Moving on to another location, I have the benefit of someone offering me the balcony of a condo on the 21th floor. I must admit that putting up on a house was a concept i got use to. However this is different. The roof of the balcony is about 8 feet high. How should I handle the rangemaster antenna?? Should I bend it over? Perhaps replace it with a loaded cb antenna of lesser height etc. Maybe I should lay it across the porch floor....or perhaps it is better to forget this location. Input is welcome
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Rangemaster on 21th floor balcony
- Thread starter simcha
- Start date
P
pronut
Guest
Wow... 21st floor huh? Well, you should post some pictures of the location and show the mounting areas, floor, and condo entrance. BUT, judging from your duscription how about this idea.
If you do this, you should have the number 1 Part 15 in history!, unless someone has the 22nd floor somewhere LOL..
remember to adjust the 102 inch steel wip antenna away from the roof. How much? depends on how far you mount the Rangemaster away from the balcony railing (or contrete railing) The idea is to mount the rangemaster straight away from the railing as far as possible without hampering the safety of you, or the rangemaster. remember grounding is important too. Not only for electrical protection, but also for the signal. Poor grounding, is equal in poor signal output. I wouldent worry about the antenna angled, That should not affect the signal. depending on how far you have it away from the roof or any other metal object near by.
21 floor huh?.... Whew... Your signal should rock! (at least on that side of the building)
> Moving on to another location, I have the benefit of someone
> offering me the balcony of a condo on the 21th floor. I
> must admit that putting up on a house was a concept i got
> use to. However this is different. The roof of the balcony
> is about 8 feet high. How should I handle the rangemaster
> antenna?? Should I bend it over? Perhaps replace it with a
> loaded cb antenna of lesser height etc. Maybe I should lay
> it across the porch floor....or perhaps it is better to
> forget this location. Input is welcome
>
If you do this, you should have the number 1 Part 15 in history!, unless someone has the 22nd floor somewhere LOL..
remember to adjust the 102 inch steel wip antenna away from the roof. How much? depends on how far you mount the Rangemaster away from the balcony railing (or contrete railing) The idea is to mount the rangemaster straight away from the railing as far as possible without hampering the safety of you, or the rangemaster. remember grounding is important too. Not only for electrical protection, but also for the signal. Poor grounding, is equal in poor signal output. I wouldent worry about the antenna angled, That should not affect the signal. depending on how far you have it away from the roof or any other metal object near by.
21 floor huh?.... Whew... Your signal should rock! (at least on that side of the building)
> Moving on to another location, I have the benefit of someone
> offering me the balcony of a condo on the 21th floor. I
> must admit that putting up on a house was a concept i got
> use to. However this is different. The roof of the balcony
> is about 8 feet high. How should I handle the rangemaster
> antenna?? Should I bend it over? Perhaps replace it with a
> loaded cb antenna of lesser height etc. Maybe I should lay
> it across the porch floor....or perhaps it is better to
> forget this location. Input is welcome
>
> Moving on to another location, I have the benefit of someone
> offering me the balcony of a condo on the 21th floor. I
> must admit that putting up on a house was a concept i got
> use to. However this is different. The roof of the balcony
> is about 8 feet high. How should I handle the rangemaster
> antenna?? Should I bend it over? Perhaps replace it with a
> loaded cb antenna of lesser height etc. Maybe I should lay
> it across the porch floor....or perhaps it is better to
> forget this location. Input is welcome
>
Simcha,
I estimate that the only people listening to your broadcast will be from ground floor (maybe) and any floors above the transmitter and a radius of 2-3 blocks if that, without a good radial system or some type of elevated ground plane and I don't see that happening with what you describe, of course if the antenna is laid on the porch floor, it's less effective, if it's mounted horizontal ie, antenna whip pointing away from the porch the signal will not be effective but for very short range... I'm sure Rfry will concurr with this simple analysis... you need some type of counterpoise, otherwise this is no different than the 2 blocks you claim to have with Carl's antenna...
Radiopilot
> offering me the balcony of a condo on the 21th floor. I
> must admit that putting up on a house was a concept i got
> use to. However this is different. The roof of the balcony
> is about 8 feet high. How should I handle the rangemaster
> antenna?? Should I bend it over? Perhaps replace it with a
> loaded cb antenna of lesser height etc. Maybe I should lay
> it across the porch floor....or perhaps it is better to
> forget this location. Input is welcome
>
Simcha,
I estimate that the only people listening to your broadcast will be from ground floor (maybe) and any floors above the transmitter and a radius of 2-3 blocks if that, without a good radial system or some type of elevated ground plane and I don't see that happening with what you describe, of course if the antenna is laid on the porch floor, it's less effective, if it's mounted horizontal ie, antenna whip pointing away from the porch the signal will not be effective but for very short range... I'm sure Rfry will concurr with this simple analysis... you need some type of counterpoise, otherwise this is no different than the 2 blocks you claim to have with Carl's antenna...
Radiopilot
I know the grounds is part of the problem
Thanks for the nice diagram pronut. In that diagram i would have to move the range master closer to the condo door. These condo people have money and spare time and the will go bonkers. The thing I do understand is the grounding problem. Height is nice but the ground is a differnt story. The third prong of an outlet wont do it. Pipes maybe. Pronut if you like height I should take you to the office I still can use. The 79th floor of the empire state building. My desk is against a window. Sometimes I was crazy enough to open the window while standing on my desk to get a breeze. Some breeze papers would be everywhere. My kids were joking with me the other day about putting in antenna in their. But grounding would be a problem as well as every tv station in the area has an antenna 100 feet above my head. Oh the FCC would be on my tail for disrupting a zillion tv and radio stations, if the signal could even cut thru everything. One time I was on the phone with lawyers. One uptown and the other downtown. They asked me what the noise was. I told them you are not going to believe this but there is a guy right outside my window hanging out the door of a helicopter with a tv camera in his lap. He must been filming for a tv show opening etc. The funny part is that the downtown lawyer looked out his window and says yeah I see him is that where your window is....then the uptown lawyer said hey your facing the hudson in the corner I see the helicopter too. But I never liked to be there I hate lighting and up there you see plenty of it. So much for a tangent. Meanwhile back to the install. I am concerned about the grounding problem and not sure if is something that can be taken care of easily. Now I assume the building I have in Miami Beach that is offering me the fifth floor on the roof should be easier, I would think..
Thanks for the nice diagram pronut. In that diagram i would have to move the range master closer to the condo door. These condo people have money and spare time and the will go bonkers. The thing I do understand is the grounding problem. Height is nice but the ground is a differnt story. The third prong of an outlet wont do it. Pipes maybe. Pronut if you like height I should take you to the office I still can use. The 79th floor of the empire state building. My desk is against a window. Sometimes I was crazy enough to open the window while standing on my desk to get a breeze. Some breeze papers would be everywhere. My kids were joking with me the other day about putting in antenna in their. But grounding would be a problem as well as every tv station in the area has an antenna 100 feet above my head. Oh the FCC would be on my tail for disrupting a zillion tv and radio stations, if the signal could even cut thru everything. One time I was on the phone with lawyers. One uptown and the other downtown. They asked me what the noise was. I told them you are not going to believe this but there is a guy right outside my window hanging out the door of a helicopter with a tv camera in his lap. He must been filming for a tv show opening etc. The funny part is that the downtown lawyer looked out his window and says yeah I see him is that where your window is....then the uptown lawyer said hey your facing the hudson in the corner I see the helicopter too. But I never liked to be there I hate lighting and up there you see plenty of it. So much for a tangent. Meanwhile back to the install. I am concerned about the grounding problem and not sure if is something that can be taken care of easily. Now I assume the building I have in Miami Beach that is offering me the fifth floor on the roof should be easier, I would think..
J
JasonW
Guest
Re: I know the grounds is part of the problem
If the condo's occupant will permit it, why not run hookup wire around the baseboards and use it as a counterpoise? Tucked under the edge of the carpet, it would be completely invisible. -- JasonW
> Thanks for the nice diagram pronut. In that diagram i would
> have to move the range master closer to the condo door.
> These condo people have money and spare time and the will go
> bonkers. The thing I do understand is the grounding problem.
> Height is nice but the ground is a differnt story. The third
> prong of an outlet wont do it. Pipes maybe. Pronut if you
> like height I should take you to the office I still can use.
> The 79th floor of the empire state building. My desk is
> against a window. Sometimes I was crazy enough to open the
> window while standing on my desk to get a breeze. Some
> breeze papers would be everywhere. My kids were joking with
> me the other day about putting in antenna in their. But
> grounding would be a problem as well as every tv station in
> the area has an antenna 100 feet above my head. Oh the FCC
> would be on my tail for disrupting a zillion tv and radio
> stations, if the signal could even cut thru everything. One
> time I was on the phone with lawyers. One uptown and the
> other downtown. They asked me what the noise was. I told
> them you are not going to believe this but there is a guy
> right outside my window hanging out the door of a helicopter
> with a tv camera in his lap. He must been filming for a tv
> show opening etc. The funny part is that the downtown lawyer
> looked out his window and says yeah I see him is that where
> your window is....then the uptown lawyer said hey your
> facing the hudson in the corner I see the helicopter too.
> But I never liked to be there I hate lighting and up there
> you see plenty of it. So much for a tangent. Meanwhile back
> to the install. I am concerned about the grounding problem
> and not sure if is something that can be taken care of
> easily. Now I assume the building I have in Miami Beach that
> is offering me the fifth floor on the roof should be easier,
> I would think..
>
If the condo's occupant will permit it, why not run hookup wire around the baseboards and use it as a counterpoise? Tucked under the edge of the carpet, it would be completely invisible. -- JasonW
> Thanks for the nice diagram pronut. In that diagram i would
> have to move the range master closer to the condo door.
> These condo people have money and spare time and the will go
> bonkers. The thing I do understand is the grounding problem.
> Height is nice but the ground is a differnt story. The third
> prong of an outlet wont do it. Pipes maybe. Pronut if you
> like height I should take you to the office I still can use.
> The 79th floor of the empire state building. My desk is
> against a window. Sometimes I was crazy enough to open the
> window while standing on my desk to get a breeze. Some
> breeze papers would be everywhere. My kids were joking with
> me the other day about putting in antenna in their. But
> grounding would be a problem as well as every tv station in
> the area has an antenna 100 feet above my head. Oh the FCC
> would be on my tail for disrupting a zillion tv and radio
> stations, if the signal could even cut thru everything. One
> time I was on the phone with lawyers. One uptown and the
> other downtown. They asked me what the noise was. I told
> them you are not going to believe this but there is a guy
> right outside my window hanging out the door of a helicopter
> with a tv camera in his lap. He must been filming for a tv
> show opening etc. The funny part is that the downtown lawyer
> looked out his window and says yeah I see him is that where
> your window is....then the uptown lawyer said hey your
> facing the hudson in the corner I see the helicopter too.
> But I never liked to be there I hate lighting and up there
> you see plenty of it. So much for a tangent. Meanwhile back
> to the install. I am concerned about the grounding problem
> and not sure if is something that can be taken care of
> easily. Now I assume the building I have in Miami Beach that
> is offering me the fifth floor on the roof should be easier,
> I would think..
>
> Hey Simcha,
>
> I read that you are in the NY area (Empire State Building).
> I am as well and may need your assistance with my Part 15
> project. Please contact me to let me know if this would be
> do-able or not. My email addy is in my profile, thanks!
>
Although I still have use of the office I am here in Florida and will only travel to NY if a big investigation comes my way. I still have a pi agencey there. But there are plenty of people up there, just contact the local ham radio clubs.
>
> I read that you are in the NY area (Empire State Building).
> I am as well and may need your assistance with my Part 15
> project. Please contact me to let me know if this would be
> do-able or not. My email addy is in my profile, thanks!
>
Although I still have use of the office I am here in Florida and will only travel to NY if a big investigation comes my way. I still have a pi agencey there. But there are plenty of people up there, just contact the local ham radio clubs.
Re: I know the grounds is part of the problem
> If the condo's occupant will permit it, why not run hookup
> wire around the baseboards and use it as a counterpoise?
> Tucked under the edge of the carpet, it would be completely
> invisible. -- JasonW
He may allow it but I dont think his wife would. I know they just redid their floors. They have wooden floors up there. I also had to have everything outside. He wants no wires inside. I was going to put in wireless internet and stream. I did speak to Keith about this quite awhile ago. He did say that the ground is the problem and it may not be so good as I thought it would be. I did joke with him and said if I drop the transmitter from up there it will become "deranged master"...well I think i may have to focus on another building on miami beach that has five floors. I have someone else who has a building which has over 6 floors who told me I can do it if I use one of his contractors. He is nervous about his new roof and doesnt want problems. In that location I would probably use an Isdn hookup. It is expensive but I have one that I now use with a radio station on the weekend and it is very reliable.
> If the condo's occupant will permit it, why not run hookup
> wire around the baseboards and use it as a counterpoise?
> Tucked under the edge of the carpet, it would be completely
> invisible. -- JasonW
He may allow it but I dont think his wife would. I know they just redid their floors. They have wooden floors up there. I also had to have everything outside. He wants no wires inside. I was going to put in wireless internet and stream. I did speak to Keith about this quite awhile ago. He did say that the ground is the problem and it may not be so good as I thought it would be. I did joke with him and said if I drop the transmitter from up there it will become "deranged master"...well I think i may have to focus on another building on miami beach that has five floors. I have someone else who has a building which has over 6 floors who told me I can do it if I use one of his contractors. He is nervous about his new roof and doesnt want problems. In that location I would probably use an Isdn hookup. It is expensive but I have one that I now use with a radio station on the weekend and it is very reliable.
J
JasonW
Guest
Re: I know the grounds is part of the problem
Well...in a 21st story installation, you could drop a 1/4 wavelength counterpoise wire down the side of the building (hookup wire or enameled magnet wire would do) and secure it with a weed trimmer monofilament stay. -- JasonW
> > If the condo's occupant will permit it, why not run hookup
>
> > wire around the baseboards and use it as a counterpoise?
> > Tucked under the edge of the carpet, it would be
> completely
> > invisible. -- JasonW
>
> He may allow it but I dont think his wife would. I know they
> just redid their floors. They have wooden floors up there. I
> also had to have everything outside. He wants no wires
> inside. I was going to put in wireless internet and stream.
> I did speak to Keith about this quite awhile ago. He did say
> that the ground is the problem and it may not be so good as
> I thought it would be. I did joke with him and said if I
> drop the transmitter from up there it will become "deranged
> master"...well I think i may have to focus on another
> building on miami beach that has five floors. I have someone
> else who has a building which has over 6 floors who told me
> I can do it if I use one of his contractors. He is nervous
> about his new roof and doesnt want problems. In that
> location I would probably use an Isdn hookup. It is
> expensive but I have one that I now use with a radio station
> on the weekend and it is very reliable.
>
Well...in a 21st story installation, you could drop a 1/4 wavelength counterpoise wire down the side of the building (hookup wire or enameled magnet wire would do) and secure it with a weed trimmer monofilament stay. -- JasonW
> > If the condo's occupant will permit it, why not run hookup
>
> > wire around the baseboards and use it as a counterpoise?
> > Tucked under the edge of the carpet, it would be
> completely
> > invisible. -- JasonW
>
> He may allow it but I dont think his wife would. I know they
> just redid their floors. They have wooden floors up there. I
> also had to have everything outside. He wants no wires
> inside. I was going to put in wireless internet and stream.
> I did speak to Keith about this quite awhile ago. He did say
> that the ground is the problem and it may not be so good as
> I thought it would be. I did joke with him and said if I
> drop the transmitter from up there it will become "deranged
> master"...well I think i may have to focus on another
> building on miami beach that has five floors. I have someone
> else who has a building which has over 6 floors who told me
> I can do it if I use one of his contractors. He is nervous
> about his new roof and doesnt want problems. In that
> location I would probably use an Isdn hookup. It is
> expensive but I have one that I now use with a radio station
> on the weekend and it is very reliable.
>
Re: I know the grounds is part of the problem
> Well...in a 21st story installation, you could drop a 1/4
> wavelength counterpoise wire down the side of the building
> (hookup wire or enameled magnet wire would do) and secure it
> with a weed trimmer monofilament stay. -- JasonW
_________
A 1/4-wave vertical wire connected to the chassis of a Part 15 AM tx whose r-f output is connected to a 3-meter, loaded vertical wire constitutes an off-center fed dipole whose total length is FAR beyond what is permitted as an antenna for Part 15 AM.
Calling the 1/4-wave part a "counterpoise" doesn't make it one, as far as its radiating performance in the antenna system. A true counterpoise will contribute no far-field radiation to that of the driven element, itself. But that will not be the case in the setup described above. The 1/4-wave part will radiate many times more field than the 3-meter part above it.
//
> Well...in a 21st story installation, you could drop a 1/4
> wavelength counterpoise wire down the side of the building
> (hookup wire or enameled magnet wire would do) and secure it
> with a weed trimmer monofilament stay. -- JasonW
_________
A 1/4-wave vertical wire connected to the chassis of a Part 15 AM tx whose r-f output is connected to a 3-meter, loaded vertical wire constitutes an off-center fed dipole whose total length is FAR beyond what is permitted as an antenna for Part 15 AM.
Calling the 1/4-wave part a "counterpoise" doesn't make it one, as far as its radiating performance in the antenna system. A true counterpoise will contribute no far-field radiation to that of the driven element, itself. But that will not be the case in the setup described above. The 1/4-wave part will radiate many times more field than the 3-meter part above it.
//
J
JasonW
Guest
Re: I know the grounds is part of the problem
I said *could*, not *should*.
-- JasonW
> > Well...in a 21st story installation, you could drop a 1/4
> > wavelength counterpoise wire down the side of the building
>
> > (hookup wire or enameled magnet wire would do) and secure
> it
> > with a weed trimmer monofilament stay. -- JasonW
> _________
>
> A 1/4-wave vertical wire connected to the chassis of a Part
> 15 AM tx whose r-f output is connected to a 3-meter, loaded
> vertical wire constitutes an off-center fed dipole whose
> total length is FAR beyond what is permitted as an antenna
> for Part 15 AM.
>
> Calling the 1/4-wave part a "counterpoise" doesn't make it
> one, as far as its radiating performance in the antenna
> system. A true counterpoise will contribute no far-field
> radiation to that of the driven element, itself. But that
> will not be the case in the setup described above. The
> 1/4-wave part will radiate many times more field than the
> 3-meter part above it.
> //
>
I said *could*, not *should*.
-- JasonW> > Well...in a 21st story installation, you could drop a 1/4
> > wavelength counterpoise wire down the side of the building
>
> > (hookup wire or enameled magnet wire would do) and secure
> it
> > with a weed trimmer monofilament stay. -- JasonW
> _________
>
> A 1/4-wave vertical wire connected to the chassis of a Part
> 15 AM tx whose r-f output is connected to a 3-meter, loaded
> vertical wire constitutes an off-center fed dipole whose
> total length is FAR beyond what is permitted as an antenna
> for Part 15 AM.
>
> Calling the 1/4-wave part a "counterpoise" doesn't make it
> one, as far as its radiating performance in the antenna
> system. A true counterpoise will contribute no far-field
> radiation to that of the driven element, itself. But that
> will not be the case in the setup described above. The
> 1/4-wave part will radiate many times more field than the
> 3-meter part above it.
> //
>
C
carlvanorden
Guest
Re: I know the grounds is part of the problem
> Well...in a 21st story installation, you could drop a 1/4> wavelength counterpoise wire down the side of the building> (hookup wire or enameled magnet wire would do) and secure it> with a weed trimmer monofilament stay. -- JasonW> > > > If the condo's occupant will permit it, why not run> hookup> > > > > wire around the baseboards and use it as a counterpoise?> > > > Tucked under the edge of the carpet, it would be> > completely> > > invisible. -- JasonW> > > > He may allow it but I dont think his wife would. I know> they> > just redid their floors. They have wooden floors up there.> I> > also had to have everything outside. He wants no wires> > inside. I was going to put in wireless internet and> stream.> > I did speak to Keith about this quite awhile ago. He did> say> > that the ground is the problem and it may not be so good> as> > I thought it would be. I did joke with him and said if I> > drop the transmitter from up there it will become> "deranged> > master"...well I think i may have to focus on another> > building on miami beach that has five floors. I have> someone> > else who has a building which has over 6 floors who told> me> > I can do it if I use one of his contractors. He is nervous> > > about his new roof and doesnt want problems. In that> > location I would probably use an Isdn hookup. It is> > expensive but I have one that I now use with a radio> station> > on the weekend and it is very reliable.> >> Reinventing the wheel again, therefore nothing works. I kind of suspected this was the problem from the start months ago. Radio is radio; do it the way it was designed to work and it will work. This is more experimentation. No ground, no signal; this is AM radio, not FM.<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected], [email protected],[email protected]</P>
> Well...in a 21st story installation, you could drop a 1/4> wavelength counterpoise wire down the side of the building> (hookup wire or enameled magnet wire would do) and secure it> with a weed trimmer monofilament stay. -- JasonW> > > > If the condo's occupant will permit it, why not run> hookup> > > > > wire around the baseboards and use it as a counterpoise?> > > > Tucked under the edge of the carpet, it would be> > completely> > > invisible. -- JasonW> > > > He may allow it but I dont think his wife would. I know> they> > just redid their floors. They have wooden floors up there.> I> > also had to have everything outside. He wants no wires> > inside. I was going to put in wireless internet and> stream.> > I did speak to Keith about this quite awhile ago. He did> say> > that the ground is the problem and it may not be so good> as> > I thought it would be. I did joke with him and said if I> > drop the transmitter from up there it will become> "deranged> > master"...well I think i may have to focus on another> > building on miami beach that has five floors. I have> someone> > else who has a building which has over 6 floors who told> me> > I can do it if I use one of his contractors. He is nervous> > > about his new roof and doesnt want problems. In that> > location I would probably use an Isdn hookup. It is> > expensive but I have one that I now use with a radio> station> > on the weekend and it is very reliable.> >> Reinventing the wheel again, therefore nothing works. I kind of suspected this was the problem from the start months ago. Radio is radio; do it the way it was designed to work and it will work. This is more experimentation. No ground, no signal; this is AM radio, not FM.<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected], [email protected],[email protected]</P>
> > Hey Simcha,
> >
> > I read that you are in the NY area (Empire State
> Building).
> > I am as well and may need your assistance with my Part 15
> > project. Please contact me to let me know if this would be
>
> > do-able or not. My email addy is in my profile, thanks!
> >
> Although I still have use of the office I am here in Florida
> and will only travel to NY if a big investigation comes my
> way. I still have a pi agencey there. But there are plenty
> of people up there, just contact the local ham radio clubs.
>
Ok, thanks.
> >
> > I read that you are in the NY area (Empire State
> Building).
> > I am as well and may need your assistance with my Part 15
> > project. Please contact me to let me know if this would be
>
> > do-able or not. My email addy is in my profile, thanks!
> >
> Although I still have use of the office I am here in Florida
> and will only travel to NY if a big investigation comes my
> way. I still have a pi agencey there. But there are plenty
> of people up there, just contact the local ham radio clubs.
>
Ok, thanks.
Re: I know the grounds is part of the problem
> I said *could*, not *should*. -- JasonW
>
> > > Well...in a 21st story installation, you could drop a
> 1/4
> > > wavelength counterpoise wire down the side of the
> building
> >
> > > (hookup wire or enameled magnet wire would do) and
> secure
> > it
> > > with a weed trimmer monofilament stay. -- JasonW
> > _________
> >
> > A 1/4-wave vertical wire connected to the chassis of a
> Part
> > 15 AM tx whose r-f output is connected to a 3-meter,
> loaded
> > vertical wire constitutes an off-center fed dipole whose
> > total length is FAR beyond what is permitted as an antenna
>
> >
> >
> > Calling the 1/4-wave part a "counterpoise" doesn't make it
>
> > one, as far as its radiating performance in the antenna
> > system. A true counterpoise will contribute no far-field
> > radiation to that of the driven element, itself. But that
>
> > will not be the case in the setup described above. The
> > 1/4-wave part will radiate many times more field than the
> > 3-meter part above it.
> > //
> >
> A 21 story building, almost by necessity, has a metal I bar frame. Use that for the ground/counterpoise. That is not illegal as it is an unintentional radiator. (Pre-existing and not put up for the pourpose of radiating).
The top expert engineer in part 15 broadcast engineering is without a doubt Dave McCrork. His station legally covers over 6 miles!
His contact information is on his webpage:
www.wnar-am.com
Rich Franklin
> I said *could*, not *should*.
-- JasonW>
> > > Well...in a 21st story installation, you could drop a
> 1/4
> > > wavelength counterpoise wire down the side of the
> building
> >
> > > (hookup wire or enameled magnet wire would do) and
> secure
> > it
> > > with a weed trimmer monofilament stay. -- JasonW
> > _________
> >
> > A 1/4-wave vertical wire connected to the chassis of a
> Part
> > 15 AM tx whose r-f output is connected to a 3-meter,
> loaded
> > vertical wire constitutes an off-center fed dipole whose
> > total length is FAR beyond what is permitted as an antenna
>
> >
> >
> > Calling the 1/4-wave part a "counterpoise" doesn't make it
>
> > one, as far as its radiating performance in the antenna
> > system. A true counterpoise will contribute no far-field
> > radiation to that of the driven element, itself. But that
>
> > will not be the case in the setup described above. The
> > 1/4-wave part will radiate many times more field than the
> > 3-meter part above it.
> > //
> >
> A 21 story building, almost by necessity, has a metal I bar frame. Use that for the ground/counterpoise. That is not illegal as it is an unintentional radiator. (Pre-existing and not put up for the pourpose of radiating).
The top expert engineer in part 15 broadcast engineering is without a doubt Dave McCrork. His station legally covers over 6 miles!
His contact information is on his webpage:
www.wnar-am.com
Rich Franklin
Re: Rangemaster on 21th floor balcony-Solution
> Moving on to another location, I have the benefit of someone
> offering me the balcony of a condo on the 21th floor. I
> must admit that putting up on a house was a concept i got
> use to. However this is different. The roof of the balcony
> is about 8 feet high. How should I handle the rangemaster
> antenna?? Should I bend it over? Perhaps replace it with a
> loaded cb antenna of lesser height etc. Maybe I should lay
> it across the porch floor....or perhaps it is better to
> forget this location. Input is welcome
>
> A 21 story building, almost by necessity, has a metal I bar frame. Use that for the ground/counterpoise. That is not illegal as it is an unintentional radiator. (Pre-existing and not put up for the pourpose of radiating).
The top expert engineer in part 15 broadcast engineering is without a doubt Dave McCrork. His station legally covers over 6 miles!
His contact information is on his webpage:
www.wnar-am.com
Rich Franklin
> Moving on to another location, I have the benefit of someone
> offering me the balcony of a condo on the 21th floor. I
> must admit that putting up on a house was a concept i got
> use to. However this is different. The roof of the balcony
> is about 8 feet high. How should I handle the rangemaster
> antenna?? Should I bend it over? Perhaps replace it with a
> loaded cb antenna of lesser height etc. Maybe I should lay
> it across the porch floor....or perhaps it is better to
> forget this location. Input is welcome
>
> A 21 story building, almost by necessity, has a metal I bar frame. Use that for the ground/counterpoise. That is not illegal as it is an unintentional radiator. (Pre-existing and not put up for the pourpose of radiating).
The top expert engineer in part 15 broadcast engineering is without a doubt Dave McCrork. His station legally covers over 6 miles!
His contact information is on his webpage:
www.wnar-am.com
Rich Franklin
Re: I know the grounds is part of the problem
> > I said *could*, not *should*. -- JasonW
> >
> > > > Well...in a 21st story installation, you could drop a
> > 1/4
> > > > wavelength counterpoise wire down the side of the
> > building
> > >
> > > > (hookup wire or enameled magnet wire would do) and
> > secure
> > > it
> > > > with a weed trimmer monofilament stay. -- JasonW
> > > _________
> > >
> > > A 1/4-wave vertical wire connected to the chassis of a
> > Part
> > > 15 AM tx whose r-f output is connected to a 3-meter,
> > loaded
> > > vertical wire constitutes an off-center fed dipole whose
>
> > > total length is FAR beyond what is permitted as an
> antenna
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Calling the 1/4-wave part a "counterpoise" doesn't make
> it
> >
> > > one, as far as its radiating performance in the antenna
> > > system. A true counterpoise will contribute no
> far-field
> > > radiation to that of the driven element, itself. But
> that
> >
> > > will not be the case in the setup described above. The
> > > 1/4-wave part will radiate many times more field than
> the
> > > 3-meter part above it.
> > > //
> > >
> > A 21 story building, almost by necessity, has a metal I
> bar frame. Use that for the ground/counterpoise. That is not
> illegal as it is an unintentional radiator. (Pre-existing
> and not put up for the pourpose of radiating).
> The top expert engineer in part 15 broadcast engineering is
> without a doubt Dave McCrork. His station legally covers
> over 6 miles!
> His contact information is on his webpage:
> www.wnar-am.com
> Rich Franklin
>
"The three WNAR transmitters are in compliance with 47 CFR 15.219."
Dave McCrock is using three transmitters (Rangemasters?) to 'get' the 6 miles of coverage.... I believe even the SStran will do the same if it was sync'd as well.
It's good to see his station doing well and hope we can all be as successful, I will say that getting 3-5 miles on 1 transmitter is the goal for everyone here, if that is the coverage one wants.
Radiopilot
> > I said *could*, not *should*.
-- JasonW> >
> > > > Well...in a 21st story installation, you could drop a
> > 1/4
> > > > wavelength counterpoise wire down the side of the
> > building
> > >
> > > > (hookup wire or enameled magnet wire would do) and
> > secure
> > > it
> > > > with a weed trimmer monofilament stay. -- JasonW
> > > _________
> > >
> > > A 1/4-wave vertical wire connected to the chassis of a
> > Part
> > > 15 AM tx whose r-f output is connected to a 3-meter,
> > loaded
> > > vertical wire constitutes an off-center fed dipole whose
>
> > > total length is FAR beyond what is permitted as an
> antenna
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Calling the 1/4-wave part a "counterpoise" doesn't make
> it
> >
> > > one, as far as its radiating performance in the antenna
> > > system. A true counterpoise will contribute no
> far-field
> > > radiation to that of the driven element, itself. But
> that
> >
> > > will not be the case in the setup described above. The
> > > 1/4-wave part will radiate many times more field than
> the
> > > 3-meter part above it.
> > > //
> > >
> > A 21 story building, almost by necessity, has a metal I
> bar frame. Use that for the ground/counterpoise. That is not
> illegal as it is an unintentional radiator. (Pre-existing
> and not put up for the pourpose of radiating).
> The top expert engineer in part 15 broadcast engineering is
> without a doubt Dave McCrork. His station legally covers
> over 6 miles!
> His contact information is on his webpage:
> www.wnar-am.com
> Rich Franklin
>
"The three WNAR transmitters are in compliance with 47 CFR 15.219."
Dave McCrock is using three transmitters (Rangemasters?) to 'get' the 6 miles of coverage.... I believe even the SStran will do the same if it was sync'd as well.
It's good to see his station doing well and hope we can all be as successful, I will say that getting 3-5 miles on 1 transmitter is the goal for everyone here, if that is the coverage one wants.
Radiopilot
Re: I know the grounds is part of the problem
> > > I said *could*, not *should*. -- JasonW
> > >
> > > > > Well...in a 21st story installation, you could drop
> a
> > > 1/4
> > > > > wavelength counterpoise wire down the side of the
> > > building
> > > >
> > > > > (hookup wire or enameled magnet wire would do) and
> > > secure
> > > > it
> > > > > with a weed trimmer monofilament stay. -- JasonW
> > > > _________
> > > >
> > > > A 1/4-wave vertical wire connected to the chassis of a
>
> > > Part
> > > > 15 AM tx whose r-f output is connected to a 3-meter,
> > > loaded
> > > > vertical wire constitutes an off-center fed dipole
> whose
> >
> > > > total length is FAR beyond what is permitted as an
> > antenna
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Calling the 1/4-wave part a "counterpoise" doesn't
> make
> > it
> > >
> > > > one, as far as its radiating performance in the
> antenna
> > > > system. A true counterpoise will contribute no
> > far-field
> > > > radiation to that of the driven element, itself. But
> > that
> > >
> > > > will not be the case in the setup described above.
> The
> > > > 1/4-wave part will radiate many times more field than
> > the
> > > > 3-meter part above it.
> > > > //
> > > >
> > > A 21 story building, almost by necessity, has a metal I
> > bar frame. Use that for the ground/counterpoise. That is
> not
> > illegal as it is an unintentional radiator. (Pre-existing
> > and not put up for the pourpose of radiating).
> > The top expert engineer in part 15 broadcast engineering
> is
> > without a doubt Dave McCrork. His station legally covers
> > over 6 miles!
> > His contact information is on his webpage:
> > www.wnar-am.com
> > Rich Franklin
> >
>
>
> "The three WNAR transmitters are in compliance with 47 CFR
> 15.219."
>
> Dave McCrock is using three transmitters (Rangemasters?) to
> 'get' the 6 miles of coverage.... I believe even the SStran
> will do the same if it was sync'd as well.
>
> It's good to see his station doing well and hope we can all
> be as successful, I will say that getting 3-5 miles on 1
> transmitter is the goal for everyone here, if that is the
> coverage one wants.
>
> Radiopilot
>
Not so. Dave has an SStran, and dosn't use it as a final amplifier because of it's poor power ouput efficiency. The modulation and fidelity are good, but the modulation method impedes output efficiency of the final RF stage. It is INPUT to the final stage that is limited to 100 milliwatts by part 15, but it is OUTPUT that gets the signal on the air. 90+ percentage efficiency and no transmission line losses help a lot. Placing the final RF amp at the antenna avoids transmission line losses, and every milliwatt counts.
3 to 5 miles is possible with 1 transmitter. Dave gets out 3 miles with only one transmitter "on the air". The other 2 transmitters are used to crate additional signal in some directions, ovecoming noisy areas and obstructions. Elevating the "transtenna" (copyright 2005-Richard Franklin) 30 or more feet above the ground greatly reduces ground losses. If the supporting structure is metal, grounded, has another use, and is pre-existing, then the ground can be considered an unintentional radiator. It WILL re-radiate and reinforce the signal by inductive coupling and re-radiation. The additional elevation will reduce ground losses.
> > > I said *could*, not *should*.
-- JasonW> > >
> > > > > Well...in a 21st story installation, you could drop
> a
> > > 1/4
> > > > > wavelength counterpoise wire down the side of the
> > > building
> > > >
> > > > > (hookup wire or enameled magnet wire would do) and
> > > secure
> > > > it
> > > > > with a weed trimmer monofilament stay. -- JasonW
> > > > _________
> > > >
> > > > A 1/4-wave vertical wire connected to the chassis of a
>
> > > Part
> > > > 15 AM tx whose r-f output is connected to a 3-meter,
> > > loaded
> > > > vertical wire constitutes an off-center fed dipole
> whose
> >
> > > > total length is FAR beyond what is permitted as an
> > antenna
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Calling the 1/4-wave part a "counterpoise" doesn't
> make
> > it
> > >
> > > > one, as far as its radiating performance in the
> antenna
> > > > system. A true counterpoise will contribute no
> > far-field
> > > > radiation to that of the driven element, itself. But
> > that
> > >
> > > > will not be the case in the setup described above.
> The
> > > > 1/4-wave part will radiate many times more field than
> > the
> > > > 3-meter part above it.
> > > > //
> > > >
> > > A 21 story building, almost by necessity, has a metal I
> > bar frame. Use that for the ground/counterpoise. That is
> not
> > illegal as it is an unintentional radiator. (Pre-existing
> > and not put up for the pourpose of radiating).
> > The top expert engineer in part 15 broadcast engineering
> is
> > without a doubt Dave McCrork. His station legally covers
> > over 6 miles!
> > His contact information is on his webpage:
> > www.wnar-am.com
> > Rich Franklin
> >
>
>
> "The three WNAR transmitters are in compliance with 47 CFR
> 15.219."
>
> Dave McCrock is using three transmitters (Rangemasters?) to
> 'get' the 6 miles of coverage.... I believe even the SStran
> will do the same if it was sync'd as well.
>
> It's good to see his station doing well and hope we can all
> be as successful, I will say that getting 3-5 miles on 1
> transmitter is the goal for everyone here, if that is the
> coverage one wants.
>
> Radiopilot
>
Not so. Dave has an SStran, and dosn't use it as a final amplifier because of it's poor power ouput efficiency. The modulation and fidelity are good, but the modulation method impedes output efficiency of the final RF stage. It is INPUT to the final stage that is limited to 100 milliwatts by part 15, but it is OUTPUT that gets the signal on the air. 90+ percentage efficiency and no transmission line losses help a lot. Placing the final RF amp at the antenna avoids transmission line losses, and every milliwatt counts.
3 to 5 miles is possible with 1 transmitter. Dave gets out 3 miles with only one transmitter "on the air". The other 2 transmitters are used to crate additional signal in some directions, ovecoming noisy areas and obstructions. Elevating the "transtenna" (copyright 2005-Richard Franklin) 30 or more feet above the ground greatly reduces ground losses. If the supporting structure is metal, grounded, has another use, and is pre-existing, then the ground can be considered an unintentional radiator. It WILL re-radiate and reinforce the signal by inductive coupling and re-radiation. The additional elevation will reduce ground losses.
- Status