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Rage on the Radio

I was waiting for some broadcaster to start a thread about Bill Moyers’ Journal (September 12) which had a segment entitled “Rage on the Radio”.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/09122008/watch.html

Either nobody saw it, or people are too uninterested (too embarrassed?) to raise the subject. So here goes.

If you have anything to do with scheduling talk radio you ought to watch it, then take a good look in the mirror and ask yourselves if your conscience is clear. To any broadcaster who enables the likes of Michael Savage to take to the airwaves, I would ask: is there really nobody else in the entire broadcasting universe who can satisfy your chosen format without promoting hate and still help you make as much money? If the answer is no – I’m sorry, but the only decent thing to do is sacrifice some of your bottom line until you find someone who can. There must be plenty of young talents out there who would gladly fill your airtime and build an audience.

Then again, you could break away from your all-conservative-all-the-time format and give the other side a chance to be heard which, despite my advocacy for the progressive talk format, I believe is a far better option than the continued ghettoization of opinion radio.

It was hard for me to stomach all the vileness that was reported in Moyers’ program – all of it from the political right. As an unrepentant FDR liberal, I resent that broadcast managers who presumably consider themselves decent individuals would give airtime to people who tell their listeners that we liberals are a virus, traitors, ought to be shot, etc, etc, etc.

I’m not so naïve as to believe that toxic talk is limited to the political right; it’s just fact that because there are so many more conservative than liberal hatemongers on the air, they have by far the most influence. Were I responsible for scheduling a progressive talk radio station, there is no way I could have someone like Mike Malloy or Randi Rhodes in the lineup and still look myself in the eye.

While it is hard to prove that hateful speech leads to specific hateful actions, there is plenty of historical evidence from around the world that it cumulatively degrades societal health, just as there is that tobacco harms physical health. If speech doesn’t sway people, how do you account for the success of 20th century world leaders in moving their populations to do good things and bad? This is brought home all the more by our current turbulent economic times. Anyone with even a modest knowledge of history will be aware of the dire results that can befall a nation when its population is victimized by financial turmoil and provides an all-too-willing audience for demagogues to exploit.

Either you believe that words influence people or you don’t; but it’s very difficult to argue that your audience cannot be swayed by speech when the lifeblood of your business is provided by a multibillion dollar advertising industry whose very existence is based on precisely the opposite proposition.

As one of the contributors on Moyers pointed out, radio rage at least polarizes the public so much that people on the left and right cannot discuss issues with each other without a rapid decline in the civility of the conversation; I know that from experience. Our continuing national inability to talk over issues without the conversation degenerating into insults and character assassination will only deepen the already deep trouble that our nation is in when it comes to solving its very real problems. We are handing the next generation a profoundly dysfunctional nation.

Old-school conservatives like Dwight Eisenhower, Barry Goldwater, Frank Horton and Barber Conable – honorable people all - and maybe even a chastened Richard Nixon would be horrified and offended by the way present-day conservatism has mutated and by the way it chooses to propagate itself in the media. They must be turning in their graves.

It’s time, broadcasters, to quit your comfortable denial, so step out your bubble and acknowledge that some of what you peddle over the air is hate. Then clean up your act, regardless of whether you think toxic talk is a cause or a symptom. Someone has to break the circle, and it might as well be you. Spare us the BS that these people are entertainers; so were the Romans who threw Christians to the lions. Considering its corrosive effect on our culture, how is this stuff any better than hard-core pornography?

And don’t try to hide behind the first amendment. This is nothing to do with rights; as conservatives used to believe, rights come with responsibilities. Liberals are often told they have the right to express their opinions but station owners have the right to decide whether to put them on the air. Why aren’t toxic talkers told the same thing? It’s high time you started thinking about something beyond only your financial returns. As a certain candidate says, “country first”.
 
This kind of programming gets a lot of media attention, but ask yourself these questions; how much attention are listeners really paying to it in most markets? How much actual advertising billing from reputable local companies paying top dollar per unit does it pull in? How much is it really paying the stations that run it, and how much impact does it really have?

I'd love to see the hard numbers, but based on the type of company that you hear advertising on many of these shows, you get those per-inquiry spots for colon-blow remedies disproportionately represented in the clientele of these shows, along with the toll-free debt relief and get-rich-quick outfits. I bet the power ratio of this kind of programming (the ratio of dollars generated per gross share point) isn't all that favorable...someone who has direct access to those numbers can enlighten us as to how close to the target my impressions are.

Another problem with them is, do they find their listener base of angry white guys starting to age out of the prime demos, and shrinking in overall numbers? A lot of these guys grabbed a core of 35-64 white male listeners a decade or two ago, and held them--but don't seem to have picked up many younger listeners at the bottom end of the demo range to replace the top end of their core as it aged out, or in some cases started dying off. This is a problem for all talk radio. But my impression--and I admit it's an impression based on a casual look at numbers in a bunch of markets, rather than a systematic study--is that these hosts are weakening in the 35-54 prime cuts advertisers want, with an increasing slice of their 12+ comprised of 55+ listeners who don't attract as many advertisers. (You can say advertisers are short-sighted in that regard, and you might be right, but nevertheless that's how ad buys are decided.) And don't forget, they've always skewed heavily male and never gotten a lot of traction with adult women, so that cuts their revenue-generating listener base still further.

These hosts make a lot of noise. But what I'm asking, and would love to see a serious study of, is how much political and economic impact they really have, especially among voters and consumers under 55. We may be overestimating these guys' power in both realms.
 
Thank you, listener-in, for saving me a lot of typing! I caught Bill Moyers as well and was appalled. I have to say Bob, that conservative talk radio has much more of an audience than I would have believed when I worked in a rather liberal cocoon. Now that I'm out in the country I find that most of my friends and neighbors are rabid consumers of conservative talk shows. Even my son considers himself a member of the "Savage Nation" and he is only 27.

As far as ads for "colon-blowing" remedies being disproportionately represented on conservative shows, have you heard the "underwriting credit" for "Good Belly" during "All Things Considered", Bob? Pretty soon we'll be hearing of "easy elimination" during your show! ;D
 
Red1 said:
As far as ads for "colon-blowing" remedies being disproportionately represented on conservative shows, have you heard the "underwriting credit" for "Good Belly" during "All Things Considered", Bob? Pretty soon we'll be hearing of "easy elimination" during your show! ;D

I'm waiting for the Vigara underwriting to start appearing on Morning Edition and ATC ;D
 
Let me get this straight. Radio is currently on life support, with several large players struggling to avoid delisting by Wall Street, and you want them to forego incoming profits in order to fit your political agenda?

I've got a better idea. Gather enough of your supporters to buy a chunk of airtime and program it any way that you want. Trust me, they'll take your money. Then YOU can "sacrifice some of your bottom line" and think "about something beyond only your financial returns".

Corporate broadcasters are interested in financial return. Listeners - via ratings - reward them for their programming. That's one of the reasons TSL is declining. Sooner or later economics - not politics - will determine how programming changes. It's called free enterprise - which is vastly different from the propaganda machines of totalitarian governments that have manipulated public opinion in the past.
 
Long time, first time here.

Rox, I usually agree with almost everything you say, but not this time.

There should be some effort by radio owners and management to elevate the discourse in this country. We're on a fast track to the bottom of the barrel. here and someone has to do something about it.

I'm not talking politics here. There are many right-wing shows that I enjoy. And a few left-wing shows, too. But a guy like Savage doesn't warrant defending. It is - in my opinion - the definition of hate radio.

If listener-in were posting saying we need kid gloves and "equal time," that I'd disagree with. But if the only way radio can make money is by peddling hate, then maybe they should find a new career.

The industry as a whole deserves better.

- Scott Leffler
- WLVL AM 1340
- WECK AM 1230
- scottleffler.com
 
I guess if you are looking for a reason to "rage" about what's on the radio, indignation will be found where you seek it. Which is precisely the case with the Bill Moyers hatchet-job on "conservative" talk radio. It would be perhaps more legitimate to cloak yourself in rage if the examples Moyers cited were accurate. Most of it wasn't. And many of the quotes and clips were out of context.

C'mon, listener-in. Moyers is hardly a detached or objective observer. He is pursuing an agenda as much as Michael Savage is. This is all about a hail-Mary attempt to revive the Fairness Doctrine so the left can silence popular culture with which it disagrees. Which, by the way, even if Democrats were to force, would not be successful.

This is all about liberal horror and dismay at the abruptly turning tide of politics, at the end of a time when the left has been enjoying quite a pass and a two-year media free ride stemming from an unpopular war and an uncommunicative President. Suddenly: it's stopped working. The left has been counting on a cakewalk to the White House and hegemony in Congress, and is now freaking as they watch it all melt away. Suddenly the November election is a ballgame, and the left wants to silence the standard-bearers of opposing opinion as they scramble to regain their momentum.

The nonsense about how the left has been somehow deprived of its voice in popular media, including radio, has been unmasked for what it is - nonsense. The left has as much access to radio as the right does. If AAR and lefty-talk couldn't sell their views to the general public, that's not the fault of Rush or Hannity. It's because the listening public simply rejected the negative, nihilistic message and lack of content characterizing that programming. Buffalo is instructive. If left-talk can't be made to work on a 50kw fulltime heritage signal, guess it's just not going to fly anywhere, now, is it?

BTW: I think Savage is a divisive jerk. I'm embarassed he has chosen to co-opt my name, and wish he would revert to using his real surname, which is Weiner. It's so much more descriptive.

But count on seeing me in the front lines to defend his right to say what he wants on the radio. This is America. This is the one country on the face of the earth where for 235 years, people don't get punished by government for what they say. Stop trying to force your ideas and let jerks be jerks. The truth always comes out when it's allowed to.
 
Good Night, and Good Luck

What do you think that Edward R. Murrow would do to Michael Savage? Demand equal airtime for Randi Rhodes?

Perhaps Mr. Moyers - as experienced a journalist as exists this side of Mike Wallace - should have followed Mr. Murrow's example instead of concocting a virtual rant.

I agree that the level of discourse has fallen in this country, and I think that people are sick of it. Take a look at the Jack Davis vs. Jon Powers mudbath. Alice Kryzan's masterful campaign ad skewered both of them for wallowing in the muck, and she crushed them both in the Democratic primary. The high road worked.

I think that candidates who focus on issues, and avoid personal attacks will prevail this year. Both parties need to take a look at the Sam Hoyt race, where Hoyt literally got caught with his pants down, but survived because the opposition and/or their surrogates pushed the issue too far.

Almost every poll I've seen says that the public is tired of the politics of division, and want people in office who will work to solve the problems that we all share. Stop squabbling, and give us SOMETHING instead of constantly fighting and delivering NOTHING.

I believe that the radio iconoclasts provide most of their listeners (a small minority of all listeners) with entertainment, but rarely influence their vote on election day. Otherwise, we'd have a Republican Congress and the Democrats wouldn't be able to raise enough nickels to run incessant Obama commercials in the areas they consider to be battleground states.

Mr. Leffler, I respect your opinion, and I find you to be a remarkably even-handed host who's generally reasonable and rational. I'd love to see you kick a certain short wingnut's kiester. Wingnut has a serious head start, more resources, and deeper pockets, but maybe reason will prevail.

PS - Thank your luck stars that you live in NY. Both parties have pretty much put us in the Obama win column, so we'll avoid the political commercial blitz that Pennsylvania, Ohio, and other states have and will continue to have inflicted on them.
 
"If you don't like it, the radio has two knobs you can turn." - G. Carlin

If no one was listening then they wouldn't be talking. Look, I program the Conservative talker in Charlottesville, Virginia, which is frequently called, in a galactic understatement, a "progressive town." (as opposed to a "regressive town" which I recall Buffalo to be... but I digress.) There is also a "progressive talker" in town and I can't tell you how many times larger than their audience mine is, because in the last Arb's they were at exactly zero. It's not a matter of no one believes in their message, it's just that it's not an informative compelling radio format. Face it, progressive talk boils down to; "We should take care of all the poor addled souls that aren't as smart as we are." over-and-over-and-over, interspersed with cracks about how dumb George W. Bush is and how creepy Dick Cheyney is. Even liberals go looking for the 'Sarah McLachlan Channel" after 5 minutes.

Riddle me this: Why has every country that has gone Communist devolved into a military dictatorship almost immediately?

Whazzup Baurle?
Joe Thomas (from across the hall 7 years ago... with Pam, remember?)
1260am and 94.1fm, WCHV
"The People's Republic of Charlottesville"
www.wchv.com
 
Interesting comments. Honestly, I don't see why anyone listens to Michael Savage. I consider myself to be slightly right of center and if I thought of half of what Savage said was true I would be too depressed to get out of bed in the morning. But yes, he does have a right to spew what he wants, stations have a right to air his garbage and everyone else has a right to turn him off if they want. Maybe Jack Davis can buy a station (since he apparently can't buy an election) and air all the left talk anyone could want? ;D
 
John C said:
Maybe Jack Davis can buy a station (since he apparently can't buy an election) and air all the left talk anyone could want? ;D

GREAT line, although I suspect that Mr. Davis has more in common with The Savage Nation than he does with Obama Democrats.
 
Quote=Bob Savage: The truth always comes out when it's allowed to.

Robert, the last line of your post is salient, particularly the phrase "when it's allowed to."

I would cite the presidential race, but don't want this thread to take a hard right or left turn. I also want to maintain (some morsel of) objectivity as I state my case. Some background: The Reagan influenced FCC in 1987 by a 4-0 decision deep-sixed the Fairness Doctrine (not so much a Doctrine as it was a series of regulations) which required like and equal time for opposing opinions. For example, if WXXX-AM broadcast a 15 minute program on the merits of passing the school budget, equal and like time would be provided to those who opposed the school budget. Simple enough. When The Doctrine was overturned, talk radio began to flourish as a viable format, but as it flourished, it turned decidedly rancid on both the local and national scales. It became the Wild West. It also created a format that "saved" AM radio, which was getting its assets kicked by FM. As Rush Limbaugh, arguably the pre-eminent talk radio performer in America, became more popular he spawned countless Rush sound-alikes and wannabees in markets all across America. Buffalo alone had two vitriolic local Rush clones in America with guys like Jay R Gache and Rich Michaels. Today, Tom Bauerle.

The Fairness Doctrine isn't likely to return any time soon, at least in the form that it was once cast by the Rules and Regulations of the FCC. There are many reasons for this. As local operators well know, talk radio delivered off the bird is relatively cheap and easy. It's a lot harder to find and develop local talk talent than it is to develop local DJs. Local stations might have little problem hiring graduates of Buffalo State or SUNY Fredonia to DJ a music show for three or four hours a day. But asking that college graduate to carry three hours of talk each day is asking for trouble. First, it takes years of daily grooming to develop (young) talent. Secondly, it's likely that 23 year old will have a completely different world view than the 52 year old client who wants to hear a talk show host re-affirm his belief in aerial wolf hunting and the success of the surge. Hence, stations find it easier and cheaper to import Bill O'Reily, Michael Weiner, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingram and Neil Boortz off the bird.

A participant in a talk radio seminar once opined that if the FCC were to revive The Doctrine, broadcasters should be permitted to accomodate it by executing it within the framework of competitive programming techniques, whereby radio stations would broadcast diverse points of view (e.g., a station would broadcast three hours of Rush and three hours of Schultz during a "like daypart") and subsequently qualify for preferential points at license renewal time. It's an interesting theory, but not one that's likely to come to fruition in today's broadcast structure. Talk radio programmers reject this theory citing the format purity principle (i.e., a CHR format doesn't play Chuck Berry songs.)

However, with new technologies (such as podcasting and cellular platforms such as those discussed in another active thread), there's every possiblity that diversity of opinion could become quite accessible and entertaining, at least for a time. How many years until AM radio stations as we know them are totally obsolete? What's the exit strategy if your an AM operator? What's your 20 year plan? Data? Digital? Band shift? 2028 isn't as far away as it might seem. Afterall, think about how quickly the time has passed since 1988. Heh, hair bands and spandex. Raise your hand if you had a mullet.
 
As a listener I just want the truth. Not the left truth, not the right truth, just THE truth. To the talk hosts who get on the air and blast the media I'd just like to ask, "Aren't you the media too?"

Political talk gets really old after awhile, especially when so much of it is fluff.

I'm all for the Fairness Doctrine. I'd rather see a few radio stations bite the dust rather than our country. The best and most informative talk shows I ever heard were done by a host that presented both sides of an issue.

In this day of the iPod and music on demand I think FM music radio will soon get its assets kicked.
 
listener-in said:
It’s time, broadcasters, to quit your comfortable denial, so step out your bubble and acknowledge that some of what you peddle over the air is hate. Then clean up your act, regardless of whether you think toxic talk is a cause or a symptom. Someone has to break the circle, and it might as well be you. Spare us the BS that these people are entertainers; so were the Romans who threw Christians to the lions. Considering its corrosive effect on our culture, how is this stuff any better than hard-core pornography?


How could the most obvious question continue to go unanswered?

What in the world is wrong with hardcore pornography?
 
Personally I don't listen to talk radio because I don't need someone telling me how to think. I can make up my own mind when it comes to politics and other subjects of interest.
One of the reasons I believe that radio's audience continues to decline is because the general listening public has grown tired of Limbaugh and his mini-me wannabes. It's the same reason that Air America never made it off the ground when it comes to an audience.
Even on television, especially cable TV, we are bombarded on a daily basis with so-called reporters offering their opinions.
 
Personally I don't listen to talk radio because I don't need someone telling me how to think. I can make up my own mind when it comes to politics and other subjects of interest.
One of the reasons I believe that radio's audience continues to decline is because the general listening public has grown tired of Limbaugh and his mini-me wannabes. It's the same reason that Air America never made it off the ground when it comes to an audience.
Even on television, especially cable TV, we are bombarded on a daily basis with so-called reporters offering their opinions.

Things are changing in this world -- and rapidly. Radio/TV sure wasn't like this when I was a kid.

To keep it purely objective, all this oversaturation of talking heads/pundits/whatever you want to call them is a sign of the times. We are living in an increasingly alienated society and a real shift in the way the world works. People are angry and one side blames the other. The media pundits and their employers are more than happy to cash in on this. Everything is becoming more centralized and the relationship between government and the corporate world becomes cozier and more frightening (it seems) with every passing day(look at media consolidation, as one specific example). Did yesterday's big news followed by the market crash give you a jolt? If Orwell was still alive, he'd have a field day in today's world.

I agree, there's a lot of hate talk on the radio. I find much of it repulsive. Complain all your want. It will continue as long as it remains profitable.
 
There are only two states of being when it comes to this issue. There is either a Free Marketplace Of Ideas. Or there is not. Period.

The slippery slope here has a 50% incline and is greased with silicone and sports a permanent tailwind. You either allow citizens to express all ideas - even repellent ones - or we allow government to decide what we discuss. It's either a rock 'em, sock 'em boisterous, sometimes nasty, sometimes irreverent, sometimes tasteless public square - or it's George Orwell's Ministry Of Truth.

There is NO in-between. NOTHING.

Just remember, all of you who advocate for government limits on the content of public discourse: this year Louise Slaughter or Maurice Hinchey or Harry Reid or Chuck Schumer might be in charge. But once your dialogue controls are firmly imposed from the top down by government, the political tide could change, and your ideas might be edited by Karl Rove, or Dick Cheney, or some other liberal-left bete noir.

DISCLAIMER: of course there must always be a very short, highly defined list of very specific exceptions, such as incitement to riot, recruiting children for pornography and so forth. But that's it, if you're interested in preserving one of our centrally basic freedoms.
 
Re: Rage on Main Street

Just remember, "the fundamentals of our economy are strong." -John McCain, 9/15/08, c. 11 a.m. Tell that to the shareholders of Entercom, Cumulus, Sirius, Citadel and Regent. It ain't about lipstick. It's the economy, stupid.
 
"A participant in a talk radio seminar once opined that if the FCC were to revive The Doctrine, broadcasters should be permitted to accomodate it by executing it within the framework of competitive programming techniques, whereby radio stations would broadcast diverse points of view (e.g., a station would broadcast three hours of Rush and three hours of Schultz during a "like daypart") and subsequently qualify for preferential points at license renewal time."

Actually, that's pretty much how it all worked back in the day, with stations fielding opinionated hosts from all directions, working in a lefty-righty rotation like a well balanced staff of starting pitchers, with one thing in common that tied the whole station sound together...they were all energetic, intelligent and entertaining, whatever their point of view. That's the precise formula that once made KABC the highest-billing station in America between about 1980 and the mid-1990s, when they made a hard right turn and fell off the track (with bad consequences for ratings and revenue). It also worked well, and profitably, for East Coast stations like WMCA, WCAU-AM and the old WRC. When talk stations lost that plan and went politically monotone, they polarized the audience, drove off most of the 25-54 women they used to pull in, and we ended up with the talk radio we have today.

For a while it got a lot of sampling and a lot of 12+ for AM stations that needed to make a sharp transition from full service AC to talk. You have to wonder, though, if that time has passed and it's time for a new, personality-driven post-partisan talk if the medium wants to stay alive.
 
Much Ado About...

The biggest problem with the "Fairness" Doctrine is trying to determine "Fairness". You think that the FCC's actions concerning indecency are confusing? Imagine them trying to determine which of the myriad points of view on a particular issue should be considered for inclusion in a "fairness" issue.

Is "fairness" only the Democrats & Republicans? What about the Liberals and Conservatives? Green Party and American White People's Party? Crips & Bloods?

There is no dearth of outlets for political expression available. Radio is just on ever-shrinking segment of the media, and I doubt that there's a talk station in WNY that draws 2% of the available audience (rating points) at one time. Media itself makes a bigger deal out of talk radio than the audience does. Most people just roll their eyes at the latest water-cooler comment and carry on with their lives.

In my estimation, this is much ado about very little. The majority of people who it either attracts or annoys are political junkies who have plenty of other places to find opinions that either reflect their own, or provide them with targets for their diatribes.
 
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