Radio Is Dead? Really? What are we really saying?

[davideduardo]

Forgot to mention that. It takes about five weeks for the research to kick in. But he's talking about before that. And I'm not sticking my neck out on a song I haven't heard.

The most I would ever commit to for an un-heard song is to give it a listen. Nothing gets on the air anywhere I have worked without being listened to, often by a music committee.

 

[BOZ Profit]

Songs don't get tested before becoming new adds. You have to play them 100 to 125 times for the average listener to hear them even 5 times, and that's about the point at which a listener has either bonded with or rejected a new song.

We do have lots of support for adds, such as the trades, the airplay monitors and our own networking. So if we are uncertain, we can watch other stations before making the add. And sometimes songs we did not think had potential get adds at stations we respect, so we take another listen.

One thing most of us ignore is the whining from the record ducks. There are so many ways they can try to play us... my "favorite" is "... if I don't bring this song home, I am going to be fired". The worst one is when the duck asks to drop a previous song by their artist which is working great so we can play the unfamiliar new song only because it has been 12 weeks since the good song came out.

Forgot to mention that. It takes about five weeks for the research to kick in. But he's talking about before that. And I'm not sticking my neck out on a song I haven't heard.

There's a new artist who is a very high priority at the label. Lots of money being spent. They say it's the next big thing. There was a showcase, and I couldn't make it. They did one just for me. And yes, I see the potential of the artist, and I made my commitment. When I commit to an add, that's a big commitment of our time, prestige, and air signal. It's a serious decision. They respect that we're very careful in making this decision. And hopefully we're right about this one.

That still does not answer my question of what songs have you turned away despite real pressure (not the "I'll lose my job" tactic) but REAL pressure from a label... the kind that puts the extras that the label provides you in the balance.

Will I get another answer that is a non-answer?

 

[BOZ Profit]

The most I would ever commit to for an un-heard song is to give it a listen. Nothing gets on the air anywhere I have worked without being listened to, often by a music committee.

I am not suggesting the song gets added without a listen... the hypothetical is that it is a good song, you heard it and you liked it too... just hypothetical for the idea I suggested. This isn't rocket science and I am not going to hold anyone to what they answer here... ITS HYPOTHETICAL for a fun discussion. This non-committal suggests something deeper. Something about real responsibility or lack of...

 

[TheBigA]

That still does not answer my question of what songs have you turned away despite real pressure (not the "I'll lose my job" tactic) but REAL pressure from a label... the kind that puts the extras that the label provides you in the balance.

To be honest, they can't do that. But sure, I turn away lots of songs. And a few weeks later, the same people are back with another song. And if I was wrong, I admit it. Those extras you talk about are unimportant.

You want me to give specific songs, and you have to understand that I can't do that on a public message board.

 

[TheBigA]

This non-committal suggests something deeper. Something about real responsibility or lack of...

There's nothing "deeper" than you're seeing real life decision making in action. It's subjective, and it's specific. If you can't give me the record, I can't tell you how I'll react. I think that's the right answer.

 

[BOZ Profit]

To be honest, they can't do that. But sure, I turn away lots of songs. And a few weeks later, the same people are back with another song. And if I was wrong, I admit it.

You want me to give specific songs, and you have to understand that I can't do that on a public message board.

Well, if you turn them away, I'm sure they have a memory of who helped them out... and when you need something they help you because you helped them. So maybe they don't take things away, but they certainly remember who's got their back...

I didn't realize you have a strict confidentiality agreement.. I mean, we know the songs you accept publicly because you play them. Who cares about the ones you don't, besides the artist themselves but they already know.. because you aren't playing them! lol.

 

[davideduardo]

That still does not answer my question of what songs have you turned away despite real pressure (not the "I'll lose my job" tactic) but REAL pressure from a label... the kind that puts the extras that the label provides you in the balance.

Will I get another answer that is a non-answer?

The extras a label can provide are pretty minimal these days because the labels are performing so poorly. The era of getting "presents" credit is nearly over, and does not seem to impress listeners any more. In larger markets you can sometimes get an artist to do a private concert in a smaller venue for listeners, but those deals usually are done with the artist's management, not the label. Giving away CDs is not do much value as that is not today's preferred format...

 

[BOZ Profit]

There's nothing "deeper" than you're seeing real life decision making in action. It's subjective, and it's specific. If you can't give me the record, I can't tell you how I'll react. I think that's the right answer.

The idea was a song that was specifically about a brand, the brand paid the artist to record the song. HYPOTHETICALLY it's a good song. You like it. It's the number 1 download on iTunes , the YouTube video has 20 million views in 3 days and it's climbing... You hear it on the competition and now YOUR listeners are clambering for you to play it.

So, the issue is NOT if it sounds good. The issue is do YOU (not legal, not the President of the USA, not your Grand Ma) decide to play it even though it is essentially free publicity for the brand in the song. FORGET the subjective decision of if you like it... YOU DO. Liking it is not the issue. Again.. the issue is do you play a song that is essentially a blatant, albeit tasteful and listenable, ad disguised as a song, a good song, for a brand that is not already paying you for ad time.

SIMPLE. Get out of the box. Play.

 

[davideduardo]

Well, if you turn them away, I'm sure they have a memory of who helped them out... and when you need something they help you because you helped them. So maybe they don't take things away, but they certainly remember who's got their back...

Record promoters live and die by the next release. Even if you try to chase them away, they come back anyway. My favorite one fom the late 90's was the answering machine message of the MD at KPWR in LA which said, "if.you are a record promoter, you can hang up now".

 

[BOZ Profit]

Record promoters live and die by the next release.

Exactly. And when they have something you want, or have access to something you want.. but you didn't help them recently... well.. they won't be helping you without a commitment to help them with their next release... are you flat out denying these things happen?

 

[TheBigA]

Again.. the issue is do you play a song that is essentially a blatant, albeit tasteful and listenable, ad for a brand that is not already paying you for ad time.

My gut says no. If it is getting that much attention, we can talk about it on the morning show without making an official add.

But I don't make musical decisions based on my personal taste. When I hear the song (which I haven't, regardless of what you say), I don't think of myself as the audience. I think of our P1s. Will THEY like it. Those are different things. There have been songs that have been big YouTube phenomenons that OTA didn't play. There have been American Idols who couldn't get OTA airplay. That's the subjective nature of how things are. I've had the conversation that 35 million people voted for this singer, and that's why you should add this song. And I said no. If they voted, then the singer doesn't need my airplay. I've got other artists who have better songs who do.

 

[davideduardo]

Exactly. And when they have something you want, or have access to something you want.. but you didn't help them recently... well.. they won't be helping you without a commitment to help them with their next release... are you flat out denying these things happen?

There isn't much that a record promoter has to offer these days. It is just "play my song" over and over. And since at least 9 out of 10 songs are not hits they have little memory over th ones you did not play or the ones you did not go on early.

 

[BOZ Profit]

My gut says no. If it is getting that much attention, we can talk about it on the morning show without making an official add.

But I don't make musical decisions based on my personal taste. When I hear the song (which I haven't, regardless of what you say), I don't think of myself as the audience. I think of our P1s. Will THEY like it. Those are different things. There have been songs that have been big YouTube phenomenons that OTA didn't play. There have been American Idols who couldn't get OTA airplay. That's the subjective nature of how things are. I've had the conversation that 35 million people voted for this singer, and that's why you should add this song. And I said no. If they voted, then the singer doesn't need my airplay. I've got other artists who have better songs who do.

So... after weeks of the song being "out".. and you have time to test it with your P1s.. and THEY LIKE IT, no.. THEY LOVE IT! .. ugh, I can't believe I have to spell it out like I do with my kids... do you then play it?

 

[TheBigA]

So... after weeks of the song being "out".. and you have time to test it with your P1s.. and THEY LIKE IT, no.. THEY LOVE IT! .. ugh, I can't believe I have to spell it out like I do with my kids... do you then play it?

Maybe. There are other people to consult as well. There are no hypotheticals in radio. You're trying to get me to give you a formula answer, and there isn't one. Not from me, anyway.

 

[BOZ Profit]

There isn't much that a record promoter has to offer these days. It is just "play my song" over and over. And since at least 9 out of 10 songs are not hits they have little memory over th ones you did not play or the ones you did not go on early.

I actually really do understand that.. in any case, my questions really is not getting a proper answer. But that's okay. lol.

There really is less need for the 'record promoters' when there are online services for stations to choose from anyway.

 

[BOZ Profit]

Maybe. There are other people to consult as well. There are no hypotheticals in radio. You're trying to get me to give you a formula answer, and there isn't one. Not from me, anyway.

No, all I am trying to understand is if you would refuse to play the song (even though it was popular among your listeners) for the simple fact that a brand would be getting free advertising from the station. It is a simple "principled" answer... yes, you would play it because the listeners crave it, or no, you would not play it because the station was not getting paid from the brand.

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[TheBigA]

There really is less need for the 'record promoters' when there are online services for stations to choose from anyway.

There are indie promoters who work them too. Lots of them.

 

[TheBigA]

It is a simple "principled" answer... yes, you would play it because the listeners crave it, or no, you would not play it because the station was not getting paid from the brand.

Nothing more, nothing less.

The famous answer is "I'll get back to you." That is the formula answer.

 

[BOZ Profit]

The famous answer is "I'll get back to you."

Why? Why so non-committal about something that isn't even REALLY happening? And even if it did end up happening... you would have more info to make a realistic decision. So maybe the real answer would be different because your P1s didn't like it..

Maybe you should be in politics. Or at least you know where you can go if radio stops working out for you. lol

 

[BOZ Profit]

Hypothetical:

McDonald's tells Taylor Swift: "we're going to give $200,000 to a charity of your choice and $50,000 in gift cards that you can send to your fans if you write and record one song that is only about us and how great we are. It has to be a pop sensation. It has to stay on the charts for 6 months."

For argument sake: McDonald's cuts their $2,000,000 ad budget (not real numbers.. let's not get nit picky!) for "pop radio stations" to $250,000.

Taylor Swift records the song. Her fans love it. It's the most requested song for weeks, it's on her new album and they are selling and being downloaded. The P1s love it, can't get enough of it. She performs it on all the TV talk shows... It's essentially THE song of the year.

Do you play it and keep it in a tight rotation for 6 months?

Yes or No.