Raising The Topic

[Radknowski]

<font face="times new roman" size="3" color="330066">Saw this buried in a thread below and thought it was worthwhile. As has been done by a few posters before, I thought I'd "bring it up again."</font>

Miles posted:

Yes, there were stations that "were too hip for the room," back then. And yes, there were a great many DJ's who could get annoying. But there were also many legendary stations that staffed with Geniune TALENT and entertainers who were just as good to listen to as the music they played 'round the clock. Even if you didn't like one particular song, you knew you'd like the next one, or the jock would say something worth listening to.

Nowadays the Casey Casem's, Cousin' Brucies etc are all being "eased out" to make room for a generation of young listeners/talent that has no manners, blames everything on everybody else, has no work ethic and wants it all right now. If they can't download their latest "dribbling wee-wees" CD onto their stupid ipods in 2 seconds, it's a "catastrophy." AWWW POOR BABIES!!!!!

We used to laugh at hearing "Kroger Radio" in their stores. NOW, it sounds better than half of the radio stations out there. What passes for "personality"
on both TV and radio is some loser trying to cram the word "ass" into every sentence. (Yeah, that takes a lot of real "TALENT") And FORGET about reliable news or weather coverage.

If a tornado is bearing down on your city, you'll hear some voice-tracked "tool" with a nasaly wimpy voice telling you "heeeyyyy, it's a great day for the beach." Most of the dweebs on the air couldn't get through a newscast. Even the older jocks could do THAT when called for in an emergency.

Yes, we've made great progress. You can't convince me that one of these major companies didn't BRIBE. I'll say it again, BRIBE the right people in Washington into allowing one owner to control 5-6-7 radio stations in ONE market. Oh, they'll deny it to their dying day, but how is THIS "better serving
us?!" With a medium that has been systematically killed? No wonder people are going to internet.

What's left these days? Lifeless IPOD POO POO on a once-great 100KW station!!! Between the no-talent/no dues-paying hacks who can't perform live (ASHLEE SIMPSON) who pass for "great talent" and the idiots who love them in positions of radio management. No wonder radio is in trouble.

MY, what progress we've made!!!! As much as we love to talk about equal rights for females, our media now bombards us with the message that to become "great," all you've gotta do is show your (BLEEP) on TV or "leak out" a video of you having sex!!

As much as we love to talk a great game about "serving the public," we have stations on autopilot with a crappy-computer voice telling us about tornadoes, IF IT EVEN COMES ON AT ALL!!!!

Instead of people who cared about our radio markets and busted their butts to sound great EVERY DAY, we have little brats running IPODS who think that everybody over 45 automatically starts shopping around for an "old folks home." This is NOT the same "generation gap" we faced years ago.

Respect is DEAD when it comes to our schools and discipline in the home, so we may as well finish killing off media as we knew it too! If you don't believe me, take a good look around. It's in the news everyday, once they get past the latest "Paris Hilton" story.

 

[majicrockstar]

Thanks Rad for showing everyone why radio is slowly slipping away!!! With the great additude toward the next generation is it any wonder why the medium is slowly fading away!! And with people like yourself Rad who care nothing about the next generation, radios fate as we know it is all but sealed!!

Mike you wont live forever, neither will your generation!! At what point will you get it through your head that radio has to change to survive! And in order to survive it has to go after the next generation...


Alot of people listen to the radio for the music!! Is radio giving them the music they want? If it is why are so many going to XM? Can you tell me Rad? Explain it!

 

[Radknowski]

If you cannot distinguish between innovation and mediocrity, you're nothing but a hopeless cheerleader.

When I was in the business, I successfully mentored and helped a number of students and interns become successful professionals.

What's your excuse?
>

 

[radio_is_dead]

But there were also many legendary stations
> that staffed with Geniune TALENT and entertainers who were
> just as good to listen to as the music they played 'round
> the clock.


Debateable. People always listened for the music. Who the heck remembers or cares about the attempts at cleverness a wanna-be celebrety hack said 20 years ago? People remember the songs. I doubt any high school reunions run airchecks on the sound system.



If they can't download their latest "dribbling
> wee-wees" CD onto their stupid ipods in 2 seconds, it's a
> "catastrophy." AWWW POOR BABIES!!!!!

Sounds like someone's bitter, or maybe can't afford one. Most likely, he's too stupid to figure out how to turn it on or where to plug in the headphones. WHAT NO BUILT-IN SPEAKERS?!?!


> Instead of people who cared about our radio markets and
> busted their butts to sound great EVERY DAY, we have little
> brats running IPODS who think that everybody over 45
> automatically starts shopping around for an "old folks
> home." This is NOT the same "generation gap" we faced years
> ago.

Maybe if the same 10 songs weren't repeated every hour intrrupted by 10-15 minutes of commercials for crap we dont want...
And did anyone ever give a crap about the markets? Or did they want GOOD MUSIC?


>
> Respect is DEAD when it comes to our schools and discipline
> in the home, so we may as well finish killing off media as
> we knew it too! If you don't believe me, take a good look
> around. It's in the news everyday, once they get past the
> latest "Paris Hilton" story.

Puh-leeze.

Face it, the times left you behind you bitter old fool. Its always been about the music, and now the radio phonies are being flushed out as the frauds most of them are. When the music and playlists suck (as they do now), people will tune you out. Sorry to bust the bubble, but its ALWAYS been only about the music and y'all were just whoring off of the ride of the great musical talents, and now that free ride is over and you realize how worthless you were.

Who was it that said "the times they are a-changin'?" Some other old guy I suppose. Embrace change or be left behind.

 

[alw]

Why do these things have to decay into snotty little personal attacks?

By the way, sat. radio is not a threat to radio.....it IS radio.
Simply another way of delivering content.
Just as Cable is not a threat to TV.....it IS TV.

If the threat is IPOD....just figure out how to use it to your advantage.

All things change and it's incumbant upon us all to change as well, or go away.

There is no reason to believe that music and speech will (or should) always be delivered via terrestrial analog airwaves. If things get boring on AM & FM....let's do it via sat. or the web.

Is radio as much fun as it once was?.....probably not!
But then again, neither am I.

So the only answer is to do the best we can do with what we've got, and try to make what small improvements we can with the weapons we have.

Personal sniping solves nothing and makes us all sound like a bunch of........
Disk Jockeys!

 

[SirRoxalot]

Whew!

> Who the heck remembers or cares about the attempts at cleverness a
> wanna-be celebrety hack said 20 years ago? People remember
> the songs. I doubt any high school reunions run airchecks
> on the sound system.

You're apparently too young to remember when jocks were as much a part of the entertainment as the music. You'd be surprised at how many "high school reunions" hire guys to run the sound system who can still recreate those days. Just ask Taylor & Moore, or check out some of the WKBW radio history sites. Even podcasts are a means of allowing creative people to entertain, mixing music & entertainment in a way that attracts listeners.

> Maybe if the same 10 songs weren't repeated every hour
> intrrupted by 10-15 minutes of commercials for crap we dont
> want...
> And did anyone ever give a crap about the markets? Or did
> they want GOOD MUSIC?

You've made a major point here. Consultants with cookie-cutter formats, tight playlists, liner cards, and 9-minute stopsets have gutted radio as an entertainment medium. The Jack effect shows that much broader playlists can work. Talk radio shows that personalities can work. Clear Channel's "Less is More" has helped their ratings. Why do managers and consultants have such a hard time believing that a wider range of music, with personalities to add entertainment content, can work?

There's still some very good radio out there. Just not enough of it.

>> Respect is DEAD when it comes to our schools and
>> discipline in the home, so we may as well finish killing off
>> media as we knew it too!
>
> Face it, the times left you behind you bitter old fool. Its
> always been about the music, and now the radio phonies are
> being flushed out as the frauds most of them are. When the
> music and playlists suck (as they do now), people will tune
> you out. Sorry to bust the bubble, but its ALWAYS been only
> about the music and y'all were just whoring off of the ride
> of the great musical talents, and now that free ride is over
> and you realize how worthless you were.

Well, I seem to recall the respect tendered to the older generation in the late 60s and 70s. Something about "Don't trust anybody over 30". "Up the Revolution" - in sex, education, politics, relationships, employment - you name it, we broke or rewrote the rules. We became "buddies" instead of "parents". We created an educational system that prevented failure and discounted achievement. "Mainstreaming" meant bright kids were held back by the capabilities of less talented students. We have made it unpalatable for a lot of talented people to run for office, lest their pasts be exhumed and trotted out in front of the slavering electorate. Relationships are more about individuals than couples. Companies pursue profit at all costs, destroying loyalty by either management or employees. We have "friends with benefits" instead of "making love".

Radio_is_dead is apparently a product of our own loins. The iPod is nothing more than a smaller cassette player with more songs - and about the same quality. Instead of ripping off your friends' albums, you rip off your friends' mp3s. Yeah, it's faster and easier now, but isn't everything?

Successful stations still offer variety, and entertain their audiences. Al W is right in his assessment that the delivery system is less important than the content.

I'm waiting for some smart young programmer to create the next "Futuresonic Radio". Of course, it will probably start on the Internet (like Jack), or as a niche format intended to slice a share or two off the competition. It will be live and local, and will pique the interest of the "cool" people. It will feature new artists and help people find and appreciate music they've never heard before.

And, parents will HATE it.

 

[majicrockstar]

Reinventing The Topic!!!!!

> If you cannot distinguish between innovation and mediocrity,
> you're nothing but a hopeless cheerleader.

Hmmm!!! I guess your right Mike.. Ra Ra Ra Sis Boom Bah!!!

> When I was in the business, I successfully mentored and
> helped a number of students and interns become successful
> professionals.

Now who is the cheerleader!

> What's your excuse?

My excuse is that I love music! I love radio! I love the fact that terrestrial Radio is a free medium for all to listen.. It doesnt matter who you are or what you do, anybody can tune in at any time whether it be music, talk, or the "Saturday blues" on WBFO. Whatever it may be it is free!!

But what stinks, is the fact that the current product terrestrial radio is transmitting is boring and predictable!

The medium is living in the past, weather it be rehashing old overplayed hits, or cramming some clown telling stupid jokes between every song down our throats...It upsets me that the current radio industry doesnt wake up and smell the coffee! They are losing many valuable "advertiser listening" listeners to XM everyday! And they will continue to lose more and more each year becuase they are blind to the future.

Will Narrow playlists, cheesey recurrents, and recycled Blah Blah Blah everyday keep the medium alive? No, it will end up being the nail in the coffin.. Am I all for pulling the plug on all the heritige stations, Top 40, oldies, or classic rock stations? No! Do I want to see radio bannish all of its hard working DJs to never never land? No! But they have to start taking some risks, maybe even extreme risks, to break out of the prison cell that the consultant wardens have locked them up in..

Like it or not, most everyone will be listening to there tunes on a satilite station within the next few years.. There is nothing terrestrial can do to stop it, its just the evolution of the technology..But, they can start making some bold moves that will make the ordinary listener ditch the moon tunes for a while and tune in again.. They can be more inovative, creative and experimental! They can put people on the air that actually know what the hell they are playing..Personalities that know the music, love the music, breathe, eat and sleep the music.. Personalities that can be somewhat free of the liner card happey talk contraints! Free to play some of what they like, free to listen to there audience and interact with them free to actually be human.. Free to actually Play a true request, or a local artist. Basicly free to be themsleves and in turn encouraging them to be more creative.. Offer somthing that satilite cant (not local weather or EBS alerts or school closings) interaction, a voice that talks to you, not at you..

Be the ones breaking the new arttists, be the breading ground for the hip and the new.. Take some risks and make a splash, hell make an explosion! They shouldnt need an ad blitz or billboards to do that, word of mouth will make it bigger and that much hipper anyways! And continue to evolve and change as to not fall back into the status quo! This goes for all the the current forms of terrestrial radio.. Its time they imagined more then just a little bit out of the box, they need to burn the box and run like hell...

The only way they will be able to compete with satilite is to not compete! cuase in the long run they will ultimatley lose.. Just go out and totaly reinvent the whole thing, make it cool and trendsetting... Make it a completely different enviorment from what it is now...They need to be a choice on the car, home or work reciever that people want to make!! Cuase in the the long run fellas that is the only way they will remain relevant in the listeners life! If traditional radio loses that relevance in the everyday persons life it will basicly seal its own fate...I for one would hate to ever see traditional radio become a relic of what once was! A blip in the history books...

Do I believe that my way is the right way? No, but a reinvention in whatever shape or form is the only way the medium we all love will live on..

Feel free to slam me, ridicule me, or make some half ass atempt at a joke, but I would love to hear all of your thoughts and opinions..


I guess thats my excuse MIKE!! I still care about this bizz, when most people my age could care less about it..

 

[Yeziknoradio]

Re: Reinventing The Topic!!!!!

MagicRockStar, we all have our opinions, and I'm not knocking yours, but I think part of the problem is the decision to avoid listener requests.

The more I try to support the idea, the more I get told that it's only 5 percent of the listener base that makes a request anyway, and how no one really cares to make a request anymore.

I don't know about you, but if Jack doesn't start taking requests, I'm finally going to buy an ipod...a good one too. I'm tired of Radio in Buffalo telling the listener (expecially Jack) that if you have a request, to just F*** off.<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>

 

[majicrockstar]

Re: Reinventing The Topic!!!!!

Infinitys way of putting themselves out of the radio biz..Ignore the people and they will ignore you! Quit telling us this is the way it is becuase you researched it, Id like to meet the guy that went door to door asking everyone his or her thoughts on what this town needs"Bull@#$%". Quit telling us its all a formula, and that its all about the target audience! That audience will all be gone due to this "We know what you want, and what works" syndrome.. If these guys have any idea what works they wouldnt be stearing the titanic toward the icey waters...Throw all the paint and wallpaper you want on it, switch the furniture around all you want, the bottom line is its gonna sink! Like I said before the only way to save it is to reinvent it!! Make it meaningful, before it becomes meaningless..

 

[SirRoxalot]

Focus, Group!

> Quit telling us this is the way it is becuase you researched it...
> Make it meaningful, before it becomes meaningless..

Take it from somebody who's been there. Listener requests are too often repetitive, or so far out of the range of music played that they don't fit the radio station. If you go by requests, 97-Rock would be playing MORE Pink Floyd, Zeppeling, and Lynyrd Skynyrd.

That doesn't mean that research hasn't gutted radio. Think about this:

If we'd had market research in 1954, Rock & Roll would never have been born.

Rock & Roll was born because some young, talented guys (The Hound, Alan Freed)put on some records that grabbed their attention. The TOLD the listeners that they should check this out. They played the same record 4 or 5 times in a row in some cases to create familiarity. They had some misses, but they had a lot of hits, and a new genre of music was born. They took feedback from listeners - not requests, feedback, and built an audience through creative presentation.

Radio programmers are now absolutely convinced that you have to play familiar music. The mantra is "What you don't play won't hurt you." I submit that this is false. Market research has reduced playlists to a few hundred songs. On-air people have become announcers instead of personalities. Programmers use canned liners and jingles far more often than live personalites during transitions from song-to-song, or song-to-commercial. And oh, those commercials - 7, 8, 9 minutes per stopset, clustered 2 or 3 times an hour.

People tell you that jocks are a problem. Bullsh*t. Jocks who have nothing to say, aren't allow to say anything, or can't figure out a creative way of relating the messages they need to pass onto the listeners are the problem. There are no Jeff Kaye's out there developing talent - sometimes with scathing memos, incisive criticism, and fear, and sometimes with encouragement and a demand that the jock present his material concisely and creatively. People actually tuned in to HEAR the disk jockey, and hits were made because a jock promoted a record. Yeah, sometimes they got paid to promote a record, which was the basis of the payola scandal(s). But, no matter how much you promote it, a stiff is still a stiff.

Jack is interesting because it breaks the rules for tight playlists, and is having the effect of broadening the playing field for everybody. Jack sucks because there is no "air personality" to smooth over the train wreck music selections. It's interesting that Fickle gets its best numbers when there are live announcers.

Good grief, you're considered a huge hit if you can attract 10% of the audience that's actually listening. If you can attract 2% of the available audience, you'll be a radio god. Somewhere, there are creative people who will create a bigger buzz than iPod, satellite, and today's formulaic radio. I think it will come from the Internet, which will supplant satellite as a music delivery system for the masses within 5-10 years.

 

[majicrockstar]

Re: Focus, Group!

Its the Jocks that helped make music what it is today, basicly they single handadly created what todays radio comps. make all there money off of..Now if the comps. could grasp that, they might just figure out what will turn the biz around.
Free Form is an art done right!

 

[Element9]

Re: Focus Individual!

What I know of radio: The masses may be asses, but even asses know when they're being spanked.

I don't know where this business is going in the next ten years, but I have a few educated guesses: Satellite, terrestrial cell and Internet. FM will not die, nor will it go away. Too many companies and too many shareholders have billions of dollers invested in it for that to happen. Too many lives depend on it as a source of income, and though this may draw guffaws from guys like Radknowski, there are too many bright, talented managers, programmers, jocks and sales people in the business to allow it to wither on the vine.

We may be seeing the disolution of the Arbitron diary, the primary device used to account for one person's listening patterns. Diaries, upon further testing, may soon be replaced by PPM's which are digital devices capable of tracking listeners' radio and Internet habits. The PPM, more than anything, may be the break that terrestrial AM-FM radio needs to re-shape and re-define its product line. The negative aspect may be that it could provide managers and programmers with anecdotal information that will be erroneously interpreted and applied to the product. Some will argue this has been going on for years anyway, so what difference will it make. The difference is, Arbitron ratings information derived from diaries is dated material, yesterday's news. PPM information can be retrieved and forwarded in a week, if not a day, much like television overnight ratings. Like the zeros and ones in your digital camera memory stick, the PPM information will be instantly downloadable and acted upon.

I have been listening to 97 Rock and Q-107 for many years. Recently, I've added The Lake and Jack to my car radio choices (there are 18 of them). But the station that has surprised and entertained me is WHTT, especially with its new shuffle feature at night and now at noon. The station is playing songs that are almost disparate in nature, yet compatible with the station's greatest hits format, from songs like Desperado by the Eagles, Dreams by Fleetwood Mac and Golden Slumbers by the Beatles to quirky hits like Undercover Angle by Allan O'Day and Come And Get Your Love by Redbone.

The most important element in this shuffle feature, however, is the presence of a local personality who weaves the music together and makes sense of it. There's actually a voice, Joe Siragussa at night and Jim Pastrick in midday, that tells the listener what they're hearing or have heard. In some cases, there's a succinct tie in with an artist or group that's touring or current event that adds to the song's relevance. Whether it's pre-programmed or by chance, I've actually heard some thematic songs as well: Baby Love and My Baby loves Lovin' were songs that played side by side a few days ago which the jock made note of the theme linking both songs. This live (or in some cases, voice-tracked) local ingredient is what makes the difference between stations like Jack, Mike, Bob and Fickle and the market leaders like WTRK, 97 Rock, WJYE, WHTT and Star.

Jack and friends may indeed make some gains and have success, but I will wager cents to CDs that there will be a plateau effect in six to 18 months that people like Mike Doyle will see... and they won't need a consultant to tell them what's necessary to fix the problem.

 

[majicrockstar]

You have said it best ROX!

Despite my diferences with you, I do have to say that is the best overveiw of todays "State of radio" I have read...You really hit the nail on the head with the DJ being the one everyone likes to blame, and the damn parring down of music playlists. Its easy to be more criticle of what we hear and not what we see or know (IE. Corp policies, liner cards, rules and regs, consultants.).

One question though! Did you leave the bizz becuase of these things, or did they not appreciate a logistacle, and dead on accurate appraisal of todays radio formula?

 

[SirRoxalot]

Re: You have said it best ROX!

> One question though! Did you leave the bizz becuase of these
> things, or did they not appreciate a logistacle, and dead on
> accurate appraisal of todays radio formula?

Who says I'm out of radio?

Let's just say some of my views have not appreciated by some of the con-sultants that passed through my life.

 

[Desi_Bell]

Re: You have said it best ROX!

Also, let's not forget that the DJ, being on the front line, is always the first to go. The PD protects his/her job at all costs, but if the format proves itself over time not to work he or she will get the axe while somehow the consultant remains in place. I worked once at a station where the general manager referred IN A STAFF MEETING to the DJs/personalities (that's what we were then) as PIECES OF MEAT.
Nothing's changed in 35 years, has it?

 

[SirRoxalot]

Re: You have said it best ROX!

> I worked once at a station where the general manager referred
> IN A STAFF MEETING to the DJs/personalities (that's what we were then)
> as PIECES OF MEAT. Nothing's changed in 35 years, has it?

One day you're fillet mignon, the next day you're ground chuck. All I can say is that I'm still astounded by the story that Jack Armstrong, who RULED Eastern America, left KB because they wouldn't bump his pay from $19-grand to the $22-grand he asked for. So, we ended up with The Janitor.