Radio post wildfires?

[Tibbs4]

I did not get to read David's comments, in detail. BigA, you are right on this. I think we all get that. If you have spent any time in the Gatlinburg area, you know that if you are a especially a tourist, you would have no idea on how to react or get out of the place given the hills and roads. If there was no emergency messages on your cell phone, then once you are in a car, you had one other option. Scan the radio dial and pray and hope for some comfort and some news. I have not had a chance to read KayJayJay's posted article, either, so forgive me for redundancy, etc.



I think the real interesting issue will be why (or whether) the area had police on the streets trying to help get cars in the right direction. That does not take much time to mobilize. Again, when you have sudden 85 mph wind gusts, you literally cannot predict much. But, you have to act quickly no matter what and send out the warnings, even if they are not precise or able to be up to date as this spread insanely fast. I have heard one of the top people in charge say they were warned to be on alert as early as 3 pm for the storm to blow the winds like this and what it could produce. The winds were bad in Nashville, Cookeville and all points to the east, so it seems like the prudent thing to have done would be to warn of the potential for flair ups with the wind, by seeing this coming in. I saw one YouTube video where a person made a comment that they had "no idea which damn way to go to out of this inferno and you could hear the radio scanning."

 

[TheBigA]

One story I remember from Katrina is the emergency officials told people in the radio stations to evacuate. Seemed crazy to me, but that's what happened. Some refused to go, some moved operations to a co-owned station, but they were ordered to leave their own studios. What do you say when that happens?

 

[gr8oldies]

My friend indicated no police were on the street directing traffic. The big issue all day was poor air quality, not the possibility that the fire would leave the National Park. Even the voluntary evacuations as late as 5pm were due to air quality.

I did not get to read David's comments, in detail. BigA, you are right on this. I think we all get that. If you have spent any time in the Gatlinburg area, you know that if you are a especially a tourist, you would have no idea on how to react or get out of the place given the hills and roads. If there was no emergency messages on your cell phone, then once you are in a car, you had one other option. Scan the radio dial and pray and hope for some comfort and some news. I have not had a chance to read KayJayJay's posted article, either, so forgive me for redundancy, etc.



I think the real interesting issue will be why (or whether) the area had police on the streets trying to help get cars in the right direction. That does not take much time to mobilize. Again, when you have sudden 85 mph wind gusts, you literally cannot predict much. But, you have to act quickly no matter what and send out the warnings, even if they are not precise or able to be up to date as this spread insanely fast. I have heard one of the top people in charge say they were warned to be on alert as early as 3 pm for the storm to blow the winds like this and what it could produce. The winds were bad in Nashville, Cookeville and all points to the east, so it seems like the prudent thing to have done would be to warn of the potential for flair ups with the wind, by seeing this coming in. I saw one YouTube video where a person made a comment that they had "no idea which damn way to go to out of this inferno and you could hear the radio scanning."

 

[gr8oldies]

What went right or wrong with warning and evacuating the population has been discussed. Apparently no warnings went to cellphones, and even if they had, a 90 character warning with no further way to give instructions isn't much good, particularly with visitors not familiar with the area. An EAS went to radio and TV stations at 9:04 (much too late). If an evacuation order would have gone at noon for unclean, sooty, yellow air, how many would have obeyed?
http://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/...defend-handling-wildfire-evacuation/94886552/

While stations may report on the news, as BigA states, it is the local authorities (Civil Defense, Fire, Rescue, Police, governments) who issue "warnings". The general method for this is to do an EAS alert, including TV radio and cellular phones. Whether a station is automated or not, the EAS system can be activated and messages aired under the authority of the proper authorities.

No station has the ability or capacity to declare an emergency or issue a warning.



There is a difference between news coverage and emergency alerts. As someone who has seen California and Arizona wildfires up close, I know that the media does not have access to the front lines as they are "kept safe" and out of the way. If the authorities want to broadcast detailed information, they ask for it or trigger the EAS.

In the case of fires, the first lines of the alert system are calls to all landlines and cellphones in the area. This is followed by door to door Fire Department orders of evacuation. In most cases, deaths and injuries are attributed to failure to heed such warnings by people who did not want to leave their homes.

 

[KayJayJay]

Yes, there was yesterday's News Sentinel story of one person Monday night, now believed dead, who through the door of her room in an East Parkway efficiency apartment told someone that she wasn't leaving, even if it meant she'd die that night. In spite of that, perhaps the better question is while some might have chosen to not evacuate, does that justify Gatlinburg officials not giving an earlier order anyway?

Not sure if it was ignorance or arrogance or greed or none of the above, but for some reason Gatlinburg leadership chose to continue to downplay the threat of the fire throughout that afternoon. All the while, fire was becoming more visible on the northern face of LeConte. One of the more compelling stories in the News Sentinel was the one of the woman who as she walked off the job mid afternoon told her boss at one of the resorts that you can "fire me" but we need to get out.

Larry Waters insisted on Friday that they won't "armchair quarterback" Monday's events. He's dead wrong. Gatlinburg dodged a bullet on Monday. Had this happened during season, the results would have been far more tragic. I shake at the thought of the number of people that would have been gridlocked in their trying to drive down Ski Mountain or Greystone Heights Roads on a hot August in-season night.

A University of Tennessee prof has long been predicting what happened on Monday. He's been mostly ignored.

All the while, Gatlinburg has allowed more development on the very mountain fronts around the town that burned Monday night. Perhaps it's just me, but I trust someone will question whether or not this type of development should be allowed to continue. Questions about building code and infrastructure need to be answered. Are there changes needed? Instead, I suspect they'll simply rebuild. And rush to book in the next thirsting for Ole Smokey 'shine tourist.

Not that much any of us write here will change things. Though I also suspect that with Sevier County's admission yesterday, the typical "John Doe" class action suits will start appearing later this week. And that we likely will be watching this move through the courts for years to come.

And in an attempt to bring this home to the topic of radio, other than a radio geek like me, does anyone ever travel to Gatlinburg to watch TV or listen to radio? If you've spent any time in Gatlinburg, you know how, with perhaps the exception of Mix, Star or WIVK, FM is an un-listenable jumble of multi-path. AM is nonexistent. 72 or 90 characters or not, a better way to communicate an emergency to residents and tourists has to be found and used.

For someone like me, who grew up almost literally thinking of stop light six along the Parkway in Gatlinburg as the center of his childhood universe, this is all just too sad. Too, too sad.

 

[gr8oldies]

Even if this would have happened two days before, very obviously more lives would have been lost. As it was the Thanksgiving weekend crowds had vacated.
I still don't know that anyone could have predicted the whole city would go up in flames. I know all about protecting the tourism industry since that's what I do for a living. Now to try to mitigate some of the out of state coverage that has people thinking "Gatlinburg and Pigeon Forge dun burned to the ground". Even
It is called "risk management" as opposed to "risk elimination". I had a friend posting pictures from downtown Gatlinburg of the smoky sky. Even Where I work in downtown Sevierville, the air smelled like an ashtray (or the control room of my first couple of radio stations I worked at in the 1970s). If we humans were sensible, we'd never build by the ocean, on a riverfront, in tornado alley or on a mountainside.
I doubt much of anybody visiting is there to watch TV or listen to radio. It's even worse in Maggie Valley NC, where there's nothing on the dial but WKSC 99.9 and WMIT 106.9. Even Asheville doesn't have much that covers the whole city.

 

[TheBigA]

Going forward, it's obvious that local officials have to at least have a plan in place the next time this happens. Sure, this is a rare occurrence, not the kind of thing that happens every year. Still there's money and training available from the feds if they want to pursue that kind of thing. Typically southern states don't want to apply for federal training grants. They prefer to do that kind of thing themselves. But there are some other states who face this all the time, and they might have some ideas.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

According to the maps available from the U.S. Fire Administration, the cabin I stayed at this summer just south of Dollywood was in the fire zone. I don't know whether or not it actually burned, but I do know that, based on things I read and heard on 6 News WATE (which I watched from home this week) I probably would not have evacuated if I had been there. The evacuation order for Pigeon Forge was "the Spur and parts of town south of traffic light #9", which didn't mean much to this out-of-towner. I've since learned that "the Spur" is the highway between Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg, US 441, and that the traffic light was Dollywood Lane, which I would have recognized as one of the roads en route to this particular cabin.

So yes, emergency managers in Sevier County have some learning to do about how to effectively communicate, in addition to when and by what methods.

 

[Tibbs4]

Big, I gotta have a little fun with you, ole expert on everything from up Norf. (You know I am playing.) Us Southerners from the South ain't real smart about them mechanical things and all, but we know one thing that really just sticks in our crawls. Wicked weather. We had winds in Nashville many hours before the system continued east into Cookeville, Knoxville and eventually Gatlinburg. Wind, even about 8-10mph, and even a small amount of fire = problems. Ten times (10X) that. Uh oh. We all learned that in second grade down here as we had our drills. The weather service in Morristown. TN made note of the coming heavy winds and potential for severe storms way prior to 6 PM and potential for problems with fires. The force of the system was evident to anyone who saw what it was doing 200 miles away. There was time to mobilize. There was time to send out warnings to radio stations and TV (yes to phone calls and/or EBS alerts) prior to everyone in radio and government going home at 4 pm.+-/ Every time it clouds up here in Nashville, we have TV weather reports and alerts going crazy. I had been seeing plenty of Facebook posts about the smoke in downtown Gatlinburg during the day. It was honestly a shock that people were staying there breathing in all of that horrible smoke. We had a few days of smoke in the air in Nashville from the fires that were well over one hundred miles to the east and it was surprisingly pungent. I cannot believe so many could stay there and endure that smoke many hours before the winds picked up. I guess the officials thought the rain would come in and ease the fires. I don't know. I cannot believe there virtually were no police stationed on the roads directing people. It is amazing that there were not a substantial amount of accidents, panic attacks or burns from this. As for why we all are on here on this board for, radio matters, I read that the first actual alert triggered at 9:04 EST, but there were issues sending the warning out. Virtually no radio stations with 30 miles got this on the air. There were no live personalities on the air to report or update or YES GIVE WARNINGS. Sorry, I have been around too many weather related problems to not give updates and try to give people a sense of what is happening if I am able to do so. I do not yet know the different automation systems used by these stations in the Gatlinburg area, but will probably be getting that info tomorrow. Hippie (in Nashville) has a system that allows instant access and live reports on the air either by stopping the system and going live (by cell) or inserting a quickly recorded message (again, by cell) between songs, etc. I am surprised that I have yet to hear of a radio operator in the area trying to get some local info/updates out, despite the lack of communication from officials. I cannot imagine what a terror it had to be to be a tourist, or local, driving down those roads in the dark with fire within a few feet of your car. Talk about bravery. To get no info on the car radio, no cell phone updates or see many fire trucks or police has to be one of the most unthinkable desolate situations. I know the mayor of Gatlinburg and that team were caught way off guard, and to be honest there could not be enough people on the payroll at any given time to do much, but every city (even in the crazy South) spends millions of dollars and time preparing for various disasters, so where was the leadership early on looking ahead at the storm about to hit? My thought is the truth is downright painful - our government at all levels are not really prepared for any disaster. We need to face that fact and adjust accordingly very quickly. Not argue about who did not do what.

 

[TheBigA]

Big, I gotta have a little fun with you, ole expert on everything from up Norf. (You know I am playing.) Us Southerners from the South ain't real smart about them mechanical things and all, but we know one thing that really just sticks in our crawls. Wicked weather.

My comment refers to several federal programs that have been offered, and Tennessee has chosen not to participate. Highway funding, insurance funding, and several other programs that have made national news. It wouldn't surprise me that federal training funds were offered from DHS, and Tennessee said no.

I have yet to hear of a radio operator in the area trying to get some local info/updates out, despite the lack of communication from officials.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting. To report information without confirmation from officials would be the wrong thing to do.

 

[gr8oldies]

I'm listening to a talk show as we speak. A gentleman was called in asking "why didn't city officials call all the radio and TV stations?". I'm thinking to myself "that's not how any of this works". You can't just put stuff on the air without verification. I believe WIVK would have been live (they have a live personality but he runs segments from "Nash Nights Live" or whatever it is.

 

[Tibbs4]

Big A - We have the Federal Highway Funding you mentioned,. It was a mandate pertaining to drinking and driving laws that are states rights vs. Federal inclusions to get the money. Simple tweak. Took a few years. TN opted out of Obamacare in favor our previously in place state health system. I get your point, now. I would HOPE we would welcome all the funds, training and upgrades to lead the nation in the most effective warning system.

As for the updates from radio stations - I am referring to the news services, state and national sending new bulletins and updates out. I am referring to radio station suspending Air Supply and Beyoncé and running a local television stations feed that they have partnered with for previous weather events. Just because a station is not getting Gatlinburg's warnings does not mean the National Weather Service (I mentioned Morristown, etc.) are not issuing statements or on-air warnings. My point is this smoke and fires for several days, eventually causing so much attention in downtown Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg that it was all over the internet, should have given pause to the station owners and/or managers to be prepared to disseminate the news and information. I am not imply that these people take the news into their own hands and just make up things.

 

[TheBigA]

As for the updates from radio stations - I am referring to the news services, state and national sending new bulletins and updates out.

I think what we've determined, and the area emergency officials have admitted, is that official information was not sent to radio stations or to cell phones. The breakdown happened at the government agency responsible for disseminating the information. Not a radio problem.

 

[gr8oldies]

A radio station, or several radio stations, can't evacuate a town on its own. An EAS going out at 9:04pm was much too late when Gatlinburg was burning around 7. Should the city have evacuated at noon? Probably now that we can do 20-20 hindsight. This event will be studied by everyone in emergency management for decades to come.

 

[KayJayJay]

Hurricane warnings come days before predicted landfall. And most reasonable people trust the word of those authorities and act on what they've been told. They prepare and evacuate, all the while also knowing and praying that hurricane might well change path making all their work for naught. True leaders err on the side of caution, even if that caution is just a few hours ahead of a firestorm. Chimney Top 2 might well have not hit Gatlinburg. But common sense suggests that we don't err on the side of risk. TEMA claims they didn't want to induce panic. What the hell do think those poor souls trying to navigate Ski Mountain Road in the midst of flame, smoke and ash were experiencing four hours after the fires began in Gatlinburg? And here's another little surprise for Waters and Werner and Ogle and TEMA. By their oceanfront nature, most of those hurricane evacuations happen in tourist areas too.

 

[gr8oldies]

Those hurricane-prone areas have evacuation routes clearly marked. Since Gatlinburg had never been evacuated, no one marked evacuation routes. Probably 95% of populated areas have no clearly marked evacuation routes. I've seen people up in arms when unexpected snow happens and no one's crystal ball saw it until school was in session; and 2 weeks later be outraged again when predicted snow doesn't materialize and "those idiots closed school because it rained!".

 

[KayJayJay]

Perhaps it's best I take my frustration over this elsewhere but I'll state the already obvious. I'm angry about this. I'm sickened when I think of Grant Reed from Centerville having to bury his daughter-in-law and two grandchildren and comfort his grieving son. I'm appalled that an area driven by tourism failed so deeply to protect those tourists.

And yes, I'll readily give you the "hurricane evacuation route" point.

But please, I've known you too long and respect you too much to believe you'd even pretend to lower yourself to suggest that this is the same as Todd Howell not calling a heavy snowfall.

 

[Tibbs4]

KayJayJay - you have the right idea. The "experts" panting on here that think there is any excuse for what happened are off base and IF they are true radio people with radio in their actual soul (verses the shells of corporate sellouts they hopefully have not truly become) they know what should have happened verses what did. That does not take after the fact blaming or armchair quarterbacking. I am trying to stay clear of that. all it takes is common sense. Most of these posters on here have that for sure. I told you above that I am working on the background of what did and did not happen. It is disheartening. A few simple better connections could have made a lot of difference.

 

[TheBigA]

KayJayJay - you have the right idea. The "experts" panting on here that think there is any excuse for what happened are off base and IF they are true radio people with radio in their actual soul (verses the shells of corporate sellouts they hopefully have not truly become) they know what should have happened verses what did.

So if we had "radio in our soul" we would break the law? We should go rogue and become posse comitatus? Is that what you're saying?

We live under very different rules and laws than radio people did before 9-11. Read the law before you start lecturing me about people who have "radio in their soul."

I agree that there is no excuse for what happened. We should hold our government responsible for what happened. Someone should ask the Governor why innocent people died. Where was HE when this happened? But it's not the job of some part time DJ to save lives.

 

[davideduardo]

KayJayJay - you have the right idea. The "experts" panting on here that think there is any excuse for what happened are off base and IF they are true radio people with radio in their actual soul (verses the shells of corporate sellouts they hopefully have not truly become) they know what should have happened verses what did. That does not take after the fact blaming or armchair quarterbacking. I am trying to stay clear of that. all it takes is common sense. Most of these posters on here have that for sure. I told you above that I am working on the background of what did and did not happen. It is disheartening. A few simple better connections could have made a lot of difference.

Again, a radio station alone can not help significantly in situations like this. Even all local station's combined can not.

This is because in situations ranging from tornadoes and hurricanes to fires and floods it is necessary to have the core information and that comes mostly from various government agencies. Because this is essentially true in all cases, the EAS was established to channel official information to radio and TV listeners and, more recently, to cable subscribers and cellphone users.

Radio alone can't do the job you want done. At any given time in the daytime, less than one out of every ten persons is listening to all radio stations. At other hours even fewer are listening.

That's why in areas of the Midwest, there are tornado siren systems and folks have self-activating weather radios in high risk areas. EAS and the electronic media are a backup and a reinforcement, but not the first source because they do not reach most of the people at any given time.

I lived for nearly 3 decades in Puerto Rico where hurricanes were quite common. Still, in what was a vibrant radio and TV market, there was nobody on the staff of even the all-news stations (I was involved with two of them) capable of analyzing weather data or formulating evacuation recommendations. Stations were ready to report, but would never, ever dare to take people's lives into their own hands. So we worked with the folks who did know and relayed the information we were given, and reported on the resultant news.

As BigA says, broadcasters are not vigilantes, taking justice into our own hands. Our love for our profession and our passion for our listeners makes us do the right thing which is to let the best qualified experts provide the necessary advice and information in times of emergencies and tragedies.

If the governmental agencies failed, then we have a political and social issue, not a radio issue.