japan).
> trash and see what IT sounds like
Up here in Dallas, they have been IBOC for over a year. Since I am an engineer, I have fielded more questions than I like to about "why its not in stereo in the car" (they used to be in C-Quam), "why it sounds muffled / like crap now" (their analog signal is terrible, and got much worse in the last couple of weeks), and "why is it full of static" (from kids listening on cheap radios that have awful IF stages that are wide as a barn door). When I tell them they need a $300 radio to hear it in stereo / get good sound - I get blank stares. I think ABC / Disney should re-think their business plan. Every Chrysler and Ford still comes with C-Quam AM stereo, and Disney could be doing a brisk business selling C-Quam AM radios for $30 each (like you can get them from Japan).
> Up here in Dallas, they have been IBOC for over a year.
> Since I am an engineer, I have fielded more questions than I
> like to about "why its not in stereo in the car" (they used
> to be in C-Quam), "why it sounds muffled / like crap now"
> (their analog signal is terrible, and got much worse in the
> last couple of weeks), and "why is it full of static" (from
> kids listening on cheap radios that have awful IF stages
> that are wide as a barn door).
I've heard music AM's sound really good in analog after cutting back the bandwith in preparation for IBOC, but it takes a *lot* of tweaking to pull it off. If you don't change the processing (or just pick a preset) you're not doing your audience any favors.
But I really wish Ibiquity would hold off on AM IBOC until it's ready for prime time. Then again, this might be as good as it gets...<P ID="signature">______________
...co-moderator of the Satellite Radio, Phoenix, Houston, Dallas, and San Diego boards...</P>
> Since I am an engineer, I have fielded more questions than I
> like to about "why its not in stereo in the car" (they used
> to be in C-Quam), "why it sounds muffled / like crap now"
> (their analog signal is terrible, and got much worse in the
> last couple of weeks), and "why is it full of static" (from
> kids listening on cheap radios that have awful IF stages
> that are wide as a barn door).
I've heard music AM's sound really good in analog after cutting back the bandwith in preparation for IBOC, but it takes a *lot* of tweaking to pull it off. If you don't change the processing (or just pick a preset) you're not doing your audience any favors.
But I really wish Ibiquity would hold off on AM IBOC until it's ready for prime time. Then again, this might be as good as it gets...<P ID="signature">______________
...co-moderator of the Satellite Radio, Phoenix, Houston, Dallas, and San Diego boards...</P>
R
rbrucecarter
Guest
> I've heard music AM's sound really good in analog after
> cutting back the bandwith in preparation for IBOC, but it
> takes a *lot* of tweaking to pull it off.
The mistake a lot of them make is to assume that their analog low pass filter is "flat" in phase. Even a Butterworth response, which is flat in amplitude, has rapidly changing phase near its cutoff frequency. That translates into different group delays for different frequencies. Since voice and musical instruments are composed of primary tones plus many harmonics, it is disasterous when those harmonics arrive at different times due to the differing group delay. What these stations need is Bessel response filters - but those take many more stages to achieve the same roll off.
Also - assuming that the filters don't pass anything above the cutoff frequency is wrong. They roll off at a fixed rate. As RD Dallas probably discovered recently, you have to put the cutoff frequency considerably below 5 kHz to avoid interfering with the digital sidebands. The results is a muddled mess that sounds little better than the 1.7 kHz AM bandwidth you get on a Bose Wave radio. I would sure hate to try to be hearing somebody with a high pitched voice on Radio Disney - the resulting distortion would be awful. And right now, the scrambled harmonics make it sound like it is clipping. Terrible analog sound. Its a wonder kids listen at all, particularly when they are used to better sounding FM and iPods. Most kids around here have abandoned Radio Disney - it sounds so bad - in favor of the top 40 station. They would like to get Radio Disney because of the songs from "High School Musical" - but the quality is so poor they just can't listen.
> cutting back the bandwith in preparation for IBOC, but it
> takes a *lot* of tweaking to pull it off.
The mistake a lot of them make is to assume that their analog low pass filter is "flat" in phase. Even a Butterworth response, which is flat in amplitude, has rapidly changing phase near its cutoff frequency. That translates into different group delays for different frequencies. Since voice and musical instruments are composed of primary tones plus many harmonics, it is disasterous when those harmonics arrive at different times due to the differing group delay. What these stations need is Bessel response filters - but those take many more stages to achieve the same roll off.
Also - assuming that the filters don't pass anything above the cutoff frequency is wrong. They roll off at a fixed rate. As RD Dallas probably discovered recently, you have to put the cutoff frequency considerably below 5 kHz to avoid interfering with the digital sidebands. The results is a muddled mess that sounds little better than the 1.7 kHz AM bandwidth you get on a Bose Wave radio. I would sure hate to try to be hearing somebody with a high pitched voice on Radio Disney - the resulting distortion would be awful. And right now, the scrambled harmonics make it sound like it is clipping. Terrible analog sound. Its a wonder kids listen at all, particularly when they are used to better sounding FM and iPods. Most kids around here have abandoned Radio Disney - it sounds so bad - in favor of the top 40 station. They would like to get Radio Disney because of the songs from "High School Musical" - but the quality is so poor they just can't listen.
Terrible analog sound. Its a wonder kids
> listen at all, particularly when they are used to better
> sounding FM and iPods. Most kids around here have abandoned
> Radio Disney - it sounds so bad - in favor of the top 40
> station. They would like to get Radio Disney because of the
> songs from "High School Musical" - but the quality is so
> poor they just can't listen.
>
Well, they can always listen to it on XM or a high speed internet connection.
Texas Tuner
> listen at all, particularly when they are used to better
> sounding FM and iPods. Most kids around here have abandoned
> Radio Disney - it sounds so bad - in favor of the top 40
> station. They would like to get Radio Disney because of the
> songs from "High School Musical" - but the quality is so
> poor they just can't listen.
>
Well, they can always listen to it on XM or a high speed internet connection.
Texas Tuner
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