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Radio guru: Expect more talk on FM

M

mwebster

Guest
From David Hinckley, NY Daily News. The article talks about NY Radio but applies to FreeFM stations launching across the country and to the future of FM radio, in general.

<blockquote>The "Free FM" format that Infinity will roll out on WXRK (92.3 FM) in January, with talk during the week and rock over the weekend, will sound familiar to listeners of WKXW (101.5 FM, New Jersey 101.5).

WKXW has scored for years with weekday talk and weekend music (in this case oldies), and the consultant who put it together says he sees no reason it shouldn't work at K-Rock and other Infinity stations.

"There's absolutely an audience for talk on FM," says Walter Sabo of Sabo Media - maybe not predominantly political talk like WABC, but the broader-based talk New Jersey 101.5 goes for. The idea, trickier than it sounds, is to talk about whatever is on a listener's mind that day: lifestyle, local issues, personal issues, entertainment, sports, music and some politics.

WKXW also very smartly branded itself a New Jersey station, talking about New Jersey issues with services like localized traffic. But Sabo doesn't think K-Rock will be hampered by having the syndicated David Lee Roth as morning host.

"K-Rock can be as local as it needs to be," he says. "And Infinity has WCBS-AM and WINS for people who want more than that. I think they're covered."

Infinity Senior Vice President Les Hollander says Free FM was hatched after Howard Stern announced he is leaving in January for Sirius Satellite Radio.

"That was a wake-up call," says Hollander, and Infinity decided that rather than simply replace Stern on K-Rock and his 26 affiliate stations, it would also look at broader overhauls for stations like K-Rock, where listenership for years has dropped sharply every day when Stern's show ends.

One of the biggest changes here, besides Stern leaving, is that for 35 years FM has been almost entirely used for music. But Sabo says with satellite, iPods and other alternatives to traditional radio, that's changing. In a growing number of cases now, he says, FM's best shot at "unique content" may not be music.

"If I owned four FMs in a city, I'd take them all talk," says Sabo. "I'd have one targeted at women 18 to 34, one for men 18 to 34, one for women 35 to 44 and one for men 35 to 44. And I'd make more money than I would with music."

The trade newsletter Inside Radio says 89 FMs are now primarily talk, and as more stations drop music formats, that creates more disenfranchised music listeners. Sabo suggests that while they will scatter to many different alternatives, the biggest beneficiaries will be satellite radio rivals Sirius and XM.

Both offer, for a fee, the music that traditional commercial radio isn't offering in many markets: oldies, country, folk, standards, different kinds of rock.

"Satellite works like a traditional radio," says Sabo. "You turn it on and tune it in. People understand it. And it offers what your iPod can't offer after the first month: a surprise." </blockquote>
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/ent_radio/story/360851p-307476c.html
 
> "If I owned four FMs in a city, I'd take them all talk,"
> says Sabo. "I'd have one targeted at women 18 to 34, one for
> men 18 to 34, one for women 35 to 44 and one for men 35 to
> 44. And I'd make more money than I would with music."

Much as I'm a news/talk creature and would not want to run a music FM, this is ridiculous. First of all, women don't listen to talk, generally speaking. Being in the younger age bracket, I can say that I don't know any women 18-34 who listen to anyone talk except their friends. They like to talk, not listen to it. Besides, the programming aimed at them is sappy and boring - Satellite Sisters?!? Who wants to listen to that. There's nothing aiming at their level, and for biological reason.

I also don't see why men 18-34 and 35-44 couldn't be combined, as 18-44 is the target demo for most male-oriented FM talkers. I think lifestyle issues are the same for the entire age range. By trying to split the two, you run into the aforementioned issue womens' talk has: no one wants to sit around and talk about boring topics like what your toddler ate for breakfast or "womens empowerment". Zzzzzzz. By combing the two, you get the comedy and sex-driven talk that currently exists and works.
 
Women don't listen to talk...

> women don't listen to talk, generally speaking

Next you'll say women don't have the intelligence to understand talk radio.<P ID="signature">______________
• K5ZN</P>
 
Re: Women don't listen to talk...

> > women don't listen to talk, generally speaking
>
> Next you'll say women don't have the intelligence to
> understand talk radio.
>

I had always heard that their sensitivity to higher frequencies made it impossible for their ears to withstand the squeals of AM radio heterodynes. If the talk is on FM, what's the problem?
 
Re: Women don't listen to talk...

> I had always heard that their sensitivity to higher
> frequencies made it impossible for their ears to withstand
> the squeals of AM radio heterodynes.
If AM has heterodynes, does that mean FM has homodynes? :=)<P ID="signature">______________
• K5ZN</P>
 
> > "If I owned four FMs in a city, I'd take them all talk,"
> > says Sabo. "I'd have one targeted at women 18 to 34, one
> for
> > men 18 to 34, one for women 35 to 44 and one for men 35 to
>
> > 44. And I'd make more money than I would with music."
>
> Much as I'm a news/talk creature and would not want to run a
> music FM, this is ridiculous. First of all, women don't
> listen to talk, generally speaking. Being in the younger age
> bracket, I can say that I don't know any women 18-34 who
> listen to anyone talk except their friends. They like to
> talk, not listen to it.

But I'll bet plenty of them watch talk, entertainment news, etc. on TV. The problem any female-targeted talk radio outlet would have is that their audience is already used to watching the content instead of listening to it. When political talk was in its infancy, we didn't have 4 or 5 cable news channels carrying loads of opinion programming, we had CNN and CNN Headline News only and opinion content was minimal. The hot talk vibe simply doesn't translate to TV well at all, so it was able to succeed as a radio format with little TV competition.

Of course, I'm sure some of them do listen to morning shock jocks as well. If hot talk turns down the misogyny a few notches in the post-Stern area, the format will gain young female listeners. I'll predict that the West Coast Free FMs carrying Carolla (who already has somewhat of a female following from Loveline and won't be as crude as Howard) will capture that audience and get better morning ratings than they have in years.

Besides, the programming aimed at
> them is sappy and boring - Satellite Sisters?!? Who wants to
> listen to that. There's nothing aiming at their level, and
> for biological reason.
>
> I also don't see why men 18-34 and 35-44 couldn't be
> combined, as 18-44 is the target demo for most male-oriented
> FM talkers. I think lifestyle issues are the same for the
> entire age range. By trying to split the two, you run into
> the aforementioned issue womens' talk has: no one wants to
> sit around and talk about boring topics like what your
> toddler ate for breakfast or "womens empowerment". Zzzzzzz.
> By combing the two, you get the comedy and sex-driven talk
> that currently exists and works.
 
Re: Women don't listen to talk...

> > women don't listen to talk, generally speaking
>
> Next you'll say women don't have the intelligence to
> understand talk radio.

Your words, not mine. I'm speaking from facts only... please show me who mostly listens to talk radio based on ratings. Then check who's listening to Delilah, AC, HAC, or "A Bigger Mix and Better variety".
 
> But I'll bet plenty of them watch talk, entertainment news,
> etc. on TV. The problem any female-targeted talk radio
> outlet would have is that their audience is already used to
> watching the content instead of listening to it. When
> political talk was in its infancy, we didn't have 4 or 5
> cable news channels carrying loads of opinion programming,
> we had CNN and CNN Headline News only and opinion content
> was minimal. The hot talk vibe simply doesn't translate to
> TV well at all, so it was able to succeed as a radio format
> with little TV competition.

As I said below, it's not sexism but truth... more women are at home during the day watching TV. More men with sales and other jobs that keep them in their car listen to talk radio like Rush. Of course there are men at home and women in the car, but we're speaking in generalities here. Broadcasting = broad audience.

> Of course, I'm sure some of them do listen to morning shock
> jocks as well. If hot talk turns down the misogyny a few
> notches in the post-Stern area, the format will gain young
> female listeners.

Do they really care? They already have a decent stable of them who love to hate the programing. Should Michael Savage start giving white chocolate chip cookie recipes to attract more women? Should AC morning shows talk more about NFL games and hunting to attract men? Welcome to 2005, where we have 13,000 radio stations to fill, and niche formats abound.
 
> > But I'll bet plenty of them watch talk, entertainment
> news,
> > etc. on TV. The problem any female-targeted talk radio
> > outlet would have is that their audience is already used
> to
> > watching the content instead of listening to it. When
> > political talk was in its infancy, we didn't have 4 or 5
> > cable news channels carrying loads of opinion programming,
>
> > we had CNN and CNN Headline News only and opinion content
> > was minimal. The hot talk vibe simply doesn't translate
> to
> > TV well at all, so it was able to succeed as a radio
> format
> > with little TV competition.
>
> As I said below, it's not sexism but truth... more women are
> at home during the day watching TV. More men with sales and
> other jobs that keep them in their car listen to talk radio
> like Rush. Of course there are men at home and women in the
> car, but we're speaking in generalities here. Broadcasting =
> broad audience.
>
> > Of course, I'm sure some of them do listen to morning
> shock
> > jocks as well. If hot talk turns down the misogyny a few
> > notches in the post-Stern area, the format will gain young
>
> > female listeners.
>
> Do they really care? They already have a decent stable of
> them who love to hate the programing. Should Michael Savage
> start giving white chocolate chip cookie recipes to attract
> more women? Should AC morning shows talk more about NFL
> games and hunting to attract men? Welcome to 2005, where we
> have 13,000 radio stations to fill, and niche formats
> abound.
>

I'm not talking about the ones who would be interested in Michael Savage's cookie recipes (although didn't he actually write some sort of organic cookbook before becoming a radio host?), I'm talking about the young single 18-30 women who actually find dirty jokes to be funny and can listen to them without their kid asking embarrassing questions, but are still a bit put off by some of the things hot talk hosts say regarding women.

There is NO money in the cookie-recipe brand of talk. If there was, J-P's (well, Lincoln's now) hybrid talk/AC format from WLNK-Charlotte and formats like that one Minneapolis station would be the hot item right now. Of course, they're not.

However, a format that is still hot talk without as much of the "boobies**drool**" mentality would bring in the big bucks.
 
Women Talk Hosts - The Future

> > women don't listen to talk, generally speaking
>
> Next you'll say women don't have the intelligence to
> understand talk radio.

Not trying to answer for him directly, I think KJCB was pointing out that most talk radio is male-demo heavy. That's kind of the way it is.

But I've always been a firm believer that a compelling, interesting female host in ANY talk radio format would be a big winner. For me, as an armchair programmer, it'd be the holy grail.

And it looks like it took the growth of the liberal talk format to create what I've been looking for, for so long. Two of the biggest names in liberal talk are talented female hosts - Randi Rhodes and Stephanie Miller. That doesn't even include actress/activist Janeane Garofolo at night, and I didn't include her for a reason...both Stephanie and Randi are *veteran radio hosts*.

Stephanie had some measure of success in the Los Angeles market, where she worked at stations like KABC and KFI, and did a turn at a short-lived talk station targetting women (KTZN/710). All of this was before "liberal talk" became a growth industry nationally, at least to some degree.

Randi did some 10 years as a local talk host in Miami and West Palm Beach, FL, a lone non-conservative non-male voice on the airwaves. And by the time she got picked up by AAR, she'd strung together a number of top-rated books in afternoon drive at WPB's WJNO/1290.

Note, of course, that there are also conservative female "non-advice" hosts like Laura Ingraham and Tammy Bruce (another L.A. radio regular). But even though the conservative talk world is MUCH bigger than liberal talk in any measure you can bring up, from stations to hosts to listener base, Ms. Miller and Ms. Rhodes are much bigger within THEIR talk universe than Ms. Ingraham or Ms. Bruce are within theirs.

I haven't seen any numbers, but I'm curious how the current group of national women talkers do among female audiences.

-OA<P ID="signature">______________
Ohio Media Watch - <a target="_blank" href=http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com>http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com</a></P>
 
Re: Women don't listen to talk...

All this chatter about women and talk radio and not one mention of the two most successful women hosts: Dr. Laura and Dr. Joy Browne?

Laura may have a shrinking roster of stations but she still commands
a HUGE multiple of listeners than anyone on AAR.

Joy never has been as successful as Laura, but has been plugging away for decades!

The difference:
conservatives like Laura's stands, but not her.
Joys far more moderate (which means liberal to conservatives)
but far more likeable.

I have met both women and that seems to be their personal nature as well.

So two strong women doing talk that should largely appeal to women.

Where do they fit into the schemes for FM TALK targeted to women?
 
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