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Ralph Barbieri's Comments at SFGate

He was fired in the same class-less way the people at KGO were fired. He said it took just 7 minutes between getting called into the manager's office and being escorted out of the building. When he checked his station voicemail he learned there were 10 messages but his passcode had been changed so he couldn't access it.

Cumulus may know or not know what they're doing when it comes to running radio stations, but they certainly don't know how to make or keep friends. If there's anything I've learned in the business world is that you NEVER NEVER NEVER burn your bridges with people you've worked with, if for no other reason than that your ascending star will begin falling some day, and you may end up working for the guy you fired.

Ralph's comments: http://blog.sfgate.com/sportsevents...bieris-response-to-being-fired-by-knbr/?tsp=1
 
It's pretty much that way at Clear Channel from what was reported when Bryan Simmons was let go at KOST. He was a 3 decade employee and had to clear his stuff out that night and from what we've read about other firings at CC he was lucky to leave with his belongings that night. I heard from a friend who knows him that his email and voice mail were blocked before he even left the building.

I understand that when someone is let go who is an on-air talent that you don't want them back on the air, but the least they could do is let them get any important emails or voice mails with say a 2 or 3 hour window to wrap up their business. At least when KOIT let Laurie Sanders go after 2 decades of service they let her voice track a final show to say goodbye.

Some of these companies have little heart when dismissing a long time, loyal employee whose only crime is perhaps making too much money...
 
calguy said:
I understand that when someone is let go who is an on-air talent that you don't want them back on the air, but the least they could do is let them get any important emails or voice mails with say a 2 or 3 hour window to wrap up their business. At least when KOIT let Laurie Sanders go after 2 decades of service they let her voice track a final show to say goodbye.

Having been both an employer and an employee I can see both sides. As an employer you want to get rid of bad people immediately and not let them poison the business by speaking badly of it or coming to work and badmouthing the company with other employees.

That's if you have to get rid of BAD PEOPLE. But in all the cases cited so far, the hosts and DJs have all put in years of good service, did the company's bidding, and were not only unceremoniously let go, but kicked out. This is just plain BAD.

In another forum I suggested what I'd have done, given the same situation: Given them a party to acknowledge their many years of service. "Our station is going in a different direction, so unfortunately we have had to let John Doe go, but we're here to commemorate his many years of service to our company and to present him with his severance check, a party, our gratitude, and this little token of our appreciation, a gold statuette (or watch or blooper CD or whatever)"

In this way, the station would make the parting as pleasant as possible and keep a positive attitude all around. Heck, in the future those laid off would likely speak respectfully of the company and perhaps do something that could help the company or at least its managers in the future. You just never know what good things are possible. But, Cumulus has stuck their foot into dogshit and are tramping it all over people. This will never create anything positive or useful for them or their managers.

I remember the Ron Reynolds and Ron Lyons worked together as each other's bosses and co-workers and whatnot over the years. Some years back, Reynolds had to fire Lyons due to a change in format direction. Having been friends and having mutual respect for each other over the years, it was not a matter of acrimony, and both men realized it was simply a business matter. There were no hard feelings and I'm sure they remained friends.

Hell, there's enough ill-will, bad feelings, and acrimony in the world without purposely being rude to people, making them feel like outcasts, and rubbing their noses in it.

I think I'm going to send this over to Cumulus while I'm at it. I think they need to read it, tough in my opinion, once a clod always a clod...

--dk
 
Wasn't he fired the same way at KGO back in the 80's? If his contract ends in Novemberer, do they have to continue to pay him until then?
 
HCochet said:
Wasn't he fired the same way at KGO back in the 80's? If his contract ends in Novemberer, do they have to continue to pay him until then?

I'm pretty sure it was him. He worked at KGO (on air, talking sports) and was fired. He wasn't allowed to say good-bye on the air. However, shortly after that Ralph called the Ray Taliaferro Show and Ray allowed him to say what he wanted. The thing I remember most is that Ralph said something like "if I wanted/expected job security, I wouldn't have gotten in the radio business".

I think it really sucks the way employees are forced out within minutes of being notified. They should be given a little time to clean out their desk, take the photo off the wall and say bye to everyone. Maybe get a phone number from the janitor who you always speak to and promise to keep in touch. Maybe tell the guy at the desk that you might not be able to play golf/tennis tomorrow. Maybe you need to get your ham sandwich from the refrigerator. Maybe someone would like to give you your stapler back. Maybe it would be neat to be able to write "Ralph was here 1984 - 4/9/2012" on the ceiling in the corner.
It's not the fireing that bugs me. It's the way it was done. I guess if you'e in radio, you beter make sure you have money put away and if possible, always have a few back up plans.
 
Years ago when KSAN fired PD Lee Logan (when ratings were killer), Julie the GM, gave him a going away party but made the mistake of saying Lee, we'll miss you, you're irreplacable...!

If that was true why replace him? Go Figure.

Jerry Gordon
 
The New Programming tactics that Ralph went through is the same traumatic slop hundreds of DJs, support staff and have air personalities have already experienced here in the Bay Area and across the nation. Ralph's just the latest to get the axe. (The radio Union, AFTRA, is pitifully powerless, looking out only for itself and its monogrammed shirt wearing reps, certainly not caring for its lower dues paying radio members as much as the bigger buck TV stations. They betrayed and deserted KOIT when it was crucial. Now look at it.)

Radio ain't the same anymore. Stations, sold by broadcaster-owners to corporations that not only know NOTHING about their audiences or the craft of show business or presentation, while aiming for an imagined bottom line, today sound as cold as the paperwork hearts with which they have been transplanted.

Personalities with experience make the New corporate version of Programming look bad, makes 'em realize they don't know anything about the business. They hate that. Thus we hear less live and increasingly more imported "content" from out of town shops. Recordings are easier on the budget that actual people.

Sorry Ralph that it happened to you, too. You had a long run.

So did I. Close to 35 years on and off at KFRC, then boom. The corporation that bought it replaced me, their signature voice, with a lower priced brand without even bothering to inform me. I had to hear the other voice on the radio; it wasn't until A WEEK later that someone from KFRC, with freshly clipped gonads, called and informed me that it wasn't his decision and I was history. That belated phone call was my gold watch.

I don't like the way it ended but I have too many great memories to spend time in bitterness. Who is there to resent? The so-called bad guys who booted me were also hacheted a little further down the line. Besides, I have discovered how lucrative online marketing is and how I can use all my broadcasting skills world wide.

Don't be surprised, Ralph, if you hear of the same folks who escorted you out of the building being let go themselves in a few weeks or a few months; they're salaries are too high. getting rid of the hit man also saves money. And THAT'S the New Programming.

Besides, now you and I will have time for a few bites and stories. I got a million of 'em and I bet you do too.
 
Radio is a drug. When you're on it, everything is great. When you're no longer on the air, and in cold turkey, everything sucks. The user blames the person who took away his drug. But it's all from the POV of an addict.
 
skyrocker said:
Radio ain't the same anymore. Stations, sold by broadcaster-owners to corporations that not only know NOTHING about their audiences or the craft of show business or presentation, while aiming for an imagined bottom line, today sound as cold as the paperwork hearts with which they have been transplanted.

It's not necessarily a matter of being non-broadcast corporations, per se. Remember that RKO General, the owner of KFRC, KHJ, CKLW, WRKO, etc., in their heydays, was General Tire and Rubber Company. Their main business was selling tires. ("Some day you'll own; some day you'll own; sooner or later you'll own Generals...") Until the Drake/Chenault entry, RKO General had been coasting along with barely profitable stations, content mainly to sell tires.

And on the other hand you have broadcasters like Clear Channel, which actually has a history mainly as a broadcaster, and yet until Cumulus arrived on the scene, people loved to hate Clear Channel.

And there are those folks who loathe CBS (current KFRC owner) and its tactics, and yet CBS, which is really Westinghouse, has a broadcasting history that goes back to the very BEGINNINGS of radio. But even back in the 1970s, Westinghouse was accused of being cheap -- just ask anybody who worked at KPIX in those days. KPIX was the last to get color cameras for their local news shows!

No, what's changed is that corporations IN GENERAL are ruthless. One could say that it began with Steve Jobs in his discussion with Pepsi's John Sculley as Sculley was about to take over as Apple CEO. "What kind of retirement plan do you have?" Steve laughs, "We don't have any retirement plan. We burn out our people before they're old enough to retire!"

Lots of people read John Sculley's book, and corporate America took its lessons to heart. Likewise offshoring of manufacturing can also be laid at the feet of Steve Jobs and Apple.

Corporate America has changed and Apple is largely to blame for it. All hail Steve Jobs.
 
DavidKaye said:
No, what's changed is that corporations IN GENERAL are ruthless.

That hasn't changed either. Corporations were always ruthless, especially with regards to employees. That's why unions were formed. What's changed is that no one is representing employees any more. As noted earlier, the unions are now in bed with the companies. AFTRA is siding with the RIAA against broadcasters in the performance royalty debate. That doesn't help the poor broadcasters represented by AFTRA. And now that they've merged with SAG, that union is all but done with broadcasting. So broadcasters are on their own.

What hurts broadcasting employees even more is the overabundance of potential employees. Supply and demand, folks. When you have an unending supply, and demand is dropping, price goes down. That's where broadcast employees are now.
 
Does anyone really think that merging SAG & AFTRA will really help the rank & file union members. AFTRA has been notoriously weak for the last 30 years or more. It was stronger 30 years ago, but still headed down the wrong path. Many of those that were union negotiators rolled over so fast that deejays were still wondering what the heck happened when they would see the actual agreed upon details. The union just kept giving up. The radio companies brought in savvy sharks to be their negotiators, while the union brought some real weak people to the table. When CC literally exploded in size after the AM/FM merger, the union was afraid because most of the CC stations were non-union and AFTRA felt it didn't have the power to fight. They also thought that they could take a cluster land bring the stations in the cluster that weren't union into AFTRA and then negotiate one contract for the cluster instead of the individual stations. This tactic failed miserably. AFTRA continues to fail in most conflicts. Only when they bring in the NLRB to they get anywhere... Working in radio is no longer the well paying job that it was in major markets in years past. Face it, we're on the run, in decline and getting screwed by big business. Listen to those who post on Radio-Info. Most will tell you that deregulation was needed to keep station from failing and going dark. I believe it's a bull&*%$ tactic. Look at the GM's and upper management. They're all still making above average money, buying big houses and driving luxury cars. They still have the cash to overpay people like Rush and Seacrest to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, but can't pay a board op much beyond minimum wage. And if you're part time, they will hold you to 29 hours or less a week so they don't have to pay any benefits. If your a PT employee you HAVE to work another job to even survive, but if you get a call to come in and can't because of that other job you'll find yourself out on the street pretty fast. They want loyalty from you, but can't return any loyalty to you.... Now they want to rid themselves of the very personalities that helped them succeed. Of course many of these people being let go because of high salaries are older as well and if you don't think there is age discrimination going on, you're nuts. Just read the post from those on this site who constantly put down older talent as over the hill even when they're bringing in high PPM ratings and revenue... I believe it's just one more reason major markets now resemble small and medium markets in quality. The newer people have zero training and it shows.... It's not their fault when all the small towns are voice tracked and there's no farm system in place anymore.... Radio blows and after over 30 years I'm looking to get out and find an industry that still gives a s&^#. Yeah, good luck there when all you've done is radio... Bitter, me? Yeah...
 
calguy said:
Look at the GM's and upper management. They're all still making above average money, buying big houses and driving luxury cars. They still have the cash to overpay people like Rush and Seacrest to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, but can't pay a board op much beyond minimum wage.

I learned a long time ago that no one is going to pay me a lot of money to have fun. They pay big money to people who do the stuff no one wants to do. Any DJ can get into the management track. Most don't want to because it's not fun. I know several, including Charlie Morgan in Indianapolis, who made the move from morning jock to management. It wasn't easy for him. He had to make some tough decisions. But he's the one who makes the decisions, rather than being on the receiving end. Same with ownership. In this country, if you take risk with money, you have a chance of reaping big rewards. If you stick with the safe route, a salary with benefits, that's all you're entitled to, and only for as long as the boss allows. No one prevents anyone from becoming an owner, as we've learned from Randy Michaels. The people at KGO all had long runs. They all got paid top dollar for basically sitting in a chair talking. They led blessed lives, and they should be thankful for that time.
 
calguy said:
Most will tell you that deregulation was needed to keep station from failing and going dark. I believe it's a bull&*%$ tactic.

For ever and ever... going back to the 50's... about half of US radio stations failed to show a profit. The data in the 50's through the 70's was particularly credible as it came from the required FCC filings. Later, it was NAB survey data and independent sources, but in the years after Docket 80-90, it did nothing except get worse.

There are a lot of barely sustainable stations today. Radio revenue is off about 30% compared to 2007, and the 1999-2007 period had growth that was slower than inflation. So, in 2012 radio is off, in real dollars, as much as 40% compared with the year 1998 (prior to the dot bomb).

Look at the GM's and upper management. They're all still making above average money, buying big houses and driving luxury cars.

If you are in a difficult business, you need the best management. If you don't pay well as a station, talented folks will go to your competitor. If you don't pay well as an industry, you will loose talented folks to other media or other industries.

They still have the cash to overpay people like Rush and Seacrest to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, but can't pay a board op much beyond minimum wage.

Rush and Seacreast represent investments that pay back with a very, very good return on the investment. They are worth the price, just as box office draws get more money for movies than no-names do. Or guys who bat .400 get a lot more than those who bat .200.

There is an endless supply of board ops. With today's technology, the value of a skilled board op is reduced in most situation, so we have an endless potential supply and little demand. That is a formula for minimum wage.

And if you're part time, they will hold you to 29 hours or less a week so they don't have to pay any benefits.

The law, at present, allows this. Generally, when you have positions such as promo techs working part time, increasing the cost simply means eliminating the position. It's a no win situation for both sides, the part timers and the stations.

Now they want to rid themselves of the very personalities that helped them succeed. Of course many of these people being let go because of high salaries are older as well and if you don't think there is age discrimination going on, you're nuts.

While this specific situation is indeed more complex, the fact remains that longer-term employees in addition to being older also tend to make more. And in many cases, they make more than their position is worth in today's radio. So, if positions are going to be eliminated, the biggest savings come from the biggest earners.

Just read the post from those on this site who constantly put down older talent as over the hill even when they're bringing in high PPM ratings and revenue...

When an older person brings in a good return on the investment, I don't see them being eliminated. When the same income can be obtained without the cost, I see them being eliminated as the PPM certainly does not favor yesterday's personality radio... although in some cases, it is the newer generation of listeners who don't like and even reject disk jockeys and favor mixers and blends on music stations.

It's not their fault when all the small towns are voice tracked and there's no farm system in place anymore....

Small markets are on satellite or voice tracked (in larger "small markets") because of Docket 80-90 and the overpopulation of stations in smaller rated and smaller markets. Too many stations, no increase in local revenue, and you get satellite delivered stations... this goes back to the 70's with tape syndication so is not new at all..
 
Remember that RKO General, the owner of KFRC, KHJ, CKLW, WRKO, etc., in their heydays, was General Tire and Rubber Company.

A "red herring" is something a person throws into the middle of a conversation to change its direction. It's like a "diversion" in the movies when they're trying to sneak in or out of a guarded place. Blow up a mailbox two blocks away.

This kind of distraction draws attention away from the main topic which included Ralph Barbieri. It happens here all the time.

But let's look at this thing and see just how fishy it is that RKO sold tires (they sold a LOT of things) - and if it pertains to that which we were ruminating

That corporations and business is changing is NOT where we're at here. We were at the less than human manner in which broadcasters (Ralph being the topic starter here) have been dismissed - without so much as a "thank you," or "nice working with you." By comparison, and that's the mind's primal function, today's radio station owners and their manager toadies are cruel and stupid.

Cruel because they are so preoccupied with their own performance that they forgo their ability to see the people nor their strengths they're working with, and thus the abilities in all their complexity are ignored, the people viewed as an obstacle to profits, no more.

Stupid because they just overlooked one of their prime resources for bringing in revenue. What they saw as a large figure eating the Bottom Line is actually someone contributing to its growth. Without that person, less growth. They decided against the contributing person in favor of the Yes Man. Cruel, stupid. The Yes Man will contribute nothing and simply agree with his three-piece suited Lord all the way to the unemployment line. Didn't have to be that way. Unnecessarily cruel. Ignorant to the point of ridicule.

I am glad as hell I was in the radio carnival when the merry-go-round was well lubed, playing captivating tunes and spinning like a top. THAT was a few decades of big fun. A drug? Only if you allow yourself to be dependent on it, become attached, love the taste of red herring or integrate that activity into your imagined identity. But, if you can appreciate the Big Motion as it is, you know ALL things must pass, and even the Scrooge machines in charge of this ugly period of horrible cookie-cutter content they call broadcasting is on the way out. With NOTHING of which to be proud.

That broadcast corporations are heartless business entities is nothing new and certainly not the focus of this thread. Business is business and while it used to be operated on the principle that as long as the employee is producing, they're valuable, keep them, now the rules have changed. Not for the best either, especially when we look at the Sacred Bottom Line, which has become inconsistent, fragile every month and, by comparison, smaller. There is desperation in the hall ways. And fear.

Because of the new financial structures, management types have to deal with people over which they have no power, the stockholders. They don't know how to do this so they ask. Higher ups and consultants all spout out the same format: now we must appease stockholders by cutting costs. Why? Because they blew it and got rid of the creative people, the money makers. Now they have no individual means of making money come in.

RKO was no gem either. They were far from a model corporation overall, with it's shady dealing in foreign countries, ties to criminals in the elective government, bribes, slush funds and such dark doings, but they were a a great corporation for their bottom rung players, the radio broadcasters.

When a piece of radio equipment wore out or started acting fidgety at an RKO station it was never fixed, even though we had the world's best techs, but was immediately replaced. They put in a new one of whatever it was - cart machine, EQ rack, studio monitors, whatever. RKO had a traditional understanding and respect for it's own and, in particular, it's program creators. It was business based.

"What's on the air right NOW is the most important thing in the world." That was our prime tenet, our core koan. This mutual regard between management and performers, and willingness to procure for them what they needed to get the job done was a show-biz standard at RKO for radio as well as motion pictures.

As a corporation, RKO got into the same kind of trouble anyone with too much money can, and do today. They weren't just broadcasters, or tire dealers. They were international players. Radio and rubber were just some of the things they did, and with excellence enough to be remembered today. Sadly, RKO cannot boast of these high standards throughout its tale.

In 1965, as RKO General applied for renewal of its license for KHJ-TV in Los Angeles they were challenged with "reciprocal trade practices," the charge that General Tire conditioned its dealings with certain vendors on the basis that they would in turn buy advertising time on RKO General stations. Similar legal obstacles occurred with their operations coast to coast.

In 1975, it was alleged that General Tire bribed foreign officials, maintained a slush fund for U.S. political campaign contributions, and misappropriated revenue from overseas operations...

The FCC stripped RKO of WNAC-TV's license in 1980, finding that RKO "lacked the requisite character" to be the station's licensee...

On April 19, 1982, RKO had lost a long-fought case for good. Cited as most damning was RKO's dishonesty before the Commission.

In August 1987, the FCC found RKO "unfit to be a broadcast licensee due to a long history of deceptive practices." The FCC consequently found that RKO had displayed a "persistent lack of candor" regarding its own and General Tire's misdeeds, thus threatening "the integrity of the Commission's processes." That FCC ruling meant that RKO lost the KHJ-TV and WOR-TV licenses as well.

All of which is to say - here's a corporation, as far back as twenty-five through fifty years ago, that was not a model operation. But they were FAR BETTER BROADCAST BUSINESS MINDS THAN WE HAVE TODAY. RKO, as awkward in high government as a one-legged thief on stilts, had a hard time in the courts, but never in the field. They knew their customers (listeners) well, and gave them what they wanted. The corporation supplied the talent and artillery necessary to win.

They invested in their companies and in those who they populated their radio stations. They made so much money doing radio the right way, that a different temptation, associated with possessing a huge treasure and character of less than equal magnitude, dogged them unmercifully. They ultimately paid the price for their indiscretions, but it turns out to be footnotes next to the legends of wildly inspired, larger-than-life radio entertainment they practiced across the USA for such an extended period of our personal history.

And their stations were honored, extremely successful, even mythical in lore, even when being divested.

Compare to corporations that own huge clusters of radio stations in each town across our land today. Still heartless. But they sound two dimensional, immature and chaotic. And possess far worse business acumen than the Three Stooges.
--0--​
 
DavidKaye said:
He was fired in the same class-less way the people at KGO were fired. He said it took just 7 minutes between getting called into the manager's office and being escorted out of the building. When he checked his station voicemail he learned there were 10 messages but his passcode had been changed so he couldn't access it.

Cumulus may know or not know what they're doing when it comes to running radio stations, but they certainly don't know how to make or keep friends. If there's anything I've learned in the business world is that you NEVER NEVER NEVER burn your bridges with people you've worked with, if for no other reason than that your ascending star will begin falling some day, and you may end up working for the guy you fired.

Ralph's comments: http://blog.sfgate.com/sportsevents...bieris-response-to-being-fired-by-knbr/?tsp=1

Armstrong & Getty reported this nearly word for word the same...albeit graphically in opposition to how Ralph was treated. After being with the station for so many years, it is sad to be let go like this.

Is there any job security in today's workforce? Wasn't there a time when you put in 30 or 40 years, have a party and receive a gold watch.

Instead, you get the door slammed on your a$$ on the way out! :mad:
 
DavidEduardo said:
calguy said:
Most will tell you that deregulation was needed to keep station from failing and going dark. I believe it's a bull&*%$ tactic.

For ever and ever... going back to the 50's... about half of US radio stations failed to show a profit. The data in the 50's through the 70's was particularly credible as it came from the required FCC filings. Later, it was NAB survey data and independent sources, but in the years after Docket 80-90, it did nothing except get worse.

There are a lot of barely sustainable stations today. Radio revenue is off about 30% compared to 2007, and the 1999-2007 period had growth that was slower than inflation. So, in 2012 radio is off, in real dollars, as much as 40% compared with the year 1998 (prior to the dot bomb).

Look at the GM's and upper management. They're all still making above average money, buying big houses and driving luxury cars.

If you are in a difficult business, you need the best management. If you don't pay well as a station, talented folks will go to your competitor. If you don't pay well as an industry, you will loose talented folks to other media or other industries.

They still have the cash to overpay people like Rush and Seacrest to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, but can't pay a board op much beyond minimum wage.

Rush and Seacreast represent investments that pay back with a very, very good return on the investment. They are worth the price, just as box office draws get more money for movies than no-names do. Or guys who bat .400 get a lot more than those who bat .200.

There is an endless supply of board ops. With today's technology, the value of a skilled board op is reduced in most situation, so we have an endless potential supply and little demand. That is a formula for minimum wage.

And if you're part time, they will hold you to 29 hours or less a week so they don't have to pay any benefits.

The law, at present, allows this. Generally, when you have positions such as promo techs working part time, increasing the cost simply means eliminating the position. It's a no win situation for both sides, the part timers and the stations.

Now they want to rid themselves of the very personalities that helped them succeed. Of course many of these people being let go because of high salaries are older as well and if you don't think there is age discrimination going on, you're nuts.

While this specific situation is indeed more complex, the fact remains that longer-term employees in addition to being older also tend to make more. And in many cases, they make more than their position is worth in today's radio. So, if positions are going to be eliminated, the biggest savings come from the biggest earners.

Just read the post from those on this site who constantly put down older talent as over the hill even when they're bringing in high PPM ratings and revenue...

When an older person brings in a good return on the investment, I don't see them being eliminated. When the same income can be obtained without the cost, I see them being eliminated as the PPM certainly does not favor yesterday's personality radio... although in some cases, it is the newer generation of listeners who don't like and even reject disk jockeys and favor mixers and blends on music stations.

It's not their fault when all the small towns are voice tracked and there's no farm system in place anymore....

Small markets are on satellite or voice tracked (in larger "small markets") because of Docket 80-90 and the overpopulation of stations in smaller rated and smaller markets. Too many stations, no increase in local revenue, and you get satellite delivered stations... this goes back to the 70's with tape syndication so is not new at all..

Ahh David, always there with the stats. Oh you are correct, but your missing the point as usual . PEOPLE make it work. Not technology, not the sales manager, nor the GM. Without great product brought forth by talented people, your product is nothing more than a slice of processed cheese and those sales managers would have nothing to sell. Sure, like any business, some owners were better at it than others. So what if they failed, had to sell and moved on? Someone with better business acumen took over and if they were smart, they flourished. Today's radio executives are the same in many ways, however when they don't have the talent to run a business successfully they aren't just killing off one AM or FM, they're killing off 800. And with that 800 a lot more people lose there jobs.

What's so wrong with putting a good product on the air and paying your talent because they are part of your success? Instead of paying a CEO 3 million a year, pay him 800 thousand and spread the wealth. Make that station one that it's workers have pride in and are loyal to. The very eloquent writings or Skyrocker let us in on RKO's history. Most people didn't want to work there for a huge paycheck, although they did pay well because they wanted the best talent. They paid well knowing that it brought them high ratings, higher billing and prestige because it brought them the best talent. Most wanted to work for RKO because they had some of the best programmed stations in existence.

David you can keep hitting me over the head with your stats, that's fine. I'll still be right here fighting for the people. Yes, you aren't wrong, but I don't think that these facts hold up. I've seen the greed and I'm sure you have to. But you've been management a long time and if you were on the talent side today, you might feel differently. Or maybe not. I have no doubt that you are a talented, intelligent man, I just don't agree that all these reasons you've noted mean that radio HAS to be run into the ground. Every day we read about how radio is losing audience, that younger people could care less about it. Perhaps if they heard what radio "could" be or yes, what it was, they might find it more palatable and that might just translate into more listeners. Yes, there's more competition brought about by all the other media and the internet. But how many internet stations can actually compete with a fully staffed over the air radio station? They can't... Sadly that doesn't matter. But back to the original topic. Those running radio today are cruel, selfish greedy people, just like almost every other business. My point it that it doesn't have to be. You don't have to fire people in such a mean way. Handing a guy a severance check isn't being nice, especially when you have them escorted out by a guard with box of their belongings, when only hours earlier they were a trusted employee.
 
Not all small market stations are all tracked. Have had an interest in a small group for 25 years. They all have some tracked day parts, but the younger demo station is live morning, PM drive, and evenings. They bill in 7 figures, and have been profitable. One difference with the big groups...the company is debt-free and has cash in the bank. In today's economy, that's a good place to be.
 
calguy said:
David you can keep hitting me over the head with your stats, that's fine. I'll still be right here fighting for the people.

You use "stats" in a derogatory term and then use the word "facts."

Statistics are measurements of facts. And what we have are several really important facts:

First, there are too many stations, too many bad signals, and a technical regulatory policy set in the 30's for AM and, mostly, in the 40's for FM.

Second, you have new technology that is either easier to use or getting there rapidly that is totally customizable. And, particularly, it is "pull" technology allowing the consumer to get what they want they way they like it while radio is a "push" technology where listeners get an approximation or averaging of what they want at the time the station wants to provide it.

Third, we have a generation or two of people who now get their interaction with others via social networks, instant texting, ubiquitous telephone service and such. They don't want or need what we used to call "talent" telling them the time and the temperature and cracking wise about the song title. They know how to access specific traffic info when they need it, and can get whatever news and information exactly how they want it when they so desire. And they don't believe that old jingle line about "your friend on the radio" coming from a jock because the jock is not their friend and they don't care.

Radio's issue and likely failure is in pretending that they will win by localism (a term that has been redefined via the internet sense of "community") and personality. Most stations can not afford to have local personalities since the standard is so much higher now that people can compare local programs with everything on the web. And most communities don't have enough local content of broad interest to fill a teaspoon in the meal of information that consumers want each day.

Yes, you aren't wrong, but I don't think that these facts hold up. I've seen the greed and I'm sure you have to. But you've been management a long time and if you were on the talent side today, you might feel differently.

I've been in pure programming for the last twenty years... I worked my way from owner to manager to GSM to programmer as I got into situations where I could improve my income while focusing on programming.

And I see no difference between the desire of owners in the 60's to make money and those today. It's just that it is so much harder to make money because there are more stations and fewer dollars.

Every day we read about how radio is losing audience, that younger people could care less about it. Perhaps if they heard what radio "could" be or yes, what it was, they might find it more palatable and that might just translate into more listeners.

The teens and 18-34's don't dislike radio... in fact they use it overwhelmingly. But they use less of it because newer options are just, simply, better in satisfying their entertainment or information needs. But much of what was "the big thing" of radio in the past is simply not interesting, no matter how well it is done.

Yes, there's more competition brought about by all the other media and the internet. But how many internet stations can actually compete with a fully staffed over the air radio station?

The first question is whether much of the audience would want that: a station's music choices and their choice of content.

Once folks like Clear integrate "Premium Choice" with listener selected music genres or custom "stations" a listener will be able to listen to their kind of music with an amount of today's Ryan Seacrest show any time of the day and with any mix of songs. So at that point, a push-based radio station is irrelevant.

They can't...

No, but they can do it even better as the technology improves and as the penetration and versatility of smart devices increases.

My point it that it doesn't have to be. You don't have to fire people in such a mean way. Handing a guy a severance check isn't being nice, especially when you have them escorted out by a guard with box of their belongings, when only hours earlier they were a trusted employee.

Thank the labor laws, insurers and such for much of that. I've been on the receiving end of the process and realize that the possibility of people "going postal" or saying things that will disrupt the workplace or such is real.

I know of cases long in the past where fired program department staffers waved a bulk eraser over entire cart racks or pissed in the production room board. After a while, management, the lawyers and such decided that the current process was the only way to protect the business.
 
TheBigA said:
That hasn't changed either. Corporations were always ruthless, especially with regards to employees. That's why unions were formed. What's changed is that no one is representing employees any more.

Corporations are more ruthless now because they can get by with it. Indeed, during the days of RKO and NBC and ABC Radio, and all the other, what we considered to be "big" operators in those days -- they were all unionized. What's funny is that NBC in SF had union announcers, union board ops, union transmitter engineers, and even at one point union tape operators. It was not unusual for KNBR (and earlier KNBC) to have 3 or 4 union folks on duty to do one DJ show.

And KFRC during its Top 40 days had a minimum of 2 union people on duty, a union announcer and a union board op. Beau Weaver didn't spin records; he opened his mic, talked into it, and pointed to the board op to start the record.

What hurts broadcasting employees even more is the overabundance of potential employees. Supply and demand, folks. When you have an unending supply, and demand is dropping, price goes down. That's where broadcast employees are now.

Oh yes...and it's the same in photography and music. Used to be that stock photos sold for $10-25 for non-exclusive publishing rights. Now with the flood of stock photos a photographer is lucky to get 50 cents a sale after splitting with the stock photo site. And LA has a notorious history of clubs like the Whisky which actually charge musicians to play in their club.

This is what rankles me when someone here (and it's mostly here) brags about being a DJ or calls themselves a DJ as if that profession is ever going to come back. Those folks live in the same fantasy world I did as an 8 year old calling myself "Dave Colpix" and putting a foil star on my bedroom door. The listeners have spoken and they don't want DJs. They want jukeboxes. There is no place in today's world for DJs.
 
Well David, you do like to be the I told you so guy. Few will take you on, because as an executive who obviously saves every bit of info(a fact that I actually admire)you're always ready to tell everyone here how wrong they are and you back up your conclusions with facts and figures. But I do have a life experience here and I can tell you that my feelings about radio are a lot more common than you might believe. I don't doubt what you're saying about how the "suits" see things, I just think that most of them are heartless. You can operate a company in it's best interest, but you don't have to be cruel about it and make no mistake in some clusters there are some real mean people. It's probably my mistake in that my life experience has been on the air. I've never thought like a suit, I've thought like an entertainer. Different goals for sure. I wanted to better myself as a communicator and thereby increase ratings so that time can be sold at a higher rate. In my time in radio I've made a lot of money for the companies I've worked for, and a lot of other have as well. I firmly believe that you can pay people a decent, livable wage and at the same time make a large profit for your company. That is if you aren't taking the whole pie for yourself and I see that as a huge problem in American business today. The guys on top make more money than they'll ever use and they get there on the backs of the ones they pay a pittance to. Unlike the suits, I care about the people, after all, people are what makes it work. Even if you're voice tracking, you have to have people creating those tracks.

You said that I use "stats" in a derogatory term, but when people are being bludgeoned with them they will go on the defensive. Stats are great, but you should know, stats can be read differently, depending on what you want to achieve. I have no problem with stats, we use them in radio every day when we spin the numbers to make a sale.

Guess I should pack it in, because you're right, those of us working in the business are an endangered species. Just remember that you get what you pay for. The people who made good salaries usually get them for a reason. I hear talent in major markets making rookie mistakes all the time because most have no seasoning. They jump to the majors after a year or so board-opping, or go right from school to the bigs, and it sounds like it. But hey, they work cheap and today's management admires that. Funny thing, management never seems to work cheap, I wonder why? I feel that it's because they can get away with it, and they'll show you the stats to back themselves up...
 
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