Radio One dealing...KROI fate?

[BamaTX]

Well every time i tune in to that Joke i hear tons of commercials so you may be talking out of your ass...

Commercials =/= success. So it may be you who is talking "out of your ass". For all we know, the translator could be selling at a loss in hopes of getting customers to stick. Given the lack of social media interaction on their sites, I'd be willing to bet that buyers are still in the honeymoon stage. Sooner or later, they'll realize that the translator's shortcomings aren't worth their time and money and bail to greener pastures.

I will say that the people managing the station seem to be way in over their head. I don't know spanish, but from what I am told, the station sounds like a small market station. The music selection is too broad, even for Regional Mexican standards. Based on the pattern we have seen, the translator will either get leased out or another format will arrive in about a year or so to "rinse and repeat".

 

[davideduardo]

You still think that after 14 years, one huge recession (possibly going into another one), and several layoffs later that the same issues will arise? The radio market today isn't the same as it was in 2005. I think everyone in radio knows that they are more disposable than ever before and falling in line is a must.

Avoiding an opportunity because of what happened a decade and a half ago just doesn't make sense to me.

Individual cultures, and particularly the contrast between different minority cultures, do not change over a period of a few years. Those things tend to take entire generations to change, not years.

It does not matter whether there was a recession, whether the stations were making money or who was the manager or HR director.

 

[davideduardo]

different people a different time i am surprised you would assume that they would not be able to adjust to the cultural difference

Cultural changes, as I mentioned in another message, do not change of short periods. Generations, yes. A few years, no.

 

[davideduardo]

I'd be willing to bet this pig will squeal much louder from its new site.

The old site was built on the cheap, using an existing TV tower, and a full-wave antenna for maximum operational efficiency. Licensed TPO is just 9kW.

I'd be willing to bet a pattern study was commissioned for the new tower they're building. They're also planning to use a half-wave antenna, when there are zero downward radiation concerns at the new site, much like their KZMJ in DFW does. I didn't look closely at KZMJ, but the 55kW TPO pretty much gives it away.

You know as well as I do that there's no such thing as a non-directional FM antenna. Stations are licensed that way on paper, but the way you mount the antenna has a profound impact on coverage in a desired direction. I'd be willing to bet this was modeled extensively, and will out punch its weight class to the north in a way the old site never did.

There are ways to optimize FM installations. The most effective single step is mounting on a pole at the top of a tower and not on the side of the tower. On the other hand, if one wants to create a directional effect, mounting on the side of a tower that faces the population also has a directionalizing effect, as doe mounting at the "V" when that points a "downtown" of the market. Even the brand of the antenna has an effect, as well as the spacing and number of elements. There used to be more FM towers that used Phillystran for the top guy wire to prevent the guys re-radiating. Also non-wave-length multiples in the upper guys has been used to avoid re-radiation.

Some of us who were home brewing FM stations back in the 60's came up with other tricks. I liked mechanical tilt of the whole array when the center of radiation was very high and the population right below. A US example is the mountain site over Albuquerque. In my case, it was a site about 3,000 feet over the market right to one side of that market and at nearly 13,000 feet AMSL. My other trick was to have no horizontal radiation.

There is still the fact that the new site is way to the SW of the center of the market and it won't cover well the northern population areas.

 

[2Speakers]

Any word on how construction is going and a possible target date for hitting on the air?

Haven't heard in a while. Saw a picture of what looked like the tower foundation being poured about a month ago.

 

[2Speakers]

There are ways to optimize FM installations. The most effective single step is mounting on a pole at the top of a tower and not on the side of the tower. On the other hand, if one wants to create a directional effect, mounting on the side of a tower that faces the population also has a directionalizing effect, as doe mounting at the "V" when that points a "downtown" of the market. Even the brand of the antenna has an effect, as well as the spacing and number of elements. There used to be more FM towers that used Phillystran for the top guy wire to prevent the guys re-radiating. Also non-wave-length multiples in the upper guys has been used to avoid re-radiation.

Some of us who were home brewing FM stations back in the 60's came up with other tricks. I liked mechanical tilt of the whole array when the center of radiation was very high and the population right below. A US example is the mountain site over Albuquerque. In my case, it was a site about 3,000 feet over the market right to one side of that market and at nearly 13,000 feet AMSL. My other trick was to have no horizontal radiation.

There is still the fact that the new site is way to the SW of the center of the market and it won't cover well the northern population areas.

I'd be willing to bet it covers the northern part of the metro better than the old site, more because of the optimization than the move itself. The old site doesn't perform well as it should, even in areas inside its licensed 60 dBu.

Ask anyone who lives in Houston how well the signal of Cox's 97.1 performs. It's the worst rimshot in the market on paper, but the signal performs better than all the eastern rimshots. At least some of the optimization techniques used for KTHT are being employed at the new KROI site.

It's obviously not going to outperform the full C FMs at the Missouri City tower farm, but when it's built, I'd be willing to bet it performs much better than the old site, and all the eastern rimshots.

 

[Ryan Williams]

Ask anyone who lives in Houston how well the signal of Cox's 97.1 performs. It's the worst rimshot in the market on paper, but the signal performs better than all the eastern rimshots. At least some of the optimization techniques used for KTHT are being employed at the new KROI site.

I'm in the Houston market regularly and it is remarkable how much better KTHT does in the real world than you might guess by looking at the contours from the FCC data. Even in the southern counties of the metro like Galveston, Brazoia, and Fort Bend.

 

[davideduardo]

I'm in the Houston market regularly and it is remarkable how much better KTHT does in the real world than you might guess by looking at the contours from the FCC data. Even in the southern counties of the metro like Galveston, Brazoia, and Fort Bend.

Yet if you look at the PPM data by geography, it gets essentially no at home listening in those counties.

 

[Mediafrog+]

Yet if you look at the PPM data by geography, it gets essentially no at home listening in those counties.

Agree that in-home reception of KTHT in the southern counties would be poor, as most people use crappy radios inside their house or apartment. Reception is much better on car radios.

This is why I continually beat the drum for a 92.1/97.1 simulcast (again) that would provide good full market coverage, especially after the new 92.1 tower is complete.

 

[Ryan Williams]

Yet if you look at the PPM data by geography, it gets essentially no at home listening in those counties.

That's not surprising as all of those counties are beyond even the 50 dBu, all i was saying is that anecdotally it seems to do better than the map would suggest, not that it is competitive with the Senior Road signals. I suspect the reason it seems to do better is because there is water on that side of the market and thus no stations to the south that would cause significant interference.

 

[Djbabyface]

Columbus and Indianapolis are not even Top 50 Hispanic markets, The is no synergy between Houston and those others. And Radio One tried Spanish language radio before, and there was a huge in-house culture clash that was very debilitating. They lost a lot of money on that one, even with one of the best PDs.

There is no need for synergy. As far as in-house culture clash... They have always had them in clusters. There has always been a ongoing clash inside Greenway Plaza office from Noble Broadcasting days to today...

They have Houston, a proven Hispanic market, packaged with two other stations in markets that have LESS Competition for the Hispanic market. They are already running the format so that indeed cuts cost. They are indeed trying to grow the company, and from a national sales point of view, I would not count it out.

 

[davideduardo]

There is no need for synergy. As far as in-house culture clash... They have always had them in clusters. There has always been a ongoing clash inside Greenway Plaza office from Noble Broadcasting days to today...

They have Houston, a proven Hispanic market, packaged with two other stations in markets that have LESS Competition for the Hispanic market. They are already running the format so that indeed cuts cost. They are indeed trying to grow the company, and from a national sales point of view, I would not count it out.

Cluster conflicts have not always existed. I interned at a 5-station cluster in 1963, and then built a 9 station one later in the 60's and never had conflicts; we had rivalries but that was encouraged so that every station was at its best.

The format in those two tiny markets would never be the same as the execution, mix and presentation needed in Houston.

Having a cut-and-paste version of the format in little markets is no help at all in competing in Houston. You will note that the Estrella Media stations in Dallas, Houston and LA all have separate playlists, reflecting the predominant areas of Mexico the local Hispanics come from. Houston is the only market where the Mexican origin or Mexican heritage Hispanics almost all come from the NE Mexican zone surrounding Monterrey, NL. There is a reason why the music is called "regional".

As to culture, we have Hispanics who have been significantly disenfranchised in most of the nation due to other political movements and currents, who are not going to be fond of working in an atmosphere that is so different. That has not gotten better... it has gotten worse.

 

[radiohits]

Cluster conflicts have not always existed. I interned at a 5-station cluster in 1963, and then built a 9 station one later in the 60's and never had conflicts; we had rivalries but that was encouraged so that every station was at its best.

The format in those two tiny markets would never be the same as the execution, mix and presentation needed in Houston.

Having a cut-and-paste version of the format in little markets is no help at all in competing in Houston. You will note that the Estrella Media stations in Dallas, Houston and LA all have separate playlists, reflecting the predominant areas of Mexico the local Hispanics come from. Houston is the only market where the Mexican origin or Mexican heritage Hispanics almost all come from the NE Mexican zone surrounding Monterrey, NL. There is a reason why the music is called "regional".

As to culture, we have Hispanics who have been significantly disenfranchised in most of the nation due to other political movements and currents, who are not going to be fond of working in an atmosphere that is so different. That has not gotten better... it has gotten worse.

I know David here is the all knowing but, I have to disagree with you. i have worked with similar clusters where you have a mix of formats and cultures and people are able to work just fine. If 92.1 in Houston and improve the signal and get the right team, I am sure they would put a dent in the market. not sure why you throw shade at smaller operations but some of these smaller stations event some of these translators have the same amount of employees as some of the big latino clusters in the market and i can assure you they feel more job security then the afternoon drive person at Univision. Things have changed.. i see it every day in my office. I'm willing to bet that if Radio one pulled the trigger on a spanish format they would have no problem taking the Estrella cluster.

 

[radiohits]

@djbabyface.. you are right on the money!

 

[radiohits]

That was almost 15 years ago.

Both KTJM and KQQK are doing rather well with weaker rimshots. With KLTN being a daytime talk station, the only competition for Regional Mexican music is Estrella Media at the moment (that pesky church translator is a joke not even worth discussing... I wouldn't be surprised to see another format flip by the end of the year).

Would love to see someone with a better signal give 102.9 some competition.

 

[BamaTX]

not sure why you throw shade at smaller operations but some of these smaller stations event some of these translators have the same amount of employees as some of the big latino clusters in the market

And here lies the problem. Companies like Univision and Entravision have gone through cut backs in recent years and operate as skeletons of their former selves nationally. In the Valley, Entravision only has one live shift for each station and the rest of the day is automated. In Houston, KLTN only has one local personality (if you don't count the syndicated morning show that is hosted here). Matching the payroll of larger companies should not be the goal of a translator. If anything, they should take a hint of the ongoing trend.

The strategy to sell low, but sell a lot is not a long term strategy. Of all businesses, Centro should know this. Stations like KLTN and KTJM have been around for a very long time while Centro's original launch formats no longer exist. I wouldn't be surprised if the church is actively shopping around a lease for 104.5. It can't be worth the headache to have the same payroll as KLTN, but a fraction of the coverage and revenue (and still have to pay an HD subchannel lease).

and i can assure you they feel more job security then the afternoon drive person at Univision. Things have changed.. i see it every day in my office.

No one at Estrella feels like they have any form of job security. The company is coming out of bankruptcy and is now owned by a private equity firm that could blow up the entire radio side of the business.

IIRC, Univision's afternoon "person(s)" is a syndicated show out of the west coast.

 

[Djbabyface]

@djbabyface.. you are right on the money!

Thank you sir... Lots of changing in play everywhere.... thinking 2021 is going to be the same.. not going to happen, Radio got forced to figure this out this year when they were forced to send all their staff home to work. Something that small broadcasters and LMA broadcasters like myself have been doing since 2009. The big markets have been following each other for so long, they are now being blindsided by the Tik-Tok, Smap Chat, Twitter content at home creators of the future. Many with decades of experience are now are blown out of their jobs because the old way is now once again obsolete, the basic wheel is still there but future thinking wave of media broadcasters are filling these seats.

After realizing how much $$ can be saved on all these High Rise office location long term leases, and other items they have done for years.. they now are having the what were we thinking moment. Not since the FCC allowed additional ownership of FM & Am have we seen the storm that is coming. In Office synergy is now Sales Force, AWS, and Zoom!

 

[davideduardo]

And here lies the problem. Companies like Univision and Entravision have gone through cut backs in recent years and operate as skeletons of their former selves nationally. In the Valley, Entravision only has one live shift for each station and the rest of the day is automated. In Houston, KLTN only has one local personality (if you don't count the syndicated morning show that is hosted here). Matching the payroll of larger companies should not be the goal of a translator. If anything, they should take a hint of the ongoing trend..

In most of the world, the idea of "local" personalities is thought of as rather absurd... just as doing local versions of the night shows instead of Steverino and Johnny Carson was thought to be inferior in the TV world about 60 years ago!

Radio was kept from being totally regional or national in the past by technology and by the severe limits on ownership Congress imposed, via the FCC, back in the early 1930's.

Now we can assemble shows from workparts that include needed local elements and great national talents as well as localized service elements in seamless fashion, adjusted to our time zine.

The only way radio can survive is if the industry adapts to lower revenue and does things that are new to provide good hosted content without reinventing the same wheel in each of 300 or so markets nationally.