RandR: KPBS ratings

[zumahans]

As part of a larger article about noncom radio Arbitrons,

http://www.radioandrecords.com/radi...article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003409913

John Schoenberger and Ken Tucker make some really good points, including these:

>"Lincoln Financial Media/San Diego VP/market manager Darrel Goodin, whose cluster includes smooth jazz KIFM, country KSON and alternative KBZT, says he’s well aware of the reach of San Diego State University’s news/talk KPBS. All three of his music stations share listening with it, especially KIFM and KBZT. “It’s displaced AM news talk as the news source for FM music station listeners,” he says of the station.

From a programming standpoint, Goodin thinks that listing noncomms next to commercial stations, at least in San Diego, will force AM news/talk stations to re-evaluate what they’re doing. “Whether or not they’re selling spots, it could really force news/talkers to change,” he says. “They have to compete with them.”
Goodin believes in the KPBS product so much that his staff mentions the station when they are doing their Arbitron book reviews with the buying community.

[EDIT]

KPBS’ four-book average places it eighth among 25- to 54-year-olds, sixth with 35- to 54-year-olds and fourth among 35- to 64-year-olds. In all three demos it ranks ahead of KFMB-AM and KOGO. ..."<

Ahead of KOGO and KFMB.

[EDIT-The citation of Arbitron numbers, in particular the 12+ numbers, is prohibited. The unauthorized use of copyrighted material is a violation of our Terms of Service.]

 

[Lopaka]

Chickens coming home to roost. KOGO and KFMB have worked very hard to establish reputations as right wing propaganda organs so people, at least reasonable people, don't expect facts there.

 

[Bob_Hudson]

Chickens coming home to roost. KOGO and KFMB have worked very hard to establish reputations as right wing propaganda organs so people, at least reasonable people, don't expect facts there.

Philosophically, I agree with Rush but radiowise I listen to PBS and it's not all that hard to hear their bias. As a former journalist I can tell you that there is no such thing as unbiased reporting. Bias plays a part in what stories are covered and how they are covered and clearly PBS has an agenda. We can all report the same set of facts "accurately" yet come up with entirely different spins based on our personal and institutional biases. Rush spins to the right, PBS spins to the left as do most major media in the US. The media really did win the mid-term elections because Rush Limbaugh and Fox News are simply small potatoes compared to CBS, NBC, ABC, PBS, the NYT, the Washingon Post, and most other daily newspapers and wire services. The American public has been blasted with their hate Bush message so much that it is no surprise at all that it has taken root as well as it has. The left still laments that it needs something like Air America top counter Rush, but the truth is there is no shortage whatsoever of media carrying water for the left. That's why no one listens to Al Franken and Randi Rhodes; you don't need shrill, bitter small-time radio hosts teaching you to hate Bush when PBS does it in such a pleasant manner (well, except for Daniel Schorr who always sounds rather bitter - or maybe it's just loose dentures).

 

[OldGringo]

From a programming standpoint, Goodin thinks that listing noncomms next to commercial stations, at least in San Diego, will force AM news/talk stations to re-evaluate what they’re doing. “Whether or not they’re selling spots, it could really force news/talkers to change,” he says. “They have to compete with them.”
Goodin believes in the KPBS product so much that his staff mentions the station when they are doing their Arbitron book reviews with the buying community.

We have had "noncoms next to commercial stations" for a decade in Maximiser, which is all most anyone uses today, anyway.

The real issue is not "suddenly" having these stations show up, since they have been in our rankers for many years. The "new" thing is the fact that AM is ageing and n/t on AM is moving more and more out of 35-54, as this segment has far less use and custom of use for AM.

If you look at KTAR & KTAR-FM in October, it appears that the sum of the two may have beaten KFYI in the discreet month of October, based on the combo (which is not listed on single line reporting, and will not be because part of the listening is to the old format on the FM frequency, and Aribtron demands 100% simulcast for combining. It also appears that in 25-54, KTAR FM beat KTAR AM, too.

 

[Bob_Hudson]

[EDIT]

KPBS’ four-book average places it eighth among 25- to 54-year-olds, sixth with 35- to 54-year-olds and fourth among 35- to 64-year-olds. In all three demos it ranks ahead of KFMB-AM and KOGO. ..."<

Ahead of KOGO and KFMB.

[EDIT-The citation of Arbitron numbers, in particular the 12+ numbers, is prohibited. The unauthorized use of copyrighted material is a violation of our Terms of Service.]

From http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter9/9-a.html#1

"In its most general sense, a fair use is any copying of copyrighted material done for a limited and "transformative" purpose such as to comment upon, criticize or parody a copyrighted work. Such uses can be done without permission from the copyright owner. Another way of putting this is that fair use is a defense against infringement. If your use qualifies under the definition above, and as defined more specifically later in this chapter, then your use would not be considered an illegal infringement."

 

[Lopaka]

I don't see the "Bush hate". If the war is not going well that is a fact and the people deserve to be informed of it. Foley, Abramoff, Ney, the $500 billion giveaway to drug company campaign contributors, Rev. Haggard and his methedrine addiction and gay trysts with male prostitutes, Jeff Guckert the male prostitute who posed as a journalist, were all news stories independent of Mr. Bush, the only connection being that they all involved Republicans. If, as seems to be the case, the President actually lied in order to drag the country into a war, that too is a fact that needs to be aired. "Hate" came into the relentless delving in to President Clinton's private, personal lapse, it came with KBRT the "christian" station saying that Clinton and Janet Reno were responsible for the Oklahoma City bombing--now that was Hate! Mere reporting of facts even if they happen to go against Big Government is not hate.

 

[zumahans]

All due apologies to the moderators for violating the terms of service here. I thought R and R was an Abritron client.

At any extent, their publication of the figures puts them in the public domain, and this fair use applies.

Nevertheless, this is your candy store and clearly you moderators have the right to edit as they and they alone see fit.

Again, a thousand pardons.

 

[OldGringo]

All due apologies to the moderators for violating the terms of service here. I thought R and R was an Abritron client.

News media that have signed an agreement with Aribron get a minimal amount of data that they can publish, but they are not clients. Only parties that pay for it are clients, such as stations and ad agencies. What they get is basically a press release of the 12+ figures, as well as some rankers without share. Any other use of Arbitron data in the press is forbidden by the owner of the data.

No more than the Coke Formula is subject to fair usage is Arbitron data citable under that "rule."

Arbitron will send a nice lawyer letter to anyone who publishes or causes to be published data beyond that which they release under agreement. There is a whole copyright section on their website.
[/quote]

 

[OldGringo]

Here is the Arbitron policy on posting numbers. Note that it only applies to news media, not message boards...

Arbitron Ratings and Guidelines Arbitron posts 12+ Estimates for Monday through Sunday, 6AM to Midnight for each of the quarterly surveys on http://www.arbitron.com/home/ratings.htm.

At Arbitron's discretion, additional estimates may be provided. Reporters who need additional local market radio ratings for a news story should call Jessica Benbow at (410) 312-8363 or e-mail a request to [email protected].

To understand what we provide to news reporters and what constitutes "fair use" of our copyrighted estimates, please read our guidelines below.

Guidelines For Using Arbitron Radio Ratings In News Stories
Arbitron is willing to grant to newspapers and other publications that write about radio a nonexclusive license to publish a limited, newsworthy amount of copyrighted data.

In general, when writing about the standings of the radio stations in a market, only Persons 12+ estimates may be published, regardless of the source of the information.

All other demographic information (Persons 25-54, Men 18-34, etc.) may only be used in a form that does not publish the actual estimate such as ranking or characterizing the data, i.e. Station WAAA is #2 in Men 25-54. All tables of estimates and rankers must be accompanied by the appropriate copyright notice (e.g., Copyright 2001, Arbitron Inc.).

All estimates and rankers without estimates must be properly sourced as to survey period, survey area, demographic, daypart and estimate (e.g., Spring 2001, New York Metro, Persons 12+, Monday-Sunday, 6AM - Midnight , Average Quarter-Hour Share).

Estimates may not be published until the day after Arbitron releases the information to clients, regardless of the source of the information.

Arbitron will permit limited citation of discrete daypart or demographic estimates only in the context of a news story that analyzes the relative position of two or three directly competing stations in a market.

For example:

Allowed: "Happy Herman’s Men 18-34 share took a beating in Toon Town when Merry Mooney signed on for the morning shift at WNXX. Herman, who ruled the roost in Spring with a 6.3 share, saw Mooney chew away a full third of his core demo. The Summer book put Herman at a 4.2 and Mooney at a blistering 5.6 among the morning talk fans."

Not allowed: "The 18-34 race in RadioTown USA is heating up. WAAA took top honors, with a 5.4 share, up half a share from the previous survey. WBBB is a close second, with a 5.2. In the middle of the pack are WCCC, with a 4.3, WDDD, a 4.2, and WEEE, posting a 4.1. WFFF pulled only a 3.5, while WGGG came close with a 3.3 share. There are no cheers for WHHH, with a dismal 1.8, and the Big Band AM WBND posted an unsurprising 0.9 share."

A subscribing station can use our data to promote its performance per its license with Arbitron. Should a station provide your publication with an 18-34 or 25-54 ranker, you may use the information as background for a story about the station. A station cannot, however, give you permission to reprint the estimates as a ranker for all the other stations in its market.

 

[zumahans]

Hah hah hah hah.

The day I take journalism directions from Arbtiron or any other company is the day I listen to Recuerdo for its intellectual stimulation.

I'm sure the people at Radio and Records feel the same way.

Thanks, I'll take what is taught in law school, and laugh at some pushy company trying to tell me how to practice my craft.

 

[SDRadio]

Here is the Arbitron policy on posting numbers. Note that it only applies to news media, not message boards...

(snip)

Allowed: "Happy Herman’s Men 18-34 share took a beating in Toon Town when Merry Mooney signed on for the morning shift at WNXX. Herman, who ruled the roost in Spring with a [EDIT] share, saw Mooney chew away a full third of his core demo. The Summer book put Herman at a [EDIT] and Mooney at a blistering [EDIT] among the morning talk fans."


[EDIT-post truncated because originating material is copyprotected. Unauthorized use of copyrighted content is in violation of Radio-Info's TOS.]

I'm shocked! Happy Herman took a beating? Perhaps they'll dump the format for All Weasel Radio.

 

[OldGringo]

Hah hah hah hah.

The day I take journalism directions from Arbtiron or any other company is the day I listen to Recuerdo for its intellectual stimulation.

I'm sure the people at Radio and Records feel the same way.

Thanks, I'll take what is taught in law school, and laugh at some pushy company trying to tell me how to practice my craft.

Arbitron data is not news, and they will revoke permission and no longer give the data to any print publication or internet news site if they violate it. If a newspaper prints stuff that a station gave them, they will send a notification of infringement and a C&D order for future usage outside of that allowed. The date is intended to aid stations in selling advertising. Arbitron protects those who pay from those who don't using data for free.

 

[zumahans]

Fiddle-dee fig.

I am not concerned the slightest with making or keeping Arbitron happy. I understand why this board has its policy, and accept it.

 

[OldGringo]

Fiddle-dee fig.

I am not concerned the slightest with making or keeping Arbitron happy. I understand why this board has its policy, and accept it.

Translation: "I don't care if the data is copyright. I don't understand how Arbitron works, so I don't respect the data."

 

[SuperRadioFan]

and a Happy Thanksgiving to you, David.
Hey how about responding to my last post about the 870 AM Las Vegas station interfering with KRLA?
BTW I called their CE Manuel Garcia but got the Univision CE's voice mail.

 

[OldGringo]

and a Happy Thanksgiving to you, David.
Hey how about responding to my last post about the 870 AM Las Vegas station interfering with KRLA?
BTW I called their CE Manuel Garcia but got the Univision CE's voice mail.

I am not in engineering. In any case, you are probably hearing the night signal, which I was picking up this evening all along the 10 from Fontana right to Indio. It sends a pretty decent amount of power to the WSW, probably more than KRLA has in its Eastern nulls, which are far more critical as they protect WWL:

Manuel is the CE of the cluster.

 

[zumahans]

Fiddle-dee fig.

I am not concerned the slightest with making or keeping Arbitron happy. I understand why this board has its policy, and accept it.

Translation: "I don't care if the data is copyright. I don't understand how Arbitron works, so I don't respect the data."

No, David, it's Arbitron's self-serving interpretation that I don't respect. And your slavish devotion to "it is from Arbitron so it cannto be questioned" is just so laughable.

Arbitron's erroneous interpretation of copyright law is of absolute no legal value, except on suckers who have agreed to that malarkey in an ill-advised contractual agreement. No reputable news agency would sign such an agreement, as they do not need to rely on a contractual relationship with the company to get the data.

Is Arbitron suing R and R over the KPBS ratings?

Didn't think so.

Old man, you know less about copyright law than I know about the music list on Recrudo.

 

[OldGringo]

No, David, it's Arbitron's self-serving interpretation that I don't respect. And your slavish devotion to "it is from Arbitron so it cannto be questioned" is just so laughable.

Arbitron's erroneous interpretation of copyright law is of absolute no legal value, except on suckers who have agreed to that malarkey in an ill-advised contractual agreement. No reputable news agency would sign such an agreement, as they do not need to rely on a contractual relationship with the company to get the data.

Is Arbitron suing R and R over the KPBS ratings?

Didn't think so.

Old man, you know less about copyright law than I know about the music list on Recrudo.

Arbitron constantly sends warnings to the press. The only data released to the press is 12+ shares and rankers, without shares, in a few other tables. Any publication that goes beyond that either gets a letter or has gotten prior permission to feature some specific numbers for a news story (which they routinely give for things like the non-com story or morning show battles). Evedrything else is forbidden fruit. Fair usage does not apply, since we are talking about copyright data, not a news story, a book or similar.

The data is NOT news. It is proprietary information paid for by some stations who would not welcome freeloading competitors getting data for nothing. The reason why some markets are embargoed is that prohibited data is being released, so Arbitron in those cases gives nothing to the press.

All Arbitron contracts specify how data can be used, and prohibits giving it to the press. The reason for this is that the subscribers want to protect their investment, not have non-subscriber stations get data for free. We all WANT this restriction, and the Advisory Council has made it clear over the years that we want Arbitron to carefully control the data that gets out. Most of us woul prefer that none of it gets released.

Arbitron is NOT 100% perfect but it is so much better than either not having ratings or having some of the companies that have done them in the past. In any case, with larger broadcasters spending tens of millions on the data, nobody wants it given away.

 

[zumahans]

Big deal. Arbitron can huff and puff all it wants to.

Copyright actions are impossible to win. If the "privileged" matter is printed in a transformative manner, or in a news setting, it is protected as fair use.

Period.

You don't see R and R getting sued, here, do you?

 

[OldGringo]

Big deal. Arbitron can huff and puff all it wants to.

Copyright actions are impossible to win. If the "privileged" matter is printed in a transformative manner, or in a news setting, it is protected as fair use.

Period.

You don't see R and R getting sued, here, do you?

Arbitron has won a number of suits, probably undertaken to set precedent. Generally, stations using the data without being subscribed avoid a lawsuit by subscribing and paying a penalty. Print media is given a reprimand, if the infraction is minor, or sent a C&D if Arbitron feels its clients are being damaged.

Since having non-subscribers using data subscribing stations have paid for causes damage to the subscribed station and to Arbitron, the early cases were settled quite easily.

R&R uses the data within the scope of the Arbitron restrictions. They print 12+ rankers for non-embargoed markets, and do rankers without numbers for dayparts or demos other than 12+. And, for special cases, they get permission from Arbitron to do some kind of in depth article. I have never seen anything in R&R that violates Arbitron policy (and if they did violate the policy, R&R would not get any further data from Arbitron.)

And copyright claims are relatively simple to win if the data (or mark in the case of service or trade marks) is registered and the company owning the material or marks has protected same consistently and diligently. I've been part of several such issues, and in each case the rights holder has prevailed.