Taking the good advice of Tom and Bill into account and reading everything I can in my quest to make our Part 15 sound really good, here is another actual aircheck, after
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Rangemaster Sound Part III
- Thread starter rickityone
- Start date
Some how only a part of my very important message got sent, so here is the whole thing:
Taking the good advice of Tom and Bill into account (see earlier "Making A Rangemaster Sound Good/Updater" threads) and reading everything I can in my quest to make our Part 15 sound really good, here is another actual aircheck, after resetting the Behringer SU9920 and adjusting the Inovonics to recommended settings when preprocessing is part of the chain, with the preemphasis turned off.
Happy to report I think the "pumping" effect is now gone, as is the background buzz.
One of the interesting side effects of this effort is that I note while our coverage area remains the same, interference from electrical lines is more pronounced and background noise becomes audible closer to the transmitter than before.
Take a listen and comment if you like.
http://rickity.podomatic.com/entry/2011-10-02T08_00_28-07_00
Regards,
Rickity
www.gulchradio.com
PS - now that I have been afforded this opportunity to modify this message, the PodOmatic podcasts lose some fidelity in conversion from .mp3 to podcast format, I compared the original file with the podcast and also downloaded the podcast and played the original. The podcast sounds dull in comparison. Oh well.
Taking the good advice of Tom and Bill into account (see earlier "Making A Rangemaster Sound Good/Updater" threads) and reading everything I can in my quest to make our Part 15 sound really good, here is another actual aircheck, after resetting the Behringer SU9920 and adjusting the Inovonics to recommended settings when preprocessing is part of the chain, with the preemphasis turned off.
Happy to report I think the "pumping" effect is now gone, as is the background buzz.
One of the interesting side effects of this effort is that I note while our coverage area remains the same, interference from electrical lines is more pronounced and background noise becomes audible closer to the transmitter than before.
Take a listen and comment if you like.
http://rickity.podomatic.com/entry/2011-10-02T08_00_28-07_00
Regards,
Rickity
www.gulchradio.com
PS - now that I have been afforded this opportunity to modify this message, the PodOmatic podcasts lose some fidelity in conversion from .mp3 to podcast format, I compared the original file with the podcast and also downloaded the podcast and played the original. The podcast sounds dull in comparison. Oh well.
Rickity,
I listened and it sounds very good! Professional
You'll have to show me your setup next time we come to Jerome. Couldn't find you when we left the store, last time!
DE
I listened and it sounds very good! Professional
You'll have to show me your setup next time we come to Jerome. Couldn't find you when we left the store, last time!
DE
I really want to know more about source material for music and does any work go into individual files in the library?
The recording of I Love You, by People sounded bizarre, but I only "know" how the actual 45 sounds,
and it's a lot more full.
How about the sound in the car? More/less bass? Have you any continuous (knob) tuned AMs?
Still seems gated to me, like something is supressing everything down, like too much damping. Over-dried.
Something is eating up your ambience, "air" and openess. Or could be the radio.
Even small amounts of reverb present in the recordings still seem to be getting vacuumed away.
In "Who Are You" the quieter parts totally fall off. I think the level in is going to have to be higher
and something is going to have to squash a lot more, and as others say, doing it in steps.
I confess to hand-editing every file that goes into the sound library, which helps a lot to minimze variation.
The recording of I Love You, by People sounded bizarre, but I only "know" how the actual 45 sounds,
and it's a lot more full.
How about the sound in the car? More/less bass? Have you any continuous (knob) tuned AMs?
Still seems gated to me, like something is supressing everything down, like too much damping. Over-dried.
Something is eating up your ambience, "air" and openess. Or could be the radio.
Even small amounts of reverb present in the recordings still seem to be getting vacuumed away.
In "Who Are You" the quieter parts totally fall off. I think the level in is going to have to be higher
and something is going to have to squash a lot more, and as others say, doing it in steps.
I confess to hand-editing every file that goes into the sound library, which helps a lot to minimze variation.
I listened to the aircheck yesterday with my Bose monitors but I wanted to wait to listen in the office so I could have more than one listen before giving any comments.
The audio sounds clear and, what I would consider, under processed. I picked up what Tom was referring on "I Love You" where solo voice sings "and I don't know what to say" comes in. I own the promo single in my personal music collection which may be EQed differently but the solo voice sounds quite distant - perhaps because it's below the threshold of the 222 processor.
I don't want to lead you astray since I don't know what sonic signature you're looking for. I know some like that open, transparent and less processed sound. Since it sounds from your airchecks your format more closely resembles "classic hits" I always like a nice bit of compression along with a little bump up at 125 Hz for bass in the car on AM. Granted, I heard other music in your airchecks that I wouldn't classify as "classic hits" and it's possible you wouldn't want a lot of compression/processing on those tracks. This is where you'll have to chart your own course for the sound you want.
Since you're dealing with such a limited signal you may want to use some compression to squeak out the best coverage (which may be why you notice the electrical noise now - with more "open-air" audio it's not masking the noise by covering it. It will help your perceived coverage in the fridge of your signal.
As I write this I've reached the Boz Scaggs track and it's still quite pleasant to listen to without any pumping. I've jumped around the aircheck well and reached "Who Are You" where the soft portion is competing with the hum that's in the audio from 31:10 - 31:33. This is where some gentle pre-processing could improve the listenability by better controlling the levels feeding the 222. I skipped ahead to "Bad Time" by Grand Funk which sounds very good, probably since the song itself has some amount of compression within it, allowing the 222 to be closer to its "sweet spot."
While simply just opinion on my part, I think you'd be better served by some sort of level control, be it a Compellor or a budget musician's compressor set for gentle gain riding connected before the 222. I wouldn't fuss much with any sort of sonic maximizers with AM - I never used any with either of the AM Stereo stations I engineered and feel there's better methods to create a signature sound.
Good luck on your journey in the land of audio processing.
The audio sounds clear and, what I would consider, under processed. I picked up what Tom was referring on "I Love You" where solo voice sings "and I don't know what to say" comes in. I own the promo single in my personal music collection which may be EQed differently but the solo voice sounds quite distant - perhaps because it's below the threshold of the 222 processor.
I don't want to lead you astray since I don't know what sonic signature you're looking for. I know some like that open, transparent and less processed sound. Since it sounds from your airchecks your format more closely resembles "classic hits" I always like a nice bit of compression along with a little bump up at 125 Hz for bass in the car on AM. Granted, I heard other music in your airchecks that I wouldn't classify as "classic hits" and it's possible you wouldn't want a lot of compression/processing on those tracks. This is where you'll have to chart your own course for the sound you want.
Since you're dealing with such a limited signal you may want to use some compression to squeak out the best coverage (which may be why you notice the electrical noise now - with more "open-air" audio it's not masking the noise by covering it. It will help your perceived coverage in the fridge of your signal.
As I write this I've reached the Boz Scaggs track and it's still quite pleasant to listen to without any pumping. I've jumped around the aircheck well and reached "Who Are You" where the soft portion is competing with the hum that's in the audio from 31:10 - 31:33. This is where some gentle pre-processing could improve the listenability by better controlling the levels feeding the 222. I skipped ahead to "Bad Time" by Grand Funk which sounds very good, probably since the song itself has some amount of compression within it, allowing the 222 to be closer to its "sweet spot."
While simply just opinion on my part, I think you'd be better served by some sort of level control, be it a Compellor or a budget musician's compressor set for gentle gain riding connected before the 222. I wouldn't fuss much with any sort of sonic maximizers with AM - I never used any with either of the AM Stereo stations I engineered and feel there's better methods to create a signature sound.
Good luck on your journey in the land of audio processing.
Desert Ear said:
You are welcome to visit - just give me a little warning. This is a difficult spot to find. You have my number.
Tom Wells said:
The source material in most cases are 128, 196 or 256 AAC - "I Love You" is a 256 from an album "Lost Hit's of the 60's" - it was a hard song to find and might be remastered. Doesn't say.
Whew - hand editing as in editing software? We edit the ones that sound bad, for instance, songs that slam on because of losing digital remastering from vinyl - lot's of Pink Floyd for instance is poorly edited, or some digital recording just sound awful, Joe South "Walk A Mile" for instance - and if still sound bad we toss them and try to find a better base copy. Buying and choosing digital music/cuts is a whole topic to itself.
Slide tuners - a third gen GE Super Radio which isn't close to the first gen we wore out on worksites, sorry to say. The Tivioli's are analog, round tuners.
If you are interested, i could send you off line the original .mp3 128 recording - I think that podomatic podcast conversion process loses fidelity.
Thanks for taking the time to evaluate the aircheck. Going to respond to Bill's response with a little more info.
Regards,
Rickity
www.gulchradio.com
Bill DeFelice said:
My audio quality goal is to sound clean, clear, with good tone range. I would like it to sound as close to the fidelity of music sourced from a cd being played on a decent home sound system as AM radio can sound. Does it need sound as thundering as KCBQ circa 1972 or KHJ - only if the source music is that thundering.
As you note and I'm learning one type of music doesn't process the same as another and because we don't play one type of music, but a large variety and because we stream to further complicate the matter I guess this is a challenging task. But, and interesting one for sure.
You mentioned that maybe we should lose the Behringers and go with some sort of compressor/limiter. Then you invited me to your www.hobbybroadcaster.net site (thanks - great resource), which I joined and spent Saturday night until 12:30 reading.
Mentioned in hobbybroadcaster was a favorable discussion of the Alesis CLX 440 which jogged my memory and I went up to the radio room and there sat the one we had used in our earlier P15 innocent FM days (whoa - better turn that off). So, I am thinking of starting over using the Alesis CLX440>Amphex Compeller 320A>Inovonics 222>Rangemaster. Maybe slip the bass boosting SU9920 ahead of the Alesis.
By the way, also sitting up there from our old day, forgotten till now was our Orban 111B - which we never actually used.
Cheers to all, music radio forever and best regards,
Rickity
www.gulchradio.com
Playing a wide range of audio which has not only difference dynamics but different equalization is a challenge for many processors. No doubt that higher end broadcast processors would do it with horsepower to spare but those tinkering with Part 15 or hobby audio usually have to make due with something that costs less than $10k. This isn't to say it can't be done.
I would say try the Alesis CLX440 with the 222 and see what you can pull off with it. I think it would be a mistake to put it before the Aphex Compellor. Depending on your settings the Alesis may work well between the Aphex and the 222 but I would let the Compellor do your gentle gain riding first. I think you'll get better results using it first in your chain.
Depending on what you're trying to do you can sneak the Orban right after the Compellor. If you're not doing true-blue Oldies you may just want to apply it very, VERY subtle as it barely noticeable.
I would say try the Alesis CLX440 with the 222 and see what you can pull off with it. I think it would be a mistake to put it before the Aphex Compellor. Depending on your settings the Alesis may work well between the Aphex and the 222 but I would let the Compellor do your gentle gain riding first. I think you'll get better results using it first in your chain.
Depending on what you're trying to do you can sneak the Orban right after the Compellor. If you're not doing true-blue Oldies you may just want to apply it very, VERY subtle as it barely noticeable.
Nice sound. I remember the song "I love you" as well. Always liked it. What is the useful range of Gulch if I may be so bold. Thanks, John
I just replaced my Behringer Composer Pro with an Omnia AXE to feed my 222 and Rangemaster. Wow!! What a difference that made. I didnt realize how bad the audio quality was till I put this processor inline. Feel free to give it a listen. at klsr1650.com/listenlive.htm. The audio source is a Sony ICF-2010 tuned to 1650 AM feeding a Windows Media Encoder. Still very new to AM processing, especially with a tri-band processor. All feedback is welcome. Thanks to Rickity's posts for the motivation to improve the audio.
MS
KLSR1650.com
MS
KLSR1650.com
I keep forgetting about the Omnia AX/E software. I have a computer with it loaded but being a hardware sort of guy I always tend to lean toward external audio processing.
MS, did you have good luck with the AX/E software? Are there presets for it or did you have to "roll your own" settings?
MS, did you have good luck with the AX/E software? Are there presets for it or did you have to "roll your own" settings?
Hi Bill, I got lucky on the Omnia as I inherited a Wave Cart box that has a pro sound card with XLR ins and outs. I loaded the AXE software on that and it is now my external processor. I started out using one of the preset settings and am now in the "tweaking" process. I will post some pics as soon as I get it mounted the rack. Should be sweet!
Sounds interesting. I would be curious to see what happens over time, as if the machine locks up or otherwise has a tantrum. I know many audio processors have their own operating system of sorts I get a little skittish running something on a Windows box that would be considered critical that could just peter out without much warning.
druidhillsradio said:
With all of this messing with everything the useful range seems to have declined a bit. Right now it sounds good for about two miles then it seems to drop off in quality dramatically, I'm not sure what to think of that.
"Useful" might be different to me than than to you - I'm a fanatic and I'll see how far away I can be and get anything identifiable -"yeah! there it is, I heard our id, everything is working - all's well!" That occurs at about 10 miles. Mini-power radio DXing. A music lover-radio geek might start listening about six out miles, scratchy but there, in home fringe with boosting antenna or radio by a window, 4 miles, in home fairly decent with antenna 2 miles, no antenna - clock radio maybe a mile.
As noted earlier, we are on copper filled mountain 1500 feet above the valley below, with little electrical interference and clean skies (usually).
Regards,
Rickity
www.gulchradio.com
As noted earlier, we are on copper filled mountain 1500 feet above the valley below, with little electrical interference and clean skies (usually).
Nice.
Nice.
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