Radio today is like the worst Basken Robbins ever.

[TheBigA]

BigA...not sure where you were in the early 2000's, but that was the start of CC VTing,

Not true. Voicetracking began before deregulation. Depending on what you call voicetracking, it was being done at some stations in the 70s. Perhaps you didn't know. Then it was done on reel to reel tape. Digital technology made it easier in the 90s.

I first heard about the current incarnation of VT from an engineer for Southern Star in Austin in 1993. The purpose was to supplant satellite formats distributed by TranStar and Satellite Radio Networks (later ABC). Satellite formats replaced reel to reel tape automation. Which replaced 5K phone line networks. So this kind of programming has been done as long as radio has been around. And Pittsburgh is where radio was invented.

 

[Parttimer]

One incarnation of KQV-FM in the early 70's featured jocks like Dave Herman from NY and JJ Jackson from LA (yes, the MTV JJ Jackson) doing entire shows on tape. They made no effort to pretend the shows were live, however.

I also recall Y103 from Youngstown in 1976-77 running an automation system that could give time checks by advancing tapes once per minute. WOVK was still using a cart-based automation system like this for overnights in the late 80's.

I think Bob Stevens dusted off one of these old systems to run KVE.

 

[F.M.Hertz]

Bill Drake was a pioneer in automation. In the 60s when FM was seen as the red-headed stepchild of broadcasting, he did a format called "Hit Parade '68" (then Hit Parade '69, etc.) on KHJ-FM (now KRTH "K-Earth" 101) in Boss Angeles. The HP'68 format was also used for the RKO stations in San Francisco and New York. It only lasted for a couple of years.

In Pittsburgh, the original KDKA-FM at 92.9 was just a rack off of the engineering suite that simulcasted the Bogut show and played classical music on reel-to-reel tapes.

This has been around for a while, folks.

 

[garnet]

Anyone who is on this board is well aware of the difference between 70's automation and the current idea of tracking. Quite a leap.

 

[Alton]

Garnet, I think you're right, people should know the difference between the recordings of the 70's and how Clear Channel has taken the idea of piping in voices to multiple markets. There is quite a difference. And, the main point is that Clear Channel is using it in a way that allows them the cheapest way to pay talent. They've literally wiped out airstaffs by using their "Premium Choice Talent" (PC Talent as they call it. Just another term for people program directors asked to do it for an extra 19 cents a day. Yes, literally these trackers are making what amounts to 19 cents a day. I know, a friend is a PC talent.) He agreed to take on the task as he was afraid it would be held against him and he'd be fired.

BigA...not sure where you were in the early 2000's, but that was the start of CC VTing, up til then it was unheard of(except for Howard and a few)that a jock in Hartford could also do shows in Youngstown, Morgantown, or anywhere...I knew alot of people who lost their jobs, and others who tracked for other markets(making the huge sums of 3 to 6 THOUSAND! dollars)...and you're right, other companys did not have to follow, but sadly, if your competition is selling spots for 4 bucks...guess what?...in order to compete, you have to sell for 4 bucks, too...it used to be called "whoring out your station"...then it got renamed "good business"...for a few...I always laugh when the "VP of Southwestern Regional Program Development" gets blown out after 25 years with CC, to be replaced by the "VP of West Southern Central Regional Program Development"...at least its starting with management, now...

Point on man.

 

[Parttimer]

Anyone who is on this board is well aware of the difference between 70's automation and the current idea of tracking. Quite a leap.

You'd be surprised. We had a thread a few months ago where people who are frequent posters were asking questions to the effect of "there's a list of songs the DJ has to follow?"

 

[corporateradiosucks]

It's more like that creepy episode of WKRP in Cincinnati where they show the station 30 yrs. in the future, and Herb Tarlek is the only remaining employee. He turns out the lights at 5 o'clock as the giant computer goes on and does everything else.

Wasn't that the Xmas episode?

That was the Christmas episode. There was also the episode where the competing station hired Venus to be program director - only for Venus to find out that the station was fully automated, he would have no say in what songs were picked whatsoever, and they were only hiring him to fill an Affirmative Action requirement.

much like "Network", many of the "satirical" things on that show have come to pass.

 

[TheBigA]

And, the main point is that Clear Channel is using it in a way that allows them the cheapest way to pay talent.

There is no law that requires a radio station to have talent at all. It's something they choose to do.

And your 19 cents a day may be what your friend is getting, but I know a lot of people at CC, and they tell me it's a whole lot more. In fact, you can double your salary just by adding a few VTs. It's worth it for the talent, plus they qualify for national broadcasting awards.

 

[KeyTimes950]

I find the topic fascinating, Clarke's insights worthwhile as usual, and a lot of truth in what everyone is saying. I think the initial point was that 31 flavors of ice cream either could be a tasters' dream or a nightmare, depending on who cooked up the batches. Having said that, I'll say radio today doesn't mean 31 flavors of vanilla. But it sure as heck doesn't remind me of getting a skyscraper cone at Isaly's either. There are some stations that would taste great no matter what the IQ of the VTer or the board op (or both) is. WQED-FM comes to mind for a lot of its weekly schedule. WJAS-AM, too, as it's the station my mom's caregivers play in her room 24/7. There are some that could use a little less of the salt of self-importance. WESA-FM is a candidate there. Other stations are like batches that do not have enough of a key ingredient. No time checks on WPGB-FM. No weekend local news on KDKA-AM. And so it goes. By the way, the specialty flavors of "Christmas" (if that's really what you want to call it) only will be available for a few more days at brands WSHH and WWSW.

 

[Alton]

There is no law that requires a radio station to have talent at all. It's something they choose to do.

And your 19 cents a day may be what your friend is getting, but I know a lot of people at CC, and they tell me it's a whole lot more. In fact, you can double your salary just by adding a few VTs. It's worth it for the talent, plus they qualify for national broadcasting awards.

Sorry, but that is where you are dead wrong. As someone who has been privvy to negotiations within this pc talent structure, I guarantee you, there is NOBODY making double their pay. Maybe there are some who have 3 or 4 VT stations and are supplementing that way (with multiple other stations independent of the PC Talent structure), but there is absolutely no way that a talent is doubling their pay by taking on one PC vt airshift. I think you are not talking about the Premium Choice Talents and just a CC employee who is also VT other markets (at which with a few other stations under the belt you can add a nice little chunk of change. Not necessarily sure if that's double the amount of the salary (depends on how high or low of a salary you're talking about, too).

I expect you to refute this and come back with your own numbers, but I've seen it first hand and the progression of how they obtain and secure the selected jocks to become a talent to voicetrack on premium choice. I know and have seen how it's done and that the figure I quoted was the figure a lot of people are getting. Those are the true facts.

 

[corporateradiosucks]

WJAS could use WAY less of the expired dried mustard that is John Tesh. I understand they don't want to have someone live at that hour of the night, especially considering their average audience age, but for the love of all that's holy, get a different show. If I want to hear a bunch of cockamamie self-selecting studies about my children's dairy intake, there are lots of places on the internet for that, and they won't interfere with my enjoyment of The Carpenters.

 

[TheBigA]

Sorry, but that is where you are dead wrong. As someone who has been privvy to negotiations within this pc talent structure, I guarantee you, there is NOBODY making double their pay.

The difference between VT and Premium Choice is VT is exclusive to a specific market, and so the talent is expected to localize it. Not so with PC. So yes, I imagine there is a pay difference for VT vs Premium Choice.

The point is that advertisers are only buying the top rated dayparts on top rated stations. Radio is not the exclusive commodity it was 30 years ago. Too many stations, and what makes someone a great radio host is simply too subjective. It's killed the market for this kind of work. CC hung on for ten years doing things the old way, and it wasn't working.

 

[MsMusicRadio]

When KQV first went Top 40, Sunday afternoon was a series of hourly recorded shows by their week-day line-up. WMCK was automated overnights after Bill Lynch signed off.

However, nothing beats, in my mind, what Cox broadcasting does in Tampa with WDUV automated 20 hours a day and WXGL automated 16 hours a day. No jock at all of any kind. They are just jukeboxes and are often one and two in the 12+ PPM,s which shows that even VT'ing from out of town is a useless luxury. The CC stations in Tampa still have somebody 18 hours or more a day and try to sound like they are in Tampa.

 

[TheBigA]

However, nothing beats, in my mind, what Cox broadcasting does in Tampa with WDUV automated 20 hours a day and WXGL automated 16 hours a day. No jock at all of any kind. They are just jukeboxes and are often one and two in the 12+ PPM,s which shows that even VT'ing from out of town is a useless luxury.

Exactly. Why spend money on talent when its obvious the listeners don't want it. Especially for an AC station. That format is basically Muzak for the 21st century. We've had enough time and have seen enough studies to know that talent for the sake of talent is simply a waste of money.

 

[Alton]

So yes, I imagine there is a pay difference for VT vs Premium Choice.

Good! Glad you understand that.

The point is that advertisers are only buying the top rated dayparts on top rated stations.

Um, that's not what our conversation was about. It was the fact that CC uses and abuses voicetracking, wiping out in some markets, the whole airstaff. Sure, there are owners and who do not value the air personality, and that is what has slowly killed this business we all love. There are no "smaller stations" where a budding talent can hone their skills. Thus, the whole talent pool in medium and larger markets feel the effects, as does the audience because the talent isn't as good as it could be. Just like CC hiring bottom feeders to fire the staffs. Also, it certainly is not very creative anymore with people who think like that at the helm. Radio just is not as much fun as it used to be. Another fatality of wiping out airstaffs like that is also not connecting with the community. CC is the leader in de-humanizing radio and continues to do everything they can to run barebones airstaffs so they can line their pockets with hefty bonuses for the market managers.

It's killed the market for this kind of work. CC hung on for ten years doing things the old way, and it wasn't working.

CC has killed the market for air talent. CC didn't hang on for anything. CC did their own thing ten years ago by starting to kill off talent. They'll do even more since they must now maintain a jet for Pittman

 

[TheBigA]

It was the fact that CC uses and abuses voicetracking, wiping out in some markets, the whole airstaff. Sure, there are owners and who do not value the air personality, and that is what has slowly killed this business we all love.

Not everyone who listens to the radio loves or values air personalities. So radio is dead for you. Meanwhile, hundreds of millions of others love it, and listen every day. Local air personalities have devalued themselves by not building their fan bases. Most people in this country get their media from national sources, so local air personalities seem small and unimportant. Listeners can speak directly with stars and celebrities. They don't need local DJs to act as intermediaries.

Yes, radio isn't as much fun as it used to be. You don't get paid to have fun. In radio or any other job. That's why they call it work. You want to have fun, and you resent it when management gets paid. Who's the selfish one now?

CC[/i] has killed the market for air talent. CC didn't hang on for anything. CC did their own thing ten years ago by starting to kill off talent. They'll do even more since they must now maintain a jet for Pittman

Pittman was a PD in Pittsburgh a long time ago. You can't BS him about radio. He knows the real deal. He knows talent, and he knows fakes. CC pays lots of money for talent. But that talent has to deliver. And if talent is so important, why isn't Renda or CBS beating CC with talent? If CC isn't connecting with the community, why do people listen? No one forces them, and they have lots of non-broadcast choices. Not like the 80s.

 

[Alton]

Woah! A HUGE twisting, or should I say lack of understanding, of my words! Where to begin?

You don't get paid to have fun.

YES, you do!! That's the whole point of radio. People are not going to listen to a drone.

You want to have fun, and you resent it when management gets paid. Who's the selfish one now?

Yeah BigA, you really did not comprehend not only what I wrote, but the whole concept of what radio is, what should be, and what it has become. I certainly don't resent mangement getting paid. Don't twist my words. Perhaps a lesson or two from Reading is Fundamental would help in your comprehension. You really missed that in 3rd grade. Please do us all a favor and really think about what you're responding to before doing so. It'll save us all a lot of time.

Local air personalities have devalued themselves by not building their fan bases.

I can't beleive you actually wrote that! Are you kidding me? Local air personalities (especially those at CC) are working their butts off promoting themselves all over facebook and twitter. CC personalites are mandated to do so (it's all about the click on the wall). The double edge sword? CC doesn't support the personality, it's the personality working to get that click on the wall and more people on their fb pages. It's all for digital revenue. (which does not go into the pockets of the personalities). The building of a fanbase should foremost be spearheaded by management. When was the last time you've seen any kind of marketing for a radio station? Corporate and management isn't selling their personalities.

Pittman was a PD in Pittsburgh a long time ago. You can't BS him about radio. He knows the real deal. He knows talent, and he knows fakes. CC pays lots of money for talent. But that talent has to deliver. And if talent is so important, why isn't Renda or CBS beating CC with talent?

Well, let's see what Pittman does to line the pockets of talent. I really don't think Bob cares about who's real or fake or about radio. He only cares about the bottom line and will do what he has to obtain that (or rather, market managers will do what they have to to obtain that). As for Renda and CBS they are not effectively marketing their stations. That is just one of the reasons they're not "beating" CC. The Frishlings do give some of the CC stations some extreme competion and at times does beat them in demos.

I certainly don't resent mangement getting paid. Don't twist my words.

I'm on my vacation now and don't have time to go back and forth with you because you seem to always be twisting what I and others post. You either can't comprehen and twist it into something totally different, presenting that as what we were talking about. You seem to make that your mission. Merry Christmas to you!

Btw, let's also wish all those unemployed who's salaries went to appeasing Pittman's extravagances. as well as John Hogan's and the Mays Brothers.

 

[TheBigA]

You don't get paid to have fun.

YES, you do!! That's the whole point of radio. People are not going to listen to a drone.

I think a lot of on-air talent would agree with you, especially those over the age of 50. They feel "If I'm having fun, the audience is having fun." But that's exactly 100% wrong with today's audiences.

We've had two generations come along since the boomers, and these generations grew up with personal music devices, starting with the Walkman, and now with the iPod and iPhone. They see radio and outside media differently. They are the empowerment generation. They don't listen to radio to hear YOU have fun. They listen so THEY can have fun. They want involvement. They want to drive programming. They want to interact, and maybe even get laid by listening to the radio. And NOT with the on-air talent! This is a fundamental change in the purpose of radio, and the change in fact happened 20 years ago.

I can't beleive you actually wrote that! Are you kidding me?

Here's how you can tell if a local air personality has built his fan base: Can he exist without his daily on air shift? In other words, after he gets fired, can he survive by taking his audience to another medium? Howard Stern did that. Adam Corolla did that. Several more have been able to make the transition. But most DJs are nothing without their company-owned platform. That hurts them when it comes to negotiating. The way to become bigger than your radio job is to do other things. Write a local newspaper column. Do local TV work. Make personal appearances. In other words, all the things the legends like Dick Clark did 50 years ago. Because the thing that makes a radio DJ valuable to audiences, and consequently advertisers, is credibility. And that comes from being an established authority that is bigger than your airshift. If you study any of the legends, you'll see they all found a way to do that.

 

[Alton]

They don't listen to radio to hear YOU have fun.

THAT was NOT my point. It's so the listeners have fun. Radio was and should be synergetic, entertaining, and compelling. At least good radio (all it's elements) & it's personalities should be.

I'm just looking at the rest of your post shaking my head. You just don't get it.

This is a fundamental change in the purpose of radio, and the change in fact happened 20 years ago.

What an assinine statement! Every programmer (and anyone in radio or out of it for that matter) will tell you different.

You're giving me gas now BigA. Really. Time for you to take a meter reading or something.

 

[Parttimer]

[ Most people in this country get their media from national sources, so local air personalities seem small and unimportant. Listeners can speak directly with stars and celebrities. They don't need local DJs to act as intermediaries.

I agree 100%. I wonder if the road to survival (or at least postponing the inevitable demise) for small stations in large markets isn't a unique niche in national programming, rather than trying to be ultra-local. Then it's interesting, competitive content on a limited signal vs something that sounds local and amateurish.