Radio is "not a viable business"

[Mikey Radio]

No, Rush made his career by appealing to the values of his core listeners. He also was “at the right place at the right time.” since he appeared around the time of the demise of music on AM.

Not to turn this thread political, but there are plenty who'd disagree with you on this -or at least the particular wording you've used. Limbaugh was a showman, plain and simple - and rather than "appealing to the values of his core listeners" as you've stated, many would use words like "exploited". No one can deny Rush's popularity and ratings, and no one can deny the "shot in the arm" he gave to the AM band at the time. That said, he also spewed a lot of untruths, hatred and vitriol, made a lot of outright false claims or in the best of times exaggerations. Again, he was a showman and he knew how to stir up his base. There are plenty of stories out there, including books, chronicling people who'd had close friends and relatives that were political moderates, but once they'd been exposed to Limbaugh's program for a time (in some cases because they had long commutes or drove a lot for work and his program was the only spoken word they found to listen to), they'd become almost radicalized, and their trust and belief in his words was almost cult-like.

Problem is, while some saw through his shtick and his on-air antics, many others didn't. As discussed elsewhere on RadioDiscussions, Rush Limbaugh the person wasn't nearly as conservative and far right as his on-air persona. He was an entertainer - But many didn't see through or understand that, and it put the republican party on-course to what it's become today, and it spun off a bunch of other talk hosts who did actually believe in the stuff they were spewing forth, and aimed to be "more Rush than Rush".

 

[TheBigA]

Unlike radio stations, used cars have come up in value the past few years.

If it has low milage, is a desirable model, and has been restored to its original condition. Otherwise, no.

But you had the use of that car for the time you owned it, which provided valuable transportation.

 

[Mediafrog+]

Say for example you bought a new car in 2004, and sold it today. What percentage of its value would it retain?

Nobody buys a car with the expectation that it will appreciate in value. Not sure what point you are trying to make. In 2004 purchasers of radio stations were expecting values to go up up up.

Unlike radio stations, used cars have come up in value the past few years.

That’s because new cars have become obscenely expensive, as evidenced by the proliferation of six, seven, eight year loans. Cheaper to buy a late model used car where someone else has taken the biggest depreciation hit.

 

[tbolt909]

Say for example you bought a new car in 2004, and sold it today. What percentage of its value would it retain?

Apples & Oranges. A car is expected to depreciate. A business is expected to grow revenue (or at least tread water). Sure, some folks made money in Radio and bailed out with a Golden Parachute. Others got stuck with a wrecked automobile smoldering in flames...

 

[TheBigA]

Nobody buys a car with the expectation that it will appreciate in value. Not sure what point you are trying to make. In 2004 purchasers of radio stations were expecting values to go up up up.

They obviously bought them for the wrong reason. If the station came with property, the property values have gone up. The money Cumulus paid for its stations in LA and DC was more than made up by the sale of tower property. If you buy a radio station, you get the use of that station and the money it generates as long as you own it. Just like a car. If you invest in the station, grow the business, enlarge the revenue stream beyond what it was when you bought it, then you can expect value to go up.

Apples & Oranges. A car is expected to depreciate. A business is expected to grow revenue (or at least tread water).

If you don't work to GROW that business, the revenue won't grow. You need to water grass if you expect it to grow. Same with any tangible investment.

I'm not sure the used car analogy is akin to station ownership -

See above. The common wisdom is that people overpaid for radio in the late 90s and early 2000s. When you overpay, that's on you.

 

[Mikey Radio]

Say for example you bought a new car in 2004, and sold it today. What percentage of its value would it retain?

I'm not sure the used car analogy is akin to station ownership - especially when, not too long ago it was possible, and often the goal, for someone or a group to buy stations, make money on them while they had them, perhaps sink some capital into upgrades or at least solid maintenance over time, with the idea that when they were ready to get out or sell, they'd get their investment back several times over.

When buying a new car, it's relatively common knowledge that the value of said car takes a huge hit the minute you drive it off the lot, and except in very rare cases, never achieves that value again. It's why companies like CarMax have had so much success - you can get a lot of used car for your $$, often being able to transfer what's left of the original factory warranty to the new owner if the vehicle is still young enough.

 

[CTListener]

Nothing saves radio -- NOTHING -- unless advertising rebounds. And everything is pointing to advertising as an industry shrinking, as more and more consumer-oriented businesses find they don't need to advertise to attract customers.They can do so by word of mouth, reputation, and just being the only game in town. Everyone knows what Walmart has and what it sells that stuff for. The only advertising it has to do is in the months before opening a new location. After that, it's no longer necessary. Likewise, the big online businesses don't need to advertise much, and when they do, they advertise online, where they're not reaching a bunch of old folks and technophobes who will never be customers. I'd look for the advertising industry to be shedding thousands of jobs in the coming years, too.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

I think we all agree that the Audacy stations are profitable, it's just the debt burden was impossible to sustain. What we don't know is are the divested Bell stations in the same condition.

Most of those Bell stations were in smaller markets. Those are the kinds of towns where relationships need to be built between the radio station and local advertisers, and where the connection between the station and the audience makes it feel like it's part of the community.

Those Bell stations were not like that. You could tell the programming was parachuted in from elsewhere (like Toronto) and they did not feel local at all. I've personally driven through a couple of areas where two Bell stations were receivable from adjacent markets at once, and they were both playing the same songs in the same order, just half an hour or 45 minutes apart from each other. Not even a voicetrack in many cases, just music, generic sounding imaging, spots.

I would imagine the new owners of the divested clusters will be closer to their communities and give the stations more personalized attention than that. The giant Bell company that counts its revenue in the billions, and is busy building out 5G service for its lucrative mobile business, probably could not have cared less about little radio stations in those markets. For smaller companies, they should be more a lot more important to their business models.

 

[CTListener]

Most of those Bell stations were in smaller markets. Those are the kinds of towns where relationships need to be built between the radio station and local advertisers, and where the connection between the station and the audience makes it feel like it's part of the community.

Those Bell stations were not like that. You could tell the programming was parachuted in from elsewhere (like Toronto) and they did not feel local at all. I've personally driven through a couple of areas where two Bell stations were receivable from adjacent markets at once, and they were both playing the same songs in the same order, just half an hour or 45 minutes apart from each other.

Regional hits are scarce, bordering on nonexistent, these days. What makes you think trying to "localize" the playlist will attract listeners rather than drive them to the researched and tested music on the competition's stations?

 

[Theater of My Mind]

Regional hits are scarce, bordering on nonexistent, these days. What makes you think trying to "localize" the playlist will attract listeners rather than drive them to the researched and tested music on the competition's stations?

Who said anything about localizing the playlist?

 

[CTListener]

Who said anything about localizing the playlist?

How else do you customize the station to the community besides increasing the DJ gab, which today's listeners by and large hate? Drop liners between songs saying "Playing today's best country just for you, Podunk!" That's what the top country station up here does three times an hour, plugging in the names of every town in the coverage area. Is that what keeps them No. 1, and not the playlist?

 

[TheBigA]

Those Bell stations were not like that. You could tell the programming was parachuted in from elsewhere (like Toronto) and they did not feel local at all.

Keep in mind that a lot of small US owners do the exact same thing, using 24/7 satellite delivered formats from Westwood One, outside VT from various individuals and services around the country. They have no choice because the revenues can't pay for the expenses. With the internet, even small local owners such as Vista can syndicate their own hosts around their stations.

The #2 radio company in Canada is Stingray. They own over 100 stations, and network a lot of their programming around their stations. I don't expect to see the former Bell stations hiring a lot of local staff. If they do, they won't get paid as much as people who work at Bell.

 

[RadioFan2J3]

Viewers of YouTube use the 'skip ad' feature.

My experiences now with You Tube ads is that typically the first ad in a group cannot be skipped, but the second ad can be usually skipped.

Annoying even more are the You Tube ads over 30 seconds at the beginning of a You Tube video.

 

[TheBigA]

My experiences now with You Tube ads is that typically the first ad in a group cannot be skipped, but the second ad can be usually skipped. Annoying even more are the You Tube ads over 30 seconds at the beginning of a You Tube video.

At some point, this will all be put behind a paywall.

 

[leethalweapon]

Unlike radio stations, used cars have come up in value the past few years.

This is explained in part on simple supply and demand. In Ausralia and a lot of import only countries, that is because the availability of new cars has stalled dew to the effects of Covid era manufacture slowdowns. It have only been in the last 6-12 month that the heat is slightly off in the used car sector.

 

[gr8oldies]

Not to turn this thread political, but there are plenty who'd disagree with you on this -or at least the particular wording you've used. Limbaugh was a showman, plain and simple - and rather than "appealing to the values of his core listeners" as you've stated, many would use words like "exploited". No one can deny Rush's popularity and ratings, and no one can deny the "shot in the arm" he gave to the AM band at the time. That said, he also spewed a lot of untruths, hatred and vitriol, made a lot of outright false claims or in the best of times exaggerations. Again, he was a showman and he knew how to stir up his base. There are plenty of stories out there, including books, chronicling people who'd had close friends and relatives that were political moderates, but once they'd been exposed to Limbaugh's program for a time (in some cases because they had long commutes or drove a lot for work and his program was the only spoken word they found to listen to), they'd become almost radicalized, and their trust and belief in his words was almost cult-like.

Problem is, while some saw through his shtick and his on-air antics, many others didn't. As discussed elsewhere on RadioDiscussions, Rush Limbaugh the person wasn't nearly as conservative and far right as his on-air persona. He was an entertainer - But many didn't see through or understand that, and it put the republican party on-course to what it's become today, and it spun off a bunch of other talk hosts who did actually believe in the stuff they were spewing forth, and aimed to be "more Rush than Rush".

Rush took his top 40 training and used it in talk successfully.
He wasn't the only game in town though, one can look at Randy Michaels' work at WKRC and "teaching the Grand Old Lady to dance" on WLW and in other markets. WLS had a variety of hosts and political philosophies in 1989, still sounding very contemporary. Station owners/GMs eventually thought "if we can't get Rush, we can get somebody who says what Rush says.".

 

[davideduardo]

Funny thing is the people who say radio is no longer viable are those who seem not to make it in this business. It's much tougher now but I will say the cost of running a radio station can be a fraction of what it was years ago. Stations have the ability to adjust to the financial response of the coverage area.

To me, the key is in the question "would you buy a radio station today?".

After sixty-some years in the industry, there is no case where I would be interested in buying or partnering for a station. I see a future in decline for ad-sponsored media. And I can invest money in a mutual fund and get a better return without the work!

 

[davideduardo]

Rush took his top 40 training and used it in talk successfully.
He wasn't the only game in town though, one can look at Randy Michaels' work at WKRC and "teaching the Grand Old Lady to dance" on WLW and in other markets. WLS had a variety of hosts and political philosophies in 1989, still sounding very contemporary. Station owners/GMs eventually thought "if we can't get Rush, we can get somebody who says what Rush says.".

The idea that Rush was lying is often tossed out to invalidate his perspectives. I'm reminded of gatherings a group of us in media in Ecuador would have after a major local news event, such as a coup d'etat or big demonstrations or national strikes. We'd look at Time, Newsweek, AF Reuters, Prensa Latina, TASS and other news foreign services and publications. Each had a different perspective on the same events. None was wrong, but none fully covered the actual events and causes that we, locally, had seen.

Police detectives know that eyewitness accounts can be magnificently varied and inaccurate. A lot has to do with what each of us wants to see.

 

[Mikey Radio]

The idea that Rush was lying is often tossed out to invalidate his perspectives. I'm reminded of gatherings a group of us in media in Ecuador would have after a major local news event, such as a coup d'etat or big demonstrations or national strikes. We'd look at Time, Newsweek, AF Reuters, Prensa Latina, TASS and other news services and publications. Each had a different perspective on the same events. None was wrong, but none fully covered the actual events and causes that we, locally, had seen.

Police detectives know that eyewitness accounts can be magnificently varied and inaccurate. A lot has to do with what each of us wants to see.

Fair, but in Rush's case, many things he said can and have been proven to be blatantly and patently false. It was more (and much different) than just his simply offering a different perspective or outlook. That, of course, doesn't invalidate every word that came out of his mouth and I don't think I've seen anyone say the man was "always lying" or that not a single word he uttered was true - as that would not be fair or accurate; but the folks that hung on his every word and allowed themselves to be spoonfed misinformation and inaccuracies without doing their own research or fact checking, and let that be their guide in politics and when going to the voting booth were done a massive disservice at times.

 

[Voicetrack of Reason]

Getting back on topic...as another poster mentioned, Bell is a lousy operator. Stations often operate for months/years at reduced power. They closed sales offices in U.S border markets. Programming on once successful FM signals sounds canned and basically bush league. Not exactly stellar or visionary operators.