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Radio is dead...period!
- Thread starter Ward
- Start date
9
954
Guest
Re: Ownership Of The Airwaves?
I probably agree with Peppertree on most of his libertarian views, but not on ownership of the airwaves.
Much has already been written in this thread about how the bottom line has ruined radio and local content. I don't need to repeat it here.
Right to the airwaves are like a copyright or patent in that they are intangible, and such rights would not exist with a government regulatory system and courts to enforce it. Unless you want to consider the theoretical anarchistic/nihilistic system of having your police fight their police.
Granted, the government has f***** up the airwaves, as it does everything else it gets involved in, but getting the government completely out of broadcasting would make things even worse, not better. Imagine Clear Channel owning all stations in perpetuity, That's the direction we're going in, and what would happen if Peppertree gets his way.
EXAMPLES OF HOW MEDIA CONSOLIDATION IS DEPRIVING THE CONSUMER OF CHOICES!
<table width=400 order=1 bgcolor=white align=right hspace=10><tr><td>
Twenty years ago there were eight mainstream daily newspapers in southeast Florida. Now there are three.
Dade County:<UL>[*]Miami Herald (still active)
[*]Miami News (closed 12/31/88 beecause JOA with Miami Herald made it more profitable to close than to continue)
[/list]
Broward County:
<UL>[*]Hollywood Sun-Tattler (sold by Scripps Howard and then closed in 1990)
[*]Pompano Beach Sun-Sentinel (still active)
[*]Fort Lauderdale News (gradually merged with Sun-Sentinel)
[/list]
Palm Beach County:
<UL>[*]Boca Raton News (almost gone, then revived as a tabloid)
[*]Palm Beach Post (still active)
[*]Palm Beach Times (merged with Post?)</td></table>
The cable company here has gone under five names in the last 20 years, each time being taken over by a bigger company. It can't get any bigger or worse unless Microsoft buys Comcast. Aaaaarrrggggggggggh!
The Tribune Company owns the daily Sun-Sentinel, CityLink (so-called alternative newspaper), and the Jewish Journal (so-called Jewish newspaper), and a local TV station, among many other media. And they supply a news feed to NPR affiliate WXEL and the James Crystal stations.
One day I looked at Clear Channel's web site and counted 37 stations from the Keys to the Treasure Coast. Aaaaarrrggggggggggh!
I could go on but that's enough for now...
73s from 954
<P ID="signature">______________
<center><font color=green size="+1">South Florida Radio Pages -- November Radio News</font></center></P>
I probably agree with Peppertree on most of his libertarian views, but not on ownership of the airwaves.
Much has already been written in this thread about how the bottom line has ruined radio and local content. I don't need to repeat it here.
Right to the airwaves are like a copyright or patent in that they are intangible, and such rights would not exist with a government regulatory system and courts to enforce it. Unless you want to consider the theoretical anarchistic/nihilistic system of having your police fight their police.
Granted, the government has f***** up the airwaves, as it does everything else it gets involved in, but getting the government completely out of broadcasting would make things even worse, not better. Imagine Clear Channel owning all stations in perpetuity, That's the direction we're going in, and what would happen if Peppertree gets his way.
EXAMPLES OF HOW MEDIA CONSOLIDATION IS DEPRIVING THE CONSUMER OF CHOICES!
<table width=400 order=1 bgcolor=white align=right hspace=10><tr><td>
Twenty years ago there were eight mainstream daily newspapers in southeast Florida. Now there are three.
Dade County:<UL>[*]Miami Herald (still active)
[*]Miami News (closed 12/31/88 beecause JOA with Miami Herald made it more profitable to close than to continue)
[/list]
Broward County:
<UL>[*]Hollywood Sun-Tattler (sold by Scripps Howard and then closed in 1990)
[*]Pompano Beach Sun-Sentinel (still active)
[*]Fort Lauderdale News (gradually merged with Sun-Sentinel)
[/list]
Palm Beach County:
<UL>[*]Boca Raton News (almost gone, then revived as a tabloid)
[*]Palm Beach Post (still active)
[*]Palm Beach Times (merged with Post?)</td></table>
The cable company here has gone under five names in the last 20 years, each time being taken over by a bigger company. It can't get any bigger or worse unless Microsoft buys Comcast. Aaaaarrrggggggggggh!
The Tribune Company owns the daily Sun-Sentinel, CityLink (so-called alternative newspaper), and the Jewish Journal (so-called Jewish newspaper), and a local TV station, among many other media. And they supply a news feed to NPR affiliate WXEL and the James Crystal stations.
One day I looked at Clear Channel's web site and counted 37 stations from the Keys to the Treasure Coast. Aaaaarrrggggggggggh!
I could go on but that's enough for now...
73s from 954
<P ID="signature">______________
<center><font color=green size="+1">South Florida Radio Pages -- November Radio News</font></center></P>
Re: A happy medium?
I think that the risk of putting out the money should be borne by banks or investors and not the taxpayers. Banks will put the money up front. Banks will loan money with the frequency as collateral. Stations only have to come up with a down payment.
Half the market is a "favor." Stations don't need to get a favor. Ten percent discount is a fine premium. Over that is a subsidy. Stations don't need welfare nor does ANYONE else.
Perhaps some hardship exception can be made for stations with a weak balance sheet, that only mom and pop or struggling stations can take advantage of.
If so, then they must agree to operate for a minimum of five? years otherwise they may sell their frequency the next day and make a big profit on the taxpayer subsidy.
> All I'm saying is that it would be a company with billions
> of dollars worth of stations having to find the cash up
> front to purchase them. Because stations have spent millions
> to build a station, why not give the current licensees right
> of first refusal, selling it to them at half the fair market
> value which can be implimented over 10 to 20 years.
> Depending on circumstances (like if a single 'mom and pop'
> station is just getting by), the selling price may be
> lowered.
>
> > I like government assets sold to the private sector to be
> > used for profit.
>
> Yes...hopefully somebody will get the idea to sell
> AMTRAK...what a disaster
>
> > How much would the interstate system go for?
>
> Well, the old saying in the fifties was that it cost 'a
> million a mile'. With today's standards...about 10 million a
> mile...hehe...the debt could be paid off by selling the
> whole dang thing off!
>
> Radio-X
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
I think that the risk of putting out the money should be borne by banks or investors and not the taxpayers. Banks will put the money up front. Banks will loan money with the frequency as collateral. Stations only have to come up with a down payment.
Half the market is a "favor." Stations don't need to get a favor. Ten percent discount is a fine premium. Over that is a subsidy. Stations don't need welfare nor does ANYONE else.
Perhaps some hardship exception can be made for stations with a weak balance sheet, that only mom and pop or struggling stations can take advantage of.
If so, then they must agree to operate for a minimum of five? years otherwise they may sell their frequency the next day and make a big profit on the taxpayer subsidy.
> All I'm saying is that it would be a company with billions
> of dollars worth of stations having to find the cash up
> front to purchase them. Because stations have spent millions
> to build a station, why not give the current licensees right
> of first refusal, selling it to them at half the fair market
> value which can be implimented over 10 to 20 years.
> Depending on circumstances (like if a single 'mom and pop'
> station is just getting by), the selling price may be
> lowered.
>
> > I like government assets sold to the private sector to be
> > used for profit.
>
> Yes...hopefully somebody will get the idea to sell
> AMTRAK...what a disaster
>
> > How much would the interstate system go for?
>
> Well, the old saying in the fifties was that it cost 'a
> million a mile'. With today's standards...about 10 million a
> mile...hehe...the debt could be paid off by selling the
> whole dang thing off!
>
> Radio-X
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
Re: Ownership Of The Airwaves?
Ownership of a radio frequency is as tangible as ownership of a piece of land. American Indians did not believe it was possible to own land, until Europeans showed them their custom.
That frequency is there. You can not see it, but you can hear it and distinguish it from the frequency owned by other people.
Most of the physical properties of land can apply to a radio frequency.
> I probably agree with Peppertree on most of his libertarian
> views, but not on ownership of the airwaves.
>
> Much has already been written in this thread about how the
> bottom line has ruined radio and local content. I don't need
> to repeat it here.
>
> Right to the airwaves are like a copyright or patent in that
> they are intangible, and such rights would not exist with a
> government regulatory system and courts to enforce it.
> Unless you want to consider the theoretical
> anarchistic/nihilistic system of having your police fight
> their police.
>
> Granted, the government has f***** up the airwaves, as it
> does everything else it gets involved in, but getting the
> government completely out of broadcasting would make things
> even worse, not better. Imagine Clear Channel owning all
> stations in perpetuity, That's the direction we're going in,
> and what would happen if Peppertree gets his way.
>
> EXAMPLES OF HOW MEDIA CONSOLIDATION IS DEPRIVING THE
> CONSUMER OF CHOICES!
>
>
> Twenty years ago there were eight mainstream daily
> newspapers in southeast Florida. Now there are three.
>
> Dade County:Miami Herald (still active)
> Miami News (closed 12/31/88 beecause JOA with Miami Herald
> made it more profitable to close than to continue)
>
>
> Broward County:
> Hollywood Sun-Tattler (sold by Scripps Howard and then
> closed in 1990)
> Pompano Beach Sun-Sentinel (still active)
> Fort Lauderdale News (gradually merged with Sun-Sentinel)
>
>
> Palm Beach County:
> Boca Raton News (almost gone, then revived as a tabloid)
> Palm Beach Post (still active)
> Palm Beach Times (merged with Post?)
>
> The cable company here has gone under five names in the last
> 20 years, each time being taken over by a bigger company. It
> can't get any bigger or worse unless Microsoft buys Comcast.
> Aaaaarrrggggggggggh!
>
> The Tribune Company owns the daily Sun-Sentinel, CityLink
> (so-called alternative newspaper), and the Jewish Journal
> (so-called Jewish newspaper), and a local TV station, among
> many other media. And they supply a news feed to NPR
> affiliate WXEL and the James Crystal stations.
>
> One day I looked at Clear Channel's web site and counted 37
> stations from the Keys to the Treasure Coast.
> Aaaaarrrggggggggggh!
>
> I could go on but that's enough for now...
>
> 73s from 954
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
Ownership of a radio frequency is as tangible as ownership of a piece of land. American Indians did not believe it was possible to own land, until Europeans showed them their custom.
That frequency is there. You can not see it, but you can hear it and distinguish it from the frequency owned by other people.
Most of the physical properties of land can apply to a radio frequency.
> I probably agree with Peppertree on most of his libertarian
> views, but not on ownership of the airwaves.
>
> Much has already been written in this thread about how the
> bottom line has ruined radio and local content. I don't need
> to repeat it here.
>
> Right to the airwaves are like a copyright or patent in that
> they are intangible, and such rights would not exist with a
> government regulatory system and courts to enforce it.
> Unless you want to consider the theoretical
> anarchistic/nihilistic system of having your police fight
> their police.
>
> Granted, the government has f***** up the airwaves, as it
> does everything else it gets involved in, but getting the
> government completely out of broadcasting would make things
> even worse, not better. Imagine Clear Channel owning all
> stations in perpetuity, That's the direction we're going in,
> and what would happen if Peppertree gets his way.
>
> EXAMPLES OF HOW MEDIA CONSOLIDATION IS DEPRIVING THE
> CONSUMER OF CHOICES!
>
>
> Twenty years ago there were eight mainstream daily
> newspapers in southeast Florida. Now there are three.
>
> Dade County:Miami Herald (still active)
> Miami News (closed 12/31/88 beecause JOA with Miami Herald
> made it more profitable to close than to continue)
>
>
> Broward County:
> Hollywood Sun-Tattler (sold by Scripps Howard and then
> closed in 1990)
> Pompano Beach Sun-Sentinel (still active)
> Fort Lauderdale News (gradually merged with Sun-Sentinel)
>
>
> Palm Beach County:
> Boca Raton News (almost gone, then revived as a tabloid)
> Palm Beach Post (still active)
> Palm Beach Times (merged with Post?)
>
> The cable company here has gone under five names in the last
> 20 years, each time being taken over by a bigger company. It
> can't get any bigger or worse unless Microsoft buys Comcast.
> Aaaaarrrggggggggggh!
>
> The Tribune Company owns the daily Sun-Sentinel, CityLink
> (so-called alternative newspaper), and the Jewish Journal
> (so-called Jewish newspaper), and a local TV station, among
> many other media. And they supply a news feed to NPR
> affiliate WXEL and the James Crystal stations.
>
> One day I looked at Clear Channel's web site and counted 37
> stations from the Keys to the Treasure Coast.
> Aaaaarrrggggggggggh!
>
> I could go on but that's enough for now...
>
> 73s from 954
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
Re: A happy medium?
What about The Dolphin Expressway?
> > Surprised nobody has thought of naming rights at least.
> > "Traffic's Snarled on the Progressive Insurance Freeway".
> >
>
> Hahaha, love it - "A flipped semi causing backups at
> Cingular Wireless Exit 102"
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
What about The Dolphin Expressway?
> > Surprised nobody has thought of naming rights at least.
> > "Traffic's Snarled on the Progressive Insurance Freeway".
> >
>
> Hahaha, love it - "A flipped semi causing backups at
> Cingular Wireless Exit 102"
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
Re: A happy medium?
I always assumed that was referring to the species rather than the team, sort of like the Palmetto Expressway...please correct me if I'm wrong.
I also figured the Don Shula Expressway name was bestowed, rather than purchased or leased.
> What about The Dolphin Expressway?
>
> > > Surprised nobody has thought of naming rights at least.
> > > "Traffic's Snarled on the Progressive Insurance
> Freeway".
> > >
> >
> > Hahaha, love it - "A flipped semi causing backups at
> > Cingular Wireless Exit 102"
> >
>
<P ID="signature">______________
Need part-time or weekend production/air talent? Email me</P>
I always assumed that was referring to the species rather than the team, sort of like the Palmetto Expressway...please correct me if I'm wrong.
I also figured the Don Shula Expressway name was bestowed, rather than purchased or leased.
> What about The Dolphin Expressway?
>
> > > Surprised nobody has thought of naming rights at least.
> > > "Traffic's Snarled on the Progressive Insurance
> Freeway".
> > >
> >
> > Hahaha, love it - "A flipped semi causing backups at
> > Cingular Wireless Exit 102"
> >
>
<P ID="signature">______________
Need part-time or weekend production/air talent? Email me</P>
9
954
Guest
"I like government assets sold to the private sector"
> I think sale of government assets in general, is a fine way
> to pay off the national debt. Radio stations don't need
> welfare. It will be good for them to buy their frequency.
> They will appreciate it more (emotional not financial
> appreciation).
>
> I like government assets sold to the private sector to be
> used for profit.
Hear hear!
In Broward County, the school board is housed in one of the most valuable pieces of property in downtown Fort Lauderdale.
Before this edifice was built, they were on a large campus west of downtown, on the New River, an area now being developed with pricey condos.
Why can't the school board have offices on the site of one of the no-longer-needed schools that is now vacant.
73s from 954<P ID='signature'>______________
<center><font color=green size='+1'>South Florida Radio Pages -- November Radio News</font></center></P>
> I think sale of government assets in general, is a fine way
> to pay off the national debt. Radio stations don't need
> welfare. It will be good for them to buy their frequency.
> They will appreciate it more (emotional not financial
> appreciation).
>
> I like government assets sold to the private sector to be
> used for profit.
Hear hear!
In Broward County, the school board is housed in one of the most valuable pieces of property in downtown Fort Lauderdale.
Before this edifice was built, they were on a large campus west of downtown, on the New River, an area now being developed with pricey condos.
Why can't the school board have offices on the site of one of the no-longer-needed schools that is now vacant.
73s from 954<P ID='signature'>______________
<center><font color=green size='+1'>South Florida Radio Pages -- November Radio News</font></center></P>
Re: A happy medium?
> Goodwill is only worth a fraction of what a frequency would
> be worth. The write off is five years or less for Goodwill.
Since the frequency is a concession, it can not be capitalized. Goodwill can. Every station I have acquired or been part of an acquisition of has put the license "enjoyment" in a long term depreciation account, based on the expectation of renewal.
> Goodwill is only worth a fraction of what a frequency would
> be worth. The write off is five years or less for Goodwill.
Since the frequency is a concession, it can not be capitalized. Goodwill can. Every station I have acquired or been part of an acquisition of has put the license "enjoyment" in a long term depreciation account, based on the expectation of renewal.
Re: A happy medium?
Goodwill must be amortized over 60 months or less. I can give you the citation from GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Principles) if you like. I know of no exceptions. I had to know that to pass the CPA exam.
If frequencies become private they, perhaps, will not be depreciable because they are a renewable natural asset such as land. They would be carried at cost with no offset for depreciation.
This is my opinion. I know of no principle to cover the expensing of a radio frequency. You can be sure that there will be one, if frequencies ever become a private asset.
Steven Green
> Since the frequency is a concession, it can not be
> capitalized. Goodwill can. Every station I have acquired or
> been part of an acquisition of has put the license
> "enjoyment" in a long term depreciation account, based on
> the expectation of renewal.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
Goodwill must be amortized over 60 months or less. I can give you the citation from GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Principles) if you like. I know of no exceptions. I had to know that to pass the CPA exam.
If frequencies become private they, perhaps, will not be depreciable because they are a renewable natural asset such as land. They would be carried at cost with no offset for depreciation.
This is my opinion. I know of no principle to cover the expensing of a radio frequency. You can be sure that there will be one, if frequencies ever become a private asset.
Steven Green
> Since the frequency is a concession, it can not be
> capitalized. Goodwill can. Every station I have acquired or
> been part of an acquisition of has put the license
> "enjoyment" in a long term depreciation account, based on
> the expectation of renewal.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
Re: Licences are intangible assets.
> Goodwill must be amortized over 60 months or less. I can
> give you the citation from GAAP (Generally Accepted
> Accounting Principles) if you like. I know of no exceptions.
> I had to know that to pass the CPA exam.
I said that it is treated "like" goodwill in that it is not written off. Licences are handled as "intangible assets," a separate class, and kept at book value unless there is a significant change which materially affects the value of said intangible.
> If frequencies become private they, perhaps, will not be
> depreciable because they are a renewable natural asset such
> as land. They would be carried at cost with no offset for
> depreciation.
There is "reasonable expectation" of ongoing renewal. That makes them non-depreciable.
Here is part of a 10/K filing of a broadcast company....
Accounting for Intangibles and Impairment
Goodwill and other intangibles with indefinite lives, such as broadcast licenses, are not amortized and are tested for impairment annually. The television and radio broadcast licenses have an indefinite life because the Company expects to renew them and renewals are routinely granted with little cost, provided that the licensee has complied with the applicable rules and regulations of the Federal Communications Commission ("FCC"). Over the last five years, all television and radio licenses that have been up for renewal have been renewed and there has been no compelling challenge to the license renewal. The technology used in broadcasting is not expected to be replaced by another technology in the foreseeable future. Therefore, the television and radio broadcast licenses and the related cash flows are expected to continue indefinitely. These indefinite cash flows indicate that the broadcast licenses have an indefinite useful life. Therefore, the license would not be amortized until its useful life is deemed to no longer be indefinite. The licenses, other indefinite-lived intangible assets and goodwill are tested annually for impairment, or more frequently if circumstances indicate a possible impairment exists in accordance with paragraph 17 of Statement of Financial Accounting Standards ("SFAS") No. 142 and the Emerging Issues Task Force published Issue 02-07, "Unit of Accounting for Testing Impairment of Indefinite-lived Intangible Assets" ("EITF 02-07").
Goodwill is allocated to various reporting units, which are either the operating segments or one reporting level below the operating segment. For purposes of performing the impairment test of goodwill as required by SFAS 142, we established the following reporting units: Television, Radio,
> This is my opinion. I know of no principle to cover the
> expensing of a radio frequency. You can be sure that there
> will be one, if frequencies ever become a private asset.
They are not expensed. They are not depreciated. They are non-depriciable intangable assets.
> Goodwill must be amortized over 60 months or less. I can
> give you the citation from GAAP (Generally Accepted
> Accounting Principles) if you like. I know of no exceptions.
> I had to know that to pass the CPA exam.
I said that it is treated "like" goodwill in that it is not written off. Licences are handled as "intangible assets," a separate class, and kept at book value unless there is a significant change which materially affects the value of said intangible.
> If frequencies become private they, perhaps, will not be
> depreciable because they are a renewable natural asset such
> as land. They would be carried at cost with no offset for
> depreciation.
There is "reasonable expectation" of ongoing renewal. That makes them non-depreciable.
Here is part of a 10/K filing of a broadcast company....
Accounting for Intangibles and Impairment
Goodwill and other intangibles with indefinite lives, such as broadcast licenses, are not amortized and are tested for impairment annually. The television and radio broadcast licenses have an indefinite life because the Company expects to renew them and renewals are routinely granted with little cost, provided that the licensee has complied with the applicable rules and regulations of the Federal Communications Commission ("FCC"). Over the last five years, all television and radio licenses that have been up for renewal have been renewed and there has been no compelling challenge to the license renewal. The technology used in broadcasting is not expected to be replaced by another technology in the foreseeable future. Therefore, the television and radio broadcast licenses and the related cash flows are expected to continue indefinitely. These indefinite cash flows indicate that the broadcast licenses have an indefinite useful life. Therefore, the license would not be amortized until its useful life is deemed to no longer be indefinite. The licenses, other indefinite-lived intangible assets and goodwill are tested annually for impairment, or more frequently if circumstances indicate a possible impairment exists in accordance with paragraph 17 of Statement of Financial Accounting Standards ("SFAS") No. 142 and the Emerging Issues Task Force published Issue 02-07, "Unit of Accounting for Testing Impairment of Indefinite-lived Intangible Assets" ("EITF 02-07").
Goodwill is allocated to various reporting units, which are either the operating segments or one reporting level below the operating segment. For purposes of performing the impairment test of goodwill as required by SFAS 142, we established the following reporting units: Television, Radio,
> This is my opinion. I know of no principle to cover the
> expensing of a radio frequency. You can be sure that there
> will be one, if frequencies ever become a private asset.
They are not expensed. They are not depreciated. They are non-depriciable intangable assets.
A
allisonmarie
Guest
Re: What's stopping the smaller companies from trying?
> > Unfortunately, I've never thought of radio as a safe
> > business. Even being a jock is a huge risk, as your next
> > Arbitron could be the end of your career. I just wish
> some
> > owner, somewhere, had the belly for taking a chance.
> >
>
>
> How about every regular poster on this board throws in a
> thousand bucks, we'll form an LLC, buy a station like WFTL
> and do just that ;-)
>
I'll put in $5000.00> Just as long as 6999 others do the same! $35 Million ought to do the trick for a decent AM station! 610 KFRC in San Francisco recently sold for that amount! Anyone know where we can find the other 6999 investers at? But what about operating capital?
> > Unfortunately, I've never thought of radio as a safe
> > business. Even being a jock is a huge risk, as your next
> > Arbitron could be the end of your career. I just wish
> some
> > owner, somewhere, had the belly for taking a chance.
> >
>
>
> How about every regular poster on this board throws in a
> thousand bucks, we'll form an LLC, buy a station like WFTL
> and do just that ;-)
>
I'll put in $5000.00> Just as long as 6999 others do the same! $35 Million ought to do the trick for a decent AM station! 610 KFRC in San Francisco recently sold for that amount! Anyone know where we can find the other 6999 investers at? But what about operating capital?
- Status